Mad_Scientist

True. as I mentioned, the was the influence system works does make sense from a story perspective. Despite that, I still wish it felt a bit more involved. Call me picky, I guess. And for future games where the main character doesn't have an unusual ability to influence others like the Exile does, some changes to the influence system would be nice.

Eh, I can't remember them all, but next time you play through the game, keep an eye out for the hydrospanners... and you'll see it.... you'll see it! :ph34r: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Slowly back away from the machine... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did you miss my other post? The evidence is there! The proof!

Good question. It seems quite versitile, whatever it is. It can fix hyperdrives, repair communication devices, repair or strip down droids, and even double as a torture device. :D

then get a better computer <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Umn... just because someone is having problems running KotOR II doesn't mean they have a bad computer. And while I understand why someone might get tired of all the posts about the patch that are made, dismissing everyone who's had a problem with the game, as you seem to be doing, is pretty absurd.

they probably just have a sucky computer they shoulda gotten the xbox version <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Perhaps they don't have an Xbox?

Well, it's just mentioned an aweful lot. Each example by itself is nothing, but all of them together... (Minor spoilers below, so beware.) Like when you ask Bao-Dur about his arm, and he makes a joke about how it kept dropping his hydrospanner. Or on Nar Shaddaa, Tien(Is that his name) keeps mentioning a hydrospanner. "Where's my hydrospanner?", "If you use the workbench, make sure you put the hydrospanner back in its proper place", stuff like that. Or on Dxun, the mandolorian who's repairing things mentions stuff about hydrospanners. Something about how he was "never very good with a hydrospanner", I think. And isn't there an option for you to say something like "I'm very good with a hydrospanner, let me help"? Isn't there also something about using a hydrospanner to smash motivators on something? Can't quite remember where this occured, though. Not to mention the whole hydrospanner quest on Dantooine. And don't forget how when you fail to repair T3 at certain times, you can say something like "Whoops! Must have left my hydrospanner in there!" And also, when you install the pasifist package in HK-47, he mentions something like "Be careful, I have seen how you use a hydrospanner" Seems like I'm forgetting some. Edit: I also forgot, hydospanners are even in some of the cut content. In the HK-Factory quest that was cut, for example. One of the droids there was apparently supposed to help train droids for torture. This particular droid had a few programming issues, it seems, and mentions something about "Do not spare the fusion torch or hydrospanner!" in a deranged voice. Hydrospanners as torture implements... they're everywhere!

Eh, I can't remember them all, but next time you play through the game, keep an eye out for the hydrospanners... and you'll see it.... you'll see it! :ph34r:

Is it just me, or does Obsidian have a creepy and disturbing obsession with hydrospanners? Playing through KotOR II, I've noticed that they are mentioned entirely too many times, and in weird cases. I'm telling you, there's something wrong here...

Patch... what is this patch you speak of? That name, it sounds familar... I'm sure I've heard of a "patch" before, but where? Isn't it some mythological creature? Edit: Yes, I remember the story now. A peasant and his family were being threatened by a hideous monster. This monster was very unstable, and commanded an army of horrible giant bloodthirsty bugs. He also carried a big sword and was fond of cutting things. After threatening the poor peasant, this monster promised to return and destroy him and his family. The peasant didn't know what to do, but then the Patch came. An incredibly powerful being, the Patch had a special talent for destroying bugs. It was even rumored, or perhaps at least hoped, that this Patch had the ability to heal cuts and other minor wounds. The Patch promised to protect the peasant and is family when the monster returned. But sadly, the as the date of the promised return of the monster came, the Patch got distracted. Held up, it was unable to reach the peasant's house in time. The peasant and his family were devoured by the monster's army of bugs... :D

I'm not "missing out" so much as simply waiting. The game will still be there when the patch comes out, just (hopefully) less buggy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is definitely true. Even if no new content is added, the patch should make the game more stable, and also hopefully fix some of those odd scripting errors and other issues.

Well, if I ever become a game tester, I think I will remember NOT to apply for a job at Obsidian. Though then again, it could have some nice perks if my coworkers annoyed me.

hope you're right, I didn't know about the voices recorded <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Some voices are recorded, at least, but there didn't seem to be quite enough to make everything flow together properly. At least from what I had heard.

It's not so much that there is no market, it's just a market that many publishers don't understand and there is a stigma about making PC only games right now. I've seen this happen a lot in the industry over the past 10 years. People were more interested in buying a crappy CD-ROM game than a floppy game, a poor looking 3D game compared to a 2D game, a boring real-time game compared to an engaging turn-based game, etc... Unfortunately publishers like to fund what is currently fashionable because they see that as safe. That's why I said we would probably have to fund a game like ourselves. I think there is a market, but I don't have the $2M it would take to make the game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That reminds me of a recent rant I read that was part of the GDC. I don't remember it exactly right now, but it involved funding for games, and the issues that arise when there is only one real method of funding game development. (Publishers)

That reminded me of a CSI episode. It starred Tony Hawk and was about one beta tester killing another one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Never saw that one myself. Interesting. We can only hope that no Obsidian testers kill each other...

(Minor spoilers in this post, just to warn people) During the development of KotOR II, of all the new features that had been announced for the game, influence was by far my favorite. Being able to corrupt/redeem party members just sounded so cool. While the way influence was actually implemented in KotOR II isn't bad, there are some ways it could be improved in future games. It's a very cool idea, so as Obsidian's experience grows, I'm hoping they will be able to expand upon it and make it something really, really cool. Before I discuss my ideas for improving influence, I should mention something that does relate to it a little, and that is that I think a poster named Orchomene made a very good point about spoken dialogue a while back. That while good voice acting can really help a game's story and immersion, it may sometimes tend to hold back that game's conversation complexity. In a game with little or no spoken dialogue, there is small limit to how long, complex, and varied conversations can be. But when every single line of dialogue has to be recorded... Some of these ideas I'm listing below aren't necessarily super hard from a programming or design standpoint, but they would greatly increase the amount of dialogue. Would they be feasible for a game with all dialogue spoken? I have no idea. But I might as well mention them. One thing about influence that could stand to change is that, especially in some cases in KotOR II, it is too easy to unlock all of a characters conversation options very quickly. While KotOR I's "go up a level and hear more backstory" system may not have been the best, at least it did tend to ensure that the character development of your party members was pretty evenly spread out over a large portion of the game. In KotOR II, I can achieve max influence with Visas and hear pretty much her entire backstory as soon as she joins my party if I choose the right conversation options. (On another, related note, some of the characters in KotOR II didn't seem to have very long backstories when compared to other characters in the game or when compared to some of the characters from KotOR I. Though this may be related to the issue I mentioned about voice acting, combined with a limited dev time.) So for future cases where some sort of influence system is used, it would be nice if there could be a way to ensure that you don't exhaust all your conversation options early. Perhaps level requirements or something similar. Or perhaps something like with the Handmaiden in KotOR II: she wouldn't answer your final questions until you had finished sparing with her, and you had to wait a while before you could complete all the sparring matches. Corrupting Mission Vao, or how I first thought influence would be: In KotOR I, there were several cases where certain conversation options with Mission implied that you were having an effect on her outlook on life. Or more specifically, there were several cases where it seemed like you could corrupt her. So when I played DS in KotOR, I made it my mission(no pun intended) to see if I could twist Mission from an innocent girl into a deranged killer. I had her with me when I was given the offer to betray Gadden Thek, (Was that his name?) and also later when I did indeed kill her old mentor, I used her brother to increase her distrust and hatred. But sadly, none of these things affected her alignment, only mine, and at the end of the game I was still forced to kill her. So when I first heard about the influence system in KotOR II, I was like "Yay! Now I can corrupt my party members... err, and redeem them too." And while that is the case in KotOR II, and while the redemption of Visas was one of my favorite things from KotOR II, it didn't feel quite as involved as I would have hoped. This is because once you get enough influence with a character, their alignment just changes automatically based on your alignment. While this does make sense from a story perspective, given the Exile's ability to make force bonds and effect others, as I previously mentioned, it doesn't feel quite as involved as I had first hoped influence would be. What I had really hoped for was something like with Mission in the first game, but expanded a bit and now actually effecting the alignments of party members. Let's use Visas as an example of how I imagine this might work. Let's say I've just gained some influence with her, and therefore, her alignment has changed a bit towards mine. But it's only changed a little bit. The really big alignment changes with Visas will occur because my influence with her has just started to unlock special conversation options with her. When I talk to her right now, for example, I notice this option: "[Alignment]You mentioned once that there are many types of hate. Tell me about your hate." This allows me to have a discussion with Visas about the nature of hate, and her hate, etc. This time I'm LS, so I start to help her let go of some of her hate. At the end of our conversation, the message "Light points gained: Visas" appears, and I notice that her alignment has now changed a decent amount. This actually isn't really that different from the current system. In the current system, as I gain influence with someone, their alignment will change toward mine quite a bit. In the system I'm proposing, as I gain influence with someone, their alignment will change towards mine a little bit, but I will unlock new conversation options that will cause their alignment to change towards mine quite a bit. Not really that different in effect, but it would make the redemption/corruption of party members even cooler, as well as provide a lot more depth to each party member. Of course, there are issues with this. While the actually scripting/programming of this doesn't seem like it would be that much harder than other conversations, (though making sure the alignment options are unlocked at the proper times would take some refinement) the amount of recorded dialogue needed would increase greatly. Still, if Obsidian could do something like this in their future RPG's, I'd be very pleased. Some other ideas I have about inlfuence: Assuming future Obsidian games with an influence system have charasma/persuade or something similar, I think it would be nice if those at least had a minor effect on the way influence worked. My current idea would be for charisma to add some modifiers to the amount of influence you gain/lose and the starting amount of influence you have with a companion. So if a certain party member joined me with a base influence of 50, and I have high charisma, it might boost my starting influence with this guy to 55. And when I do something to gain influence with him, the amount I gain would be slightly higher than normal because of my high charasima. When I do something to lose influence with him, the amount would be slightly lower, etc. Persuade could perhaps effect your ability to altar your companions' alignment. Using my previous idea for [Alignment] conversation options or something similar, a high persuade would slightly increase the LS/DS or Good/Evil points my party members would earn as a result of those conversations. I also have some ideas about earning influence. It would be nice if a party member's current LS/DS alignment could have some effect on the things that earns influence with him/her. While the base personality of a party member probably wouldn't and shouldn't change (So for example, Handmaiden might always prefer more straigtforward methods and dislike deception, even as a deranged evil killer), it would be nice if there could be some variation in the way directly evil/good acts affect a particular party member. This would be very complex to do, and could also cause some potential issues, but I figure I might as well throw the idea out at least. Another thing that would be nice would be for the whole influence thing to be deeper and last longer. As mentioned previously, with some party members especially, it is easy to gain max influence. So making the amount of influence you can gain with each party member higher and adding more influence-unlocked things would be nice. Also, as I understand it, certain conversations/events only occur in KotOR II when the player has a higher influence with a particular party member than another. And there was going to be even more of these situations at one time. But if it is too easy to max out influence with all of those party members, issues can occur. Perhaps they should even get rid of a maximum influence amount. Make it where even after I reach enough influence with someone to unlock everything, I can still gain more. That would ensure that it would be hard for a player to simply have an equal amount of influence with everybody. I also have some ideas about gaining influence. First, I think it would be cool if minor amounts of influence could be gotten with someone just by fighting with them in my party. After all, people who fight together and risk their lives for each other on a daily basis are usually going to draw closer to each other. This amount of influence gained wouldn't be huge, but would mean that if I always chose to fight along side one particular character, then eventually I'd start to get higher influence with him. Also, I think it would be cool if there were certain "total party events". What I mean is, in KotOR II, in pretty much all cases, I have to have someone in my party in order to gain/lose influence with them. While I understand why this is the case and believe it shouldn't really be changed a huge amount, I think it would be nice if there were a few huge events that would effect all your current potential party members, not just those who were with you at the time. For example, in KotOR II, the Lost Jedi could cause some of these events. It could be where after dealing with each Jedi (Either killing him or sending him to Dantooine), when I return to the Ebon Hawk, a scene would occur. In it, every party member of mine would be discussing what just happened with the Jedi, and why I did what I did. If I had chosen to kill the Jedi, then obviously there would be some issues with some of my party. This would make some sense, because while it is understandable that Handmaiden might never know about that guy I killed in the Kinrath caves ("You won't give me that gland? DIE then!"), it seems a bit unlikely that she would never know that I was slaughtering each Jedi I found. And finally, I think it would be nice to add some more events that occur as a result of extreme low/high influence. Possbily even having certain party members leave or try to kill you if you have extreme low influence with them. I apologize for my very long post. I realize that implementing all of these would be... difficult, but these are some ways I'd love to see the influence system expanded in. If Obsidian could at least partially implement some of these things, I'd be very excited.

They can, however, use more than one voice actor for the Revan lines. Just figure out what the character thinks Revan is a'la KOTOR II, then insert appropriate voice here. Ta da! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Or they could use one of the weird and twisted ideas I mentioned...

I'm pretty sure that KotOR II has already done that.

I don't think any of that was cut. I'm pretty sure it's all in the game, but it's not what people think. The first three sound files don't have anything to do with Nihilus as far as I know, and played in my game during the scene on the Ravager where Visas meditates and let's go of her hate. In that context, they're not really creepy, just a bit mysterious. I assume the last four sound files (The one's with all the screams and stuff) would play if I had been DS, as I believe an alternate meditation scene with Visas would have occured on the Ravager. But I haven't completed the game as DS yet, so I can't say for sure. I assume that "medsfx" stands for meditation sound effects.

No matter what they do will piss off atleast some portion of fans. Some gamers want Revan to be female, so if they make Revan male those fans will be upset. Some prefer LS, so a DS Revan would anger them. Some prefer LS, thus a DS Revan would cause backlash. The safest thing to do is do what the majority probably did, which is play through the game as a male and finish the game with the LS ending. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True, if they had to have a set Revan, then LS male would be the best. But it would be nice if they didn't have a set Revan. And if a set Revan is going to be used in KotOR III, it would have been nice if Obsidian would have known that when making KotOR II, and therefore could have avoided wasting time allowing us to choose different options for Revan.

Yah, if I remember correctly, there was a conversation option that went something like "What? Bastilla didn't follow Revan, she urged us to head the wisdom of the council." The way it was worded implied that Bastilla was with the exile when Malak recruited him/her.

"You can shave a Wookie many times, but you can only skin it once." Didnt someone say something like that in the game?

I don't think having a set identity for Revan is a good thing. They were able to handle an un-set identity pretty decently in KotOR II, so I think it should be possible to do it in KotOR III as well. Having both Revan and the Exile to consider does make it a bit harder, though, but it's still within reason. Especially if whoever is making KotOR III has a longer dev time than a year... The biggest problem with having Revan in KotOR III in any large capacity may not be dealing with gender and dark/light alignment, but rather Revan's voice and appearance. Appearance could be handled by having the player choose Revan's face from the same selection that existed in KotOR, (I even have some ideas on how to intergrate that with the gameplay) but voice could be an issue. I do have some weird ideas how to handle that, though: 1)Bastilla goes in search of Revan and finds him/her nearly dead, with his/her throat practically ripped out. Bastilla once again saves Revan's life with the Force. Revan can no longer speak, (do to the small problem of his/her throat being mangled) but now his/her Force bond with Bastilla is even stronger, allowing him/her to talk with Bastilla telepathically (Similar to the exile and Kriea). Bastilla serves as a voice for Revan in all conversations the player has with him/her. 2)Similar to above, Revan suffers a horrible injury that prevents him/her from speaking. Revan uses a version of an HK-47 vocabulator to allow him/her to communicate. (Ok, this one isn't very serious) 3)All Revan's dialogue is recorded using about 8 different actors/atresses. At some point in the game, the player chooses both an appearance and voice for Revan. (Ok, I can dream, can't I?) 4)They simply have to choose a voice for Revan. (Or one for male, one for female) Perhaps they could use the same people who did Revan's grunts/aknowledgements from KotOR. Anyways, sorry for going off on a tangent like that.

Eh... I want too many of those things. I want to choke someone with the Force, then stab him with my lightsaber, then have my loyal assasination droid finish him off while I send lightining into the poor fool's eye sockets ; meanwhile, my loyal utility droid is upgrading up my swoop bike, which I use to win a horde a races and then Force Persuade the people who run the races to give my twice the normal earnings, as Visas, Handmaiden, and Mira all look upon me with admiration...

Interesting.

A- Visas B- Kreia C- Mira D- Handmaiden E- Disciple F- Atton I'm probably going to embarrass myself with those choices.