alanschu

I disagree. I certainly didn't proclaim that Valve violates its own EULA :D It's kind of entertaining in a perverse way. Kind of like waiting for what he'll say next. Building up a list of quotable quotes

That's the one that adds content to Oblivion right? Was it freely available prior to release? In any case, I'm not sure it would count, as it was made by the developers of the game. Though I'm sure there's an EULA violation in there somewhere. I just don't buy into the slippery slope that suddenly we'll have to pay for every mod. As long as game companies continue to make their games moddable, there will be people that create content that is freely available. A fanmade mod would not be exercising much business sense if they decided to straight up create a custom mod that has no history and just toss a pricetag on it. Few people would buy it. Games like Counterstrike, Day of Defeat, as well as Garry's mod have become markettable because they became extremely popular. No one came out with a Half-Life: The Opera retail release. It wasn't popular enough to be realistically marketable. Valve knows first hand how important the mod community can be to a game. I'll be very surprised if they start forcing mod makers to sell their mods. And if they do, the solution is simple...don't buy them. The same goes for any allegedly crap retail mod. As for the good mods, the second it "goes retail" is exactly the same as when it is no longer supported for a fan that doesn't want to pay. Grasping at things like "Well, he could be doing something else" is tenuous at best. He could be doing something else. If he really wanted to do something else though...he would. The only fan made mods I have seen go retail are high quality, exceptionally popular fan made mods.

I actually think the concern about piracy is for the most part legitimate. Kudos to Bethesda for being optimistic and taking the approach that should hinder the least amout of legitimate users. I suppose that that is an advantage of being your own publisher as well. It's one of those things that is hard to prove though, as the only ones interested in proving it are the businesses, and they are immediately discreditted because of bias.

Under the possibility that someone somewhere might actually think his argument might make sense. The forum is also a bit slow this time of night "

**** off you twit. I already commented that I could have been clearer. Keep grasping at straws and pulling straw man and non sequitors. I'd continue the argument, but you lost all credibility when you mentioned Valve can somehow violate the EULA that Valve created. (Since you want to be a nitpicker, you also mentioned all EULA state that you can't do what people like Garry are doing, even though I posted a line from Half-Life 2's EULA that stated straight up that the EULA can be modified under written consent with the Licensor, which is Valve). It doesn't help when you ignore huge parts posts. You bring in, and continue to mention, mods like Counterstrike as examples of needing to pay money for to play a mod, but just like prior to Half-Life's release, no money was required to play Counterstrike. All you had to do was own Half-Life, just like always. Many, many people legally played Counterstrike and never had to buy it. If you owned Half-Life, you could continue to play Counterstrike, free of cost. Not surprisingly, it's still that way. On a final note, rather than discussing the point after I clarified I was indeed talking about mods, you persist on pointing out that I wasn't talking about mods. You could have continued the discussion with the clarification given, but rather insisted on pushing the issue. To the point where you brought it outside the thread that it was taking place in. Show me one piece of crap, low quality, unpopular mod that went retail. Better yet, and perhaps more importantly, show me a mod that became completely unplayable unless you paid for that mod. Because Counterstrike, Day of Defeat, Red Orchestra (which pretty much exhausts the list of mods that went retail), and even Garry's mod, can all be played for free, simply by owning a copy of game that they were modded on.

And this is one of the first times A mod goes retail (without even allowing to play it without the original game). Which is the whole freakin' issue... I know plenty of good mods for older games; none of them who needed $ to play; and they all never will... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What? You make no point here. Expansion packs require the original game too. Are they somehow illegal and violating an EULA? Wow, mods have existed that didn't need money to play. Thanks captain obvious. And there will be plenty of good mods for new games and unreleased games that don't need money to play. Just like I never needed money to play Counterstrike. Just like I never needed money to play Day of Defeat. And just like I have never needed money to play with Garry's mod. I don't need money to play the Half-Life mod The Ship either. What mod do I need to pay for in order to play, outside of the original cost of the game?

Based on which defintion exactly? One definition of it is humanity, but usually in the context of "the human race," when referring to homo sapiens, which are a species. Are all the other definitions wrong? Go tell a zoologist how you would like to study the race of Dog and see what kind of response you get.

I figured it'd be a gong show you'd be proud of.

You're the one that brought it here Yes, I could have been more specific. But it was a point about mods, as indicated with the word "mods" right in the sentence. I figured it was obvious.

I'm guessing you bought a disc copy of the game then. That sucks. You might get lucky as they should have your CD-Key associated with your account somewhere. Another advantage of DD! (though I own a disc copy too :D). Seriously though, hope you find it. I've played through it twice as well, but there's something cool about being able to play the game at max details

Kudos to Bethesda.

I remember having that happen to me in Ultima VII. On the plus side, a game like Ultima VI had "time only moves when you perform an action" which made playing it on a faster computer easier to do (but be damned if you saw where that crossbow bolt came from).

He did.

Carmack did comment that they thing he was most displeased about was that shadows were not cast on creatures. The game still does look nice.

I read one once, just to see what the heck was in it. I did take a quick looksee over the Half-Life 2 one and quickly found that changes can be made to the license agreement under written consent with the Licensor (in this case Valve).

Getting us to do your own homework for you? Tsk tsk.

Because it's violating the EULA!!!!

Only to the most extreme graphics whore.

For a perverse sense of pleasure I get from it? I could ignore him, but I know other people won't so he'll still get his attention. So I figure I'll smack him back down to reality on the odd occassion.

You can still play the new versions of CS as well. All I have ever paid for was Half-Life. I've never had to pay for Counterstrike. But there's been a big discussion here about how DD is bad because the makers of high quality, popular mods are able to market their product. I said "Finally, only good, high quality mods will evolve to the point where there is a cost, since people won't buy ****." And he mentioned: He then tried to sway the argument about how people buy crappy games, even though I never said they didn't. I was talking about the free mods that went retail. It's a pretty entertaining thread actually. The doom and gloom of DD was quite hilarious.

Of course I'd do that, because I'm getting paid a ridiculously stupid amount of money for something so simple. A bit over the top when concerning Garry working on his mod (which is not a simple thing to do) for a mere $5 a copy. Nice try getting around the point people DO buy crappy games. But by this you haven't given me proof people do always buy stuff they like. Do people buy crappy mods? Since this is a mod discussion. I've yet to see a mod that was crappy go retail. Let alone sell well. I guess independent contractors are all unemployed. Valve approached him with a business opportunity. Garry is an entrepreneur. How many mods have gone retail without the expressed consent of the people that own the copy of the game. This seems to be the big thing you like to ignore, since you allege that people are breaking an EULA, when it's the Licensor that gives them permission. Ok, since you aren't paying attention... YOU CAN STILL PLAY COUNTERSTRIKE FOR FREE, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A COPY OF HALF-LIFE, JUST LIKE YOU ALWAYS COULD. The same goes for Day of Defeat, and Garry's Mod! In fact, with respect to Counterstrike and Day of Defeat, you still got all the updates and bonuses to the games after they went retail. I NEVER bought Counterstrike. EVER. But I still played it until version 1.6. Counterstrike: Source, which I still play, was included with every package deal except for the cheap Half-Life 2 ONLY version. Which is great, because people that are ONLY concerned in Half-Life 2, could save some money. I NEVER bought Day of Defeat. But I can still play it. All the going retail did for a game like Counterstrike did, was let people that wanted to play Counterstrike get the game without having to buy Half-Life. Prior to it going retail, if you wanted to play Counterstrike, you had to buy a $60 game. After the retail, if you wanted to play Counterstrike, you had to buy a $20 game. As indiciated by madhatter, Valve made an offer to split the revenues 50/50. Which makes sense, because Valve owns the license to the engine. They, as stated earlier, provided a business opportunity to Garry. But yeah, this is all greed... Greed would have been to continue to milk to success of Counterstrike which was selling copies of Half-Life, with no fiduciary reward for Jess Cliffe or Minh Lee. Not provide business opportunities to make money for these guys to make some money for their hard work. Cliffe eventually got hired by Valve as well. As did 3 other people that worked on Day of Defeat.

Which mods are you talking about? Are you talking about the premium modules? As I'm not familiar with too many mods that have gone retail that have had stories in them at all. The comment that BW quoted spilled over from his bitching that people have made mods such as Counterstrike and soon Garry's Mod (for Half-Life 2) and those mods have become official products for sale.

Some fingerprints might be (partially) preserved in the glue, too, if there is any on the external surfaces ... definitely whomever had motive, opportunity and method (ability, knowledge, etc) will do it again ... I would bet they live / know someone who lives in the building. Report it to the police, too; they need people to report all evidence such as this to build cases for later. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's no way the fingerprints would be in the glue, as the glue was only in the keyhole. Fingerprints were out of the question since they'd be lucky to find one of ours smudged on there when we took a closer look to see why the key wasn't going in. It wasn't covering the entire lock, it was blocking the keyhole. If I was to suspect anyone, I'd suspect the people below us, since they are the only people that we could possibly bother in our apartment, since we're on the top floor and the apartment adjacent to us only has a smart part of our walls adjacent, and it's our kitchens. Perhaps this was fallout for me playing Half-Life 2 until 6 in the morning?

You need look no further than the simplest solution to all of life's problems... TNT! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's DYNAMITE!

I'd rather Edmonton toned things down actually. This imitation of the Red Mile is quite annoying actually.