alanschu

He's also stated that he's going to be playing PC games for a very very very very very very very very very long time. I'd be surprised if he didn't have the ability to purchase the game.

Actually, Hades has said specifically that he rates the value of his game based on the dollar to hour of gameplay. This only relates to real money spent, so if he could get a game for $25, he'd expect 25 hours of gameplay. There was never any discussion about the market value or anything of the like. I would also doubt that Hades constitutes a part of hte common PC game market demand, as he has stated many times that he would only play CRPG games. Although he's clearly not part of the common PC game market demand now, as he has sworn against PC games now for console games. Besides, Hades considers himself a hardcore RPG gamer, which is exactly the type of gamer that Geneforge markets to. The only thing missing, is the willingness to purchase a game online. However, I suspect this to be a convenient excuse simply to not buy the game. But to go back to the original point, Hades' barometer is about real dollars spent to hours of gameplay. KOTOR was a poor value because he did not get 50 hours of gameplay, yet Baldur's Gate 2 was an exceptional value because he got more than 50 hours of gameplay. Based on Hades' definition alone, he would need 25 hours of gameplay for Geneforge to be a good value. I don't recall a bundle, but yes you are correct. I never disputed that. Individually, each game is $32 with the book bundle, so you'd probably get the three games for around $100

What's a con?

Then why did you bring up all the talk about market value?

I never said it does. The only part that relates to you is you made a comment about how it costs $100 for the three games, and I said that you can actually get them for $25 each.

I still fail to see how this relates to people that claim to be hardcore RPG players that don't care about graphics, yet can't look past the poor graphics of Geneforge.

It wouldn't have to be $0. I'm sure many people could justify buying a video game for $1 even if it's just there. Naturally this would not apply to Geneforge. Most likely, he sees that the game would not sell for $50, which is likely what he'd need to sell it at to take care of retail packaging for the game. This does not make the game have $0 market value though. So? His game specifically targets that niche market. In fact, the majority of successful online resellers have very limited product selection and market to specific audiences. It's easy to sell someone a product if they are specifically looking for it. It's why Overture began offering reverse lookup tools to see what people were searching for and whatnot. If he was to try to get non-RPG players to play his game, then yeah it'd be more difficult. But he doesn't. He knows his market, and the games he makes appeal to his market. That's all that matters. The entire PC gaming market is NOT the market for Geneforge. The thing is, many people claim to be in that market (i.e. the "don't care about graphics at all, just gameplay" RPG fans), that can't look past the graphics. Having said that, I still don't know why this was brought up to begin with.

Then I guess the market value of Geneforge is $25. The product directly markets to those interested in very "RPG" experiences. It hits it's target audience right on the hammer, and doesn't worry about the audiences that don't care about the game. The majority of demand for a product like Geneforge is from people that want a hardcore CRPG experience (you could probably argue that ALL of the demand is for that). Geneforge has been a successful franchise selling at $25 so far.

Those words "vast majority" hurt it though. "Vast majority" is not all-encompassing

I think the problem with the colour analogy is that I don't see any reason why game genres must be static and non-evolving. Also, if the majority of the world decided to call red orange from now on, then guess what, orange would be the new red

So how do you determine market value of a game then? And why is Geneforge not market value? I think it's more than the technology alone, given the experience that interactive media provides. And what on Earth does all this market value talk have to do with those that state that graphics are irrelevant, and only the gameplay need apply, that don't play Geneforge?

I agree. I also make plays for strategic land areas as well, so as to being able to either use a city as a canal, or to create a place where a limited number of units can defend indefinitely. Units on the defensive in mountains with fortresses are pretty much impregnable!

I try to not get involved in these too much anymore, as I find it gets pretty subjective. Although I would say that a requirement for the marketplace to consider a game to be an RPG would be stats-based gameplay, in addition to other things perhaps. I can't think of any games that I would consider an RPG in terms of the genre, that don't have stats-based gameplay. Although I can think of games that have stats-based gameplay that aren't RPGs. So there's something more, maybe even a list of optional things, where it must have 1 off that list (whatever that list may be).

Games are more than the value of their technology however. I'm not sure what you're trying to say though. The Geneforge games sell for roughly half of the price of a standard game on the shelf today. What determines the market value of a video game though?

By the time Democracy is prevalent, few of my games have much for war in it as well. No nations really declare war as they'll end up suffering from gargantuan war weariness and civil disorder.

EVE is certainly a "free" game, in terms of free from restraint. My friend had multiple contracts out on him, and got a gigantic mercenary guild targetting him. The way he took out this one really powerful ship was fantastic. They were cornered in highly policed space, and since it was a Corporation War, the police didn't do anything. So they rushed him with many little ships that got annihilated, but didn't cost much money. Then they payed some independent guy a huge chunk of change to simply TARGET the big guy (since this would autotarget the smaller ship by the big guy). Given that he was instantly attacking anyone that came up since they were all rushing him like crazy, when the independent targetted him, he fired back. This resulted in the space station and the millions of police patrols to get pissed at him, and my friend got the militia/military take out the big powerful ship for him. I was impressed by his realization of the situation. I'm sure the guy that got wasted was pretty pissed

I was thinking the same thing. The main reason why I brought up Geneforge is that I know many people that claim that graphics are unimportant, yet have a hard time looking past the dated visuals of a game like Geneforge. Technology and nice graphics DOES make a difference in our purchasing decisions, whether we like to admit it or not. In fact, I'd consider Geneforge to be an example of putting manhours into gameplay over graphics. All the "RPG purists" have some notion that all that work on graphics takes away from the gameplay. Geneforge is an example of the resources being put on story and gameplay rather than graphics, and now some people say that it's overpriced because of the technology of the game. Not bad for a crowd that claims that all it cares about is gameplay and not graphics.

You could have just said every major console except N64 and Gamecube. Save you some time

All those that hate RTS games should still give the Total War series a try IMO.

I'd probably have to go with the Guardian being the best villain too. He played things very well and just gets foiled by the Avatar. Just another in a long line of interesting villains that the Avatar has foiled, but the first in the trilogy of trilogies where the villain was the villain for the entire trilogy.

I seem to have found ways to score already. Need to find a goalie boost, or maybe just find ways to limit my shots on goal. I'm having good games, but they're like 8-7. But I'm playing with 10 minute periods. I don't really like the 5 minute periods personally, so maybe I'll slow the game down in order to compensate. Mike Peca scored a Hat Trick and a short handed GWG against the Kings! Nice work Mr. Peca. Hopefully it's a sign of things to come :D EDIT: I like the fact that it's possible to get "lucky" goals now. Sakic scored a PP goal on me and it just kissed the inside of the post before going in. My first two goals Aebischer got a piece of it, but it still trickled in the net.

I'd post my registration key, but I bet they wouldn't like that :D I've only played the first one though.

There's been a lot of injuries so far, and the season hasn't even started yet!!