Zenbane

There's a difference between stating that a Barbarian is just "okay" versus what was actually said, which was: "BARBARIANS ARE VASTLY INFERIOR TO FIGHTERS/ AND ROGUES" https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82781-most-overpowered-builds-post-patch-202/?p=1745049 The reason the discussion continues to take a turn for the worst, is because ever since brindle made that terrible post, people have been trying to voice their opinion against the claim that this class is VASTLY INFERIOR. Yet as soon as someone makes a post on that specific issue, brindle topic shifts and turns it in to "OMG YOUR COUNTER ARGUMENT DOESNT PROVE BARBS ARE OVERPOWERED" It's quite the neat trick; one that I do consider trolling. Make a blanket statement about Subject Matter A, when someone counters Subject Matter A, make another blanket statement about how the counter doesn't prove Subject Matter B. Rinse and repeat for each letter in the alphabet, and use numbers if you have to lol That's the main reason I chose not to fall for the troll bait when brindle repeatedly asked for someone to post an "overpowered Barb Build." I knew that the real question is whether or not someone can post a build that proves Barbarians are not "vastly inferior." That's already been done, but brindle will continue to deny it based on his endless supply of red herrings. As for quality Barb builds (not overpowered), I love the options here, with a special affinity towards the Human Fireball: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

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Gairnulf was asking Teloh to post a build, although I don't recommend that Teloh waste any time. We already read a Dev post a Barb strategy that beats a Rogue: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82781-most-overpowered-builds-post-patch-202/?p=1746376 The point was proven, but you just close your eyes and plug your ears to deny it over and over again. It doesn't matter what anyone posts, you will find some way to type up a long-winded diatribe that you only "think" countered someones opinion.

I'd like to see you use a Dagger to Parry a Sword sometime, Crucis. Please post that video lol

Mate the more we reply back to them the more they crap on. Enough has been posted on here for people to read. They no barbs are inferior to fighters and rogues, everyone nows. They are just arguing for the sake of arguing and it's getting pathetic. People will be able to tell that by reading there posts. People can also read where a Developer came in and completely countered your argument against Barbs, proving that Barb's are not inferior. The only one "arguing for the sake of arguing" is you. The only person really backing you up is Gairnulf, which should be a strong indicator that you're on the wrong side of a debate.

What are these "different tactics" you speak of? You mean like, standing on the left side vs standing on the right? lol

Immunities, by their very definition, completely limit handling choices, which is the exact opposite of Variety. For example, if there are 5 different types of damage, but an enemy is immune to 4 of them... you only have 1 choice. Immunities guarantee an increase in monotony. Goodness, Gairnulf. You hop around far too many threads saying things that blatantly disregard math and science lol

Well here is why: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82950-starting-new-game-after-patch-whats-your-favorite-group-of-companions/?p=1746632 You play with a full NPC party. There's nothing wrong with that, but when you hire Merc's to do powerbuilds, being able to take advantage of a Knockdown becomes an entirely different story. So Knockdown wasn't "bad" ... you just couldn't take full advantage of it. A lot of threads on this forum have a similar theme. When you read enough of what certain people say across multiple forums, you start to realize that their Gameplay choices are the cause of their likes/dislikes, as opposed to the game mechanics. For the sake of Analogy: Imagine a post describing how Debuffing an enemies "Slash Reduction" is completely useless, as dictated by their entire Party of Mace wielders

I mentioned this before, but the Elder Scrolls (eg, Skyrim) has Pursuaion and Speechcraft. Being able to properly hold a conversation is definitely a skill in and of itself. Argumentative Speech, for example, can be taken in college. However, within the PoE Universe, I feel that the system is logical and works just fine.

I actually love pets. When I beat Neverwinter Nights, I used a Hawk as a Pet for the constant chance to Disarm! In a future playthrough of PoE, I hope to rebuild my dual-wielding ranger/rogue (from NWN) with animal affinity. I avoided it up to this point after reading all the posts around here referring to the less-than-optimal implementation of Pets. Hopefully a future patch will remedy that.

The Barbarian rant is "behind us" ? lol, the Barbarian rant has been the most prevalent topic in this silly thread. I saw how you stated the Knockdown originally sucked: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82975-a-closer-analysis-on-class-balance-and-the-203-patch/?p=1746537 "Knockdown sucked anyway, int is a dump stat for fighters so it's duration made it. Not worth using." So at this point I'm convinced that you don't even play PoE Exactly! brindle doesn't really know what he's talking about, and making terrible points about non-existent scenarios. Your post was quite excellent, but notice brindle's response was, "Wow. I got a headache trying to read that" Proof that his brain literally reject smarts lol Anywho, I'll go sit back and watch brindle continue to mutilate his own thread. Which, by the way, should be renamed, "Post something and I'll say anything to disagree"

lol, well Hatchets are easier to use as a deflection tool due to their physical mechanic. As opposed to a thin/smooth blade. As someone pointed out, Hatchets function as tools, not just a combat weapon. That Utility would explain the additional bonus. Small bladed weapons are not really tools. Sure someone could argue using a Dagger as a paper-cutter thus making it a tool, but you can literally find Hatchets at your local Home Depot; there aint no daggers in that isle lol

"It's a video game, it's not a logic game" "this latest patch could have been focused on more practical issues" So it's not a game of logic but a game of practicality? Hmm...

If you could care less about winning an argument, why would you bring up your Finance degree? Perhaps you are the one that has some growing up to do. Neither your bullet points nor your terrible attempt to use Finance theories have anything to do with Sking's Barb strategy post. You are purposely describing things in an over complicated way in order to act like you disproved Barbarian efficiency. Your need to win the argument and your failed attempts to disqualify the Barbarian class are transparent.

Just because you created a Bullet Point list of things someone may do while combat is paused, doesn't mean you proved something about this imaginary "cost base analysis" (which doesn't even make sense in this context). Also, typing a lot of words doesn't mean you're winning an argument. Did they not teach that at the University? Also, I have 2 degrees and 2 certifications in Technology, specializing in Software Development and Infrastructure Security. Just fyi since you decided to bring your finance academic resume in to the conversation.

Since Hatchets are small and deadly, you can easily redirect attacks; which is more on par with Deflection as opposed to a Parry. The smaller the weapon, the quicker you can respond to enemy attacks: deflection through redirection. Kinda like the difference between blocking a punch with your arms vs using your shoulder to "roll" a punch off.

You didn't justify anything, you just said your preference would "be more logical." Proclaiming an opinion is not the same thing as justifying the proclamation. Justification takes work, not just typing, "my idea is more better" Also, if you don't understand how you set the tone, then I can suggest some reading material: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/in-writing-tone-is-the-author%E2%80%99s-attitude/ As far as the system mechanics, it is not an issue of complexity, but an issue of personal preference.

Like most I restarted a few times, but I finally settled on a lovely group... Frontline: Moon Godlike Paladin (main) Eder Fire Godlike Monk (Juggernaut build) (Hired Merc) Second Row: Savannah Folk Chanter (Hired Merc) Back Row: Aloth Durance At one point I had a Death Godlike Barbarian instead of Eder, and it was fun carnage. But I missed Eder too much lol

Oh thank heavens, some sensibility to this topic lol I love my Barb, and pretty much abandoned this thread after all that inaccurate analysis. It's nice to see a QA Approved Barb Strat. A Death Godlike Barb with a Moon Godlike Paladin; quite the lovely duo. I'm pretty sure at this point no one who has been paying attention believes for one second that you would truly "love to hear" other peoples ideas on power builds. You seem to have your own set opinion on the matter.

Well Sens recently stated that he hasn't played PoE since April, so I imagine that most of his stats/analysis will be off by now. As for the original question, "Can anyone explain what measures slow/very slow/etc weapon speeds are, and how they relate to attack speed?" Personally, I would just keep different weapons in my inventory and have a fun testing session. Pen, paper, stopwatch... just attack and record the time for each swing, 5-10 swings per weapon. I'm not being sarcastic either with the pen/paper reference. I loved the pen/paper days of old (Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder, Shadow of Yserbius, Stonekeep, etc) At the end of the day, the stats you record yourself hold true moreso than someone elses post, video, or patch notes

I'm pretty sure if someone used a pistol to parry any of the weapons in this game (Great Sword, Pike, etc)... that they would get their face smashed in. If PoE does allow people to use Pistols to parry in the future, then the attacker should get a bonus to Critical Strike lol

Increased savings throws is a much smarter approach than simply smapping "immune" all over monsters. Sorry to hear about your experience going south, hopefully (another) patch will change that. Although, this is the reason I never go beyond "normal" difficulty in any game. I love a challenge, but I do not trust game developers at all. So when I want a real challenge, instead of making a single-player game harder, I simply go play an online PvP game lol

Actually, this entire topic existed in another thread and you purposely started a whole new Topic instead of replying in the appropriate location. On top of that, you are now resorting to personal attacks (aka, calling wonderon's responses "dumb"). This is pretty typical behavior of a troll, so you might want to reflect on your own actions before labeling others. As for the actual topic, wanderon is right. You should keep a pen n paper handy next to you while you play so that you can impose your own rules. Instead of opening up hostile forum discussions about how amazing you think your self-imposed rules are (and anyone who disagrees is dumb) lol

I had this same problem when I first started. I did not have any hirelings, it was just me and Aloth at first. However, I went around doing other side quests (eg, Tasks) until I had better gear and picked up a few more NPC's (Eder and Durance). I cleared this out with just the 4 of us, and later hired 2 more PC's (a Barbarian and a Cipher). Spend time doing other side quests to gain a little more exp and a bit more gear. Also, the only encounter that's really difficult in the Temple is that northern Whisp battle. Most other battles are easy to manage.

Exactly my experience. Surely this doesn't mean that PoE has to stick to cliche's or norms. However, when I read the patch notes for Fighters (and the logic behind it) then it seems that suddenly cliche's and norms become a focal point. Definitely agree on someone being protected by their devotion lol I would imagine that the only protection one would gain from this is when fighting against the Undead and Spirts (zombies, demons, etc). Traditionally, Paladins are better meat shields than Fighters, whereas Fighters are better DPS/Utility than Paladins. The offset to this (due to the fact that a player can build a Fighter to be a meat shield) is that Paladins get automatic offense/defense bonuses against the undead. This has been what saved Paladins from being completely useless in traditional RPG's. To be clear, I'm fine with the overall changes each patch makes to PoE. Clearly the goal of the developers is to enhance the gaming experience. In the end, it's a single player game where we can roll up a new PC at any point. Granted, PoE has an excellent replay factor all on its own; we don't need new patches with nerfs/buffs as a way of adding replay value