Bartimaeus

Volourn actually doesn't bother me that much, because he's more just the inflammatory type. I'm still not a big fan of people just being able to call each other Nazis at the drop of a hat...but these are the ObSSidian forums, so I guess it's the poison you choose to drink...

Yeah, when I quoted you, it gave me the latest updated version of the post instead of what I actually had visible. Guess I forgot to add that part back. Walk me back from the ledge? I literally totally and unreservedly agreed with 213374U's points, as much as I didn't want to. You know, these last few posts of yours have made me think you didn't even read the, and I quote, "[...]multi-page whining threads" you mentioned earlier. I mean, I can't imagine any possible reason why you wouldn't... ...but if you're gonna bother to mildly trash talk me, at least do it right.

But...I already said I was the one replying to Bruce most of the time in "serious discussion" threads over the past couple of years. Wouldn't that be me disagreeing with him if that were the problem? (e): Also, nice emoticon stealth-edit.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Triggers me beyond the capability for HAPPY thoughts, yes. ...But hey, if happiness is your rationality, then I can see that. I don't agree, but I can see it. See? Different thought patterns aren't the problem here.

What? I changed my signature from a bunch of quotes of dumb things Bruce has said to one of my favorite quotes. Isn't that...better? Unless you think the quote itself is related to Bruce...that's a pretty big stretch, though. Doesn't share my thought patterns? Well, let's see here...I am generally - generally! - able to make friends with both liberals and conservatives, theists and nontheists, people who are impulsive, people who are compulsive, people who are neither, people who are from my country, people who are not, people who share my favorite football team and people who "inexplicably" do not...even though I obviously can't share all of these traits myself...so uh, I guess I would need more information on the individual in particular before I could commit to an answer.

You're so good at summarizing what people are saying, Gfted. ...Actually, wait, that's not what I said at all. It's not like I'm going into every topic calling him a Nazi or something, now is it? ...Perhaps that would be a more effective strategy, though... No, I think Volourn's already tried that.

I was wondering where the "her" came from: took me a few re-reads of my own post to figure that one out.

Those are undeniably great points. Nevertheless, it has made for a completely miserable forum experience in regards to those kinds of threads over the past couple of years for some of us, which is probably why some of us complain so much about it*. *Myself almost certainly the most, of course.

First part more or less right, second part wrong: don't give much of a hoot if people don't reply to me. If you actually read what I've written in most "serious discussion" threads over the past couple of years (I don't expect you to, hence why I'll just give you a summary), it's almost always been to refute some nonsense of Bruce's. I'm really generally more of a lurker on serious discussion threads than anything else... Perhaps a just tad ironically (actually very ironically, I'm sure), he's the one that's generally making me want to post in those kinds of threads - just for all the wrong reasons, it feels to me.

Yeah...I get that. Guess I'm getting to the point where I feel like one of these people wanting to rip up the furniture. I just...we have such a wide variety of different people with such radically different opinions here...I like to see what people have to say about all of these different subjects. I don't like people like Bruce coming in to every thread showing the same level of intellectual laziness and dishonesty that they always do, and then using the same lines of logic that people have just eviscerated a dozen times before to derail the topic, and then having to wait until the discussion gets back on track again just for it to happen again about something else. I don't know if he's a legit troll...but the widespread disruption he provides in nearly every thread he goes into is as bad as the very best troll, so it makes very little difference to me in regards to the truth of that. Amentep almost always hits the nail on the head, so I can't really blame you.

Almost every time I make any post with anything of actual discussion value, I get a reply from Bruce. Sometimes I bother to click the little button that says "view this person's post", sometimes I don't - I try to never reply, regardless. What does happen, though - regardless of whether I view or reply to his posts - is that posts from him, and from a very, very few select others, are constantly changing the direction of the thread, changing what people are replying to. This might not be so terrible on an individual thread basis, but...I would like to go into a "serious discussion" thread once, just once, and not have Bruce's asinine thoughts bloating the thread and changing what everyone's talking about to be refuting the same terrible lines of thinking that he always uses and that they're always refuting. Oh my goodness, it gets so old seeing people rehash the same stupid discussions with him over and over across dozens of threads. That's what I hate: that these threads are basically shaped entirely around these people, over the same fundamental issues that have been fought over so many times before, with the same people even - even though they're about different subjects, subjects that might have been interesting...but no, not here at the Obsidian forums. And it's over literally years...

I've provided an explanation, not an excuse - though the two probably look to be about the same same without deliberately making the distinction. I've said in reports I've made on other people's posts that I would be perfectly O.K. receiving my own warnings if it meant less of the crap that I, once in a blue moon, bother to report. Still holds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guUS3_h2Ybc

Right...well, that kinda makes for a crappy forum atmosphere for those of us not particularly enamored by the idea of constantly mucking around in certain other people's...I don't even really know what to call it. How perpetually annoying and/or inflammatory does one have to be towards pretty much everybody else on here before the mods feel it's appropriate to step in? Judging by the fact that Volourn would appear to be able to get away with calling people Nazis in literally every single one of his posts if he so wishes to, well, I guess the answer is never! Boy, what a lovely public image that would make - everyone calling each other Nazis in every single post in every single thread over even the most minor disagreements. Yeah, I'm sure that would attract quality discussion - never mind new users. Well, the nonsensical sentence structure aside, why is it only about companies? Like, I literally don't think I've ever seen any other anti-trolling rule ever be limited to companies. That's just silly. How often do people troll in that very specific manner? ...Probably not never, but certainly less in most other common ways of trolling!

Gorth, I don't think that's really fair. Calvin and Susie were usually much more rational and courteous to each other than this!

Yeah, I don't really want to go to either of those, as I'm a bit of an in-betweener politically speaking, so it sounds like I'd probably get banned from both for being a "dissenting" "troll". But anyways, @you and @Meshugger, it's not dissenting opinions I mind - like I said before, I disagree with virtually everyone on here about at least a few things, yourselves included. That doesn't really bother me - I respect most people's opinions and life experiences, even (and maybe especially) when they differ from mine. As I've tried to make clear in previous posts, that's just not really what I find to be the issue for me here on the Obsidian forums...

Maybe I should've just said "Bill Clinton has been pretty loyal to the Democratic Party"...I guess that doesn't guarantee much about Hillary.

If she was indicted by Obama's DoJ, though, it would likely mean there's no party support behind her, and no faith in her candidacy. The Clintons, if nothing else, have been pretty loyal to the Democratic Party - I don't think she'd push ahead with her candidacy knowing it was suicide for the party.

Yeah, the whole money issue still being a problem for the vast majority of players is kind of embarrassing. The health issues being hushed up for so long is pretty embarrassing. The fact that way too many of us treat this game like it's some holy ritual and act accordingly is absolutely embarrassing. ...But we're still fans.

Eh, your brain (and its comparatively good health) would probably thank you for not being in the NFL. Your wallet, on the other hand...

All we need is a major gaffe for Hillary and he can do it. Would that be a bigger upset than Leicester winning the EPL? I don't know but it would make me laugh. Leicester winning the EPL had 1 to 5000 odds. They're calling it literally the biggest upset of its kind in all of modern sporting history, so probably not. I think Bernie's odds are a little bit better than that...but it's effectively nearly as impossible.

Hah. Yeah, so basically, I can't participate in the political or otherwise serious discussions because these people are always in them and always domineering discussion and people are always replying to and shaping the discussion around their posts. Fun.

You're a pretty different kind of troll from the others - there are different kinds - but if it makes you feel better to call me a troll back, well...

That's the beauty of the situation. Forums always have armchair moderators, each with an ironclad vision of "how stuff should be done". The hilarious twist this time is that their behavior (and others) is simultaneously the genesis of the "problems" (because they decided there is a problem) AND the results. Since were not hard enough on them they lose the ability to communicate in a civil manner. Or something. We try to keep things loose and this is not an echo chamber where we all have to agree. All opinions are welcome within the forum rules. We cannot read every post in every thread so if a post offends your sensibilities please feel free to make use of the Report button conveniently located at the bottom of every post, and we will take it into consideration. What? Alum and I have already stated what we believe the problem to be - the lack of strong rules regarding basic civility, and the lack of enforcement on what is already there. I mean, c'mon, read the anti-trolling rule - it's a complete joke, and is basically inoperable. The anti-harassment rule? Better, but still pretty weak - only the first two sentences are of actually any use, and even those aren't hardly ever enforced. So what's the result? Simple: you get a bunch of trolls or frequently troll-like people such as Bruce and Obyknven and Volourn and...who are able to freely peddle their nonsense and/or literally perpetually terrible behavior up and down the forums, and then, as a result of being around these people for a prolonged period of time, you get the malcontents like Aluminium, KaineParker, and I that are just so sick of these people that we just stop giving a crap about rules that either aren't there or aren't really enforced. I frequently disagree with the vast majority of the people on these forums on pretty much every issue imaginable...there are only a few people who literally never, ever conduct themselves in an even half-way courteous manner, and there are only a few people who are just so intellectually lazy and intellectually dishonest that there's no point in even trying to have a discussion with them - all the times we've tried, we've been stung...and yet, they keep spewing their baloney bullcrap all over the forums constantly, eliciting replies from others in these faux "serious" "discussion" threads, both of which change the direction/focus of the thread and make it an unbearable and useless mess. It just gets old. I honestly don't even know why I bother at this point. Maybe I shouldn't, and should just stick to the less serious threads I like such as the NFL threads and stuff in the tech section.

Our behavior (and other's) is more a SYMPTOM of the/a problem than anything else.