mosspit

Ok so.... According to the bundle files, 1. "DebugName": "Wahai_Poraga" (1700bfb4-6ca5-4789-988c-1ad629d2965f) is the entry point of the attack, and the attack has an ExtraAttack will leads to... 2. "DebugName": "Wahai_Poraga_AoE" (8266b7fd-87ce-44ca-ab11-ca11775c8eab) which is an AoE attack which does no damage which in leads to a RandomAttackAoeComponent .... 3. "DebugName": "Wahai_Poraga_RandomAttack" (5e0495a3-a335-46e3-aad9-f7a076aa7e2d) This was previously predefined to have 2 extra attacks with the max number of attack on a single target as 1. This attack will have proper dmg values. It should be fine up to here. Problem is "Wahai_Poraga_RandomAttack" itself has an ExtraAttackID node too which leads back to "Wahai_Poraga_AoE". So basically, it creates an "closed" loop between 2 and 3. Until there are no suitable targets based on the proc conditions governing 3. You don't even need any critical procs or full attacks to create massive carnage, you just need to be surrounded. The fix is quite simple - set ExtraAttackID within 3 to 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 and the loop breaks If anyone is interested, you can try the fix from here https://github.com/mosspit/df_wahaiporaga_fix

For those who want a temporary fix, pls refer to https://github.com/mosspit/df_rp_fix You can copy into the override and rooting pain should work as per intended. This fix did not include the status effect object governing the proc rate. But if anyone wants, I can add in that change as well. Cheers.

I mean ideally Obs would have tackled the issue of recursive procs in the manner of checking on the conditions of the originating attack. But so far they have made a rather "interesting" decision to control the input (in terms of trigger %) to the governing method rather changing the logic within the method itself. Leads me to believe they intentionally do not want to deal with the logic changes in the first place. Anyways, the best bet will be to fix the weapon proc for the pollaxe instead - Obs has already invested into controlling the situation in that manner. Changing the logic governing recursive procs is the better solution but it will be a tad inconsistent at this stage. I really like the idea of internal cooldown. But thinking about it, I am inclined to the opinion that internal cooldowns are more suited for cooldown based game play.

It was not for my benefit.

Well, I am well aware both upgrades can be gotten. But the fact is the 2 modes are mutually exclusive in their states. Unless we are talking about snapshotting the int bonus in before summoning is done, but I was hoping OP would be the one to point that out.

But then, it means you don't receive the Int bonus from Duality if you go Iron Wheel mode.

The real star of the DoC Breastplate is the recovery bonus. Seeing as how spell casting involves casting and recovery, DoC will definitely benefit a spell caster as well.

Indeed. The cheap and ugly method is the reason why we are getting things like "10% chance to deal X effect on critical melee" or "50% chance to do Y effect when being hit by a critical melee (Upgraded to Z if Critical)". If an effect is deemed too good, layer it behind a 10% dice roll. Hiding interesting effects behind layers of RNG makes imagining builds so annoying...

Not to be snark or whatever. But if there is already an issue with things like changing a proc rate to 25% breaking skills to lead to completely unusable state (no hyperbole here), I have no confidence in suggesting to add another layer of complexity in the RNG management.

Sigh, I was keen on doing a new playthrough on 1.2 with a Monk and Serafen wielding Wahai Proraga. With this bug and the fact they completely broke Rooting Pain (instead of 25%, it is completely disabled and doesn't trigger now). I don't think I can stomach these kind of issues. I really hope Obs can do something about them before public release, and not go through the whole Confident Aim fiasco again...

I guess it's related to this bug report? https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103080-wahai-poraga-bug/

So I tried out the new Rooting Pain changes (25% proc) but soon realized I can't get the skill Rooting Pain to trigger even once on a tanky character. Can the developers kindly take a look at this skill before releasing it into production? Much appreciated.

I can't speak for everybody else, but as far as I'm concerned the problem is not with nerfing per se; the problem is with nerfing stuff that never needed to be nerfed (e.g. Baubles of the Fin, all of the speed buffs, Wildstrike and Greater Wildstrike, etc.) and over-nerfing OP stuff so that it no longer adds any value to anything (e.g. Virtuous Triumph at 25%; it went straight from "must-have" to "why bother?") Indeed. Before blindly supporting the nerfs imposed, maybe also think about whether in fact the abilities were overpowered in the first place? Btw, the nerf to Rooting Pain is not 25%. It is 0%. I can't get the skill to trigger now. Can someone else verify this? I will submit a bug report if I find concurring views. Edit: nevermind, I will post the bug first. Unless you think the nerf to 0% is me crying about the nerfs to abilities.

It’s 100% designed for monk, other class will find it gimped to use. Right. I wonder why I clearly specified the case of monk in my post, in a thread for rogue / monk *rolls eyes*

Yes, if im not wrong Tuotilo's Palm also benefits from Transcendent's Suffering based on what I checked last. It is deceivingly good as a offhand for a Monk.

Does dominate works like charm? As in removal on allied attack?

Made adjustments due to Patch 1.2 Overall significant DPS loss but imo still viable in party play

There are opportunities for other actions once TWotFF gets into the groove of things. The good recovery speed coupled with decent Int can result in the following values So you can basically alternate in attacks if you want to (attacks using the flail and shield is pretty fast too thanks to the recovery speed). But for me, I was mostly keeping my eyes on the buff durations and alternating between Thunderous Blows and Enlightened Agony in between Blade Turnings. The thing is Sungrazer and Tuotilo's Palm is mostly for the passive procs which synergizes with Root Pain and Avenging Storm. You can attack if you want to, but it is better to sustain BT when surrounded. Nalpazca is definitely a strong contender. But I was quite reluctant to base the build on consumables as I am unsure of how the future patches will change up consumables. Main reason I used Helwalker is due to the Might gain that can boost self heals of Unbending and Contant Recovery, and of course damage. Plus the increase in damage received is useful to power Pain Link. I did consider Streetfighter. It is definitely an all-out balls to the walls approach, providing the best recovery out of other subclasses. Problem was survivability. It didn't have any good self heals for a build that is meant to sit in the middle of groups and hold position. And Blade Turning with Rooting Pain procs, while is okay dmg, will not kill enemies fast enough to avoid the need to heal up. The beginning of the game especially will not be smooth. Enlightened Agony and Crucible of Suffering can help with debuffs. Also there are self heals to weather the storm to deal with too much incoming dmg.

[CLASS BUILD] The Way of the Formless Form (The concept of yielding to overcome) Core Concept This build is inspired by martial arts style known as Tai Chi in which self defence is realized by the ability to react to an opposing force and redirect it onto the attacker. Seemingly, the Monk's PL3 ability Blade Turning is imo one of the Obs's attempt at representating this martial arts form. And this is in line with my inclination to create builds that has a retaliation concept. I have to put in a disclaimer to state I am in no way qualified to state and discuss anything pertaining to Tai Chi. This build is only my personal intrepretation of what this martial arts form could be in the context of Deadfire. =================================== The Way of the Formless Form =================================== Difficulty: PotD v.1.2.0.0008 -------------------------------------------------------------- Class: Brawler (Unbroken / Helwalker) -------------------------------------------------------------- Race: Pale Elf -------------------------------------------------------------- Background: Deadfire Archipelago (Hunter) -------------------------------------------------------------- Solo: Untested -------------------------------------------------------------- Stats (char creation, no Berath's Blessings): Mig: 12 Con: 13 Dex: 20 Per: 16 Int: 13 Res: 3 Skills Alchemy (max 10*) / Athletics * Alchemy is set to 10 to avoid overly abusing consumables. Potion of Spirit Shield is quite decent on TWotFF at Alchemy 10. Also this is an attempt to future proof the build if Obs decide to nerf Alchemy and one increase the levels to hopefully gain the same effectiveness. * Note: Patch 1.2 nerfed consumables as expected. So it is possible to bump Alchemy to about 15 without feeling too OP. Potions of Spirit Shield is too good for tankiness at a Pinch. Recommended Items (a=auto, r=recommended, !=important) Head: Heaven's Cacophony (!) Body: Devil of Caroc Breastplate (!) Neck: Stone of Power (®) Gloves: Firethrower's Gloves Belt: Ngati's Girdle (®) Legs: Boots of Stone / Bounding Boots Rings: Ring of Greater Regeneration / Ring of Overseeing Cape: Three Trolls Stitched Weapons: Set 1: Squid's Grasp (®) / Tuotilo's Palm (!) Pet: Abraham Recommended Abilities Level 1: Force of Anguish / Discipline Barrage Level 2: Swift Strikes Level 3: Lesser Wounds (®) Level 4: Fighter Stances / Two weapon style Level 5: Clarity of Agony Level 6: Mortification of Soul Level 7: Rapid Recovery / Blade Turning Level 8: Soul Mirror Level 9: Determination Level 10: Hold the Line / Thunderous Blows Level 11: Rooting Pain Level 12: Duality of Mortal Presence Level 13: Mob Stance / Crucible of Suffering Level 14: Unbending Level 15: Unarmoured Grace Level 16: Tough / Enlightened Agony Level 17: Turning Wheel Level 18: Falgellant's Path Level 19: Unbreakable / Heartbeat Drumming Level 20: Swift Flurry Mechanics Blade Turning This ability is not very commonly found in builds but it is one of the abilities that define this build. BT will grant complete immunity to melee strikes during its buff period. In the combat logs, you will notice that attacks onto TWotFF will be treated as though the attacker directly strikes its peers. And CC effects the would be attack would trigger will also be retargeted to the victim Rooting Pain Another aspect of TWotFF is to trigger Rooting Pain via skill and belt. Rooting Pain benefits from the Fire Dmg of Turning Wheel, and can trigger Sungrazer's effects as well as Avenging Storm. * Note: Patch 1.2 nerfed Sungrazer so Squid's Grasp is used to aid the survivability of TWotFF. Avenging Storm is still used to provided added DPS. But inevidently there is significant DPS loss. Make sure to snapshot Avenging Storm at max Wounds. * Note: There is also significant DPS loss from Rooting Pain nerf. There is more reliance to use auto attacks once you dwindle down the enemies numbers. Recovery Speed and Int TWotFF will benefit greatly with high action / recovery and high int as one will want to overlap the effects of BT to achieve near 100% melee protection. Action / Recovery to reduce the time between BT activation, and Int to increase the buff duration of BT. This build is also incorporates many self buffs and so high Int provided by stats and Turning Wheel can help with sustain. High action / recovery speed is achieved by max dex, Devil of Caroc Breastplate, Mob Stance and Abraham's pet effect. Due to Mob Stance, it is ideal to use Unbroken as a subclass for the bonus to engagement and AR as the recovery bonus scales off number of engagements. And for that Tuotilo's Palm will also provide the best synergy for this build. Snapshot This build has no issues with hitting 10 wounds easily. For that reason, the bonus of +10 Mig from Helwalker and +10 Int from Turning Wheel is very achieveable. Therefore it is best to time the use of Unbending and Avenging Storm at max or near max Wounds as the duration can be snapshot. Wounds Manipulation Against a large number of enemies, TWotFF will hit the Wounds cap easily and one will want to dump the Wounds so as to enable Rooting Pain triggers. The key to this is Thunderous Blows which is instacast. A cycle of TB and BT can drop the Wound count by 5, which will mean 5 more possible triggers for RP. Against a single target, Mortification of Soul can be used to artificially generate the Wounds and trigger Rooting Pain. BT might not be triggered consistently due to the Recovery Speed drop but BT will now also solely return the melee attack back the same attacker Enlightened Agony and Crucible of Suffering These 2 abilities synergize to give respectable saves on all defences except deflection. Soul Mirror can utiize the high saves to cause ranged attacks to miss and likely to be reflected back to the attacker. Ranged Weapon Attacks The bane of TWotFF is most likely ranged weapon attacks so as a seconadary weapon set, one can go with a Large Shield together with the Large Shield to deal with ranged aggression in certain situations. Other Synergies TWotFF works well with a Cipher companion due to Pain Link and Pain Block. Pain Link will add on decent amount of dmg as TWotFF will potentially take in good amounts of incoming aggression. Pain Block gives AR and healing, which is what TWotFF needs. Cons This build is quite micro intensive as it involves the constant juggling of BT which is essentially a short term buff. I will maybe include some updates on AI micros that can ease this aspect of this build. Other Notes I am currently running a playthrough with this build and will most likely be updating things as I do along. Happy Sailing! Note: Using Patch 1.2 for new playthrough

Agreed. I think the posters involved knows about the benefits of stats. But the main disagreement is on the term "significant". As the game progresses, the +2 will get increasingly dwarfed by the bonuses from skills, levels and items. However, the hardest part of the current Deadfire version is at the start where the scaling is adjusted a "wee bit" in favour of the enemies, and where there is a general lack of options at the player's disposal. In a part of the playthrough (at least on PotD) where you see advise being in the line of split pulling or body-blocking tight access points, Blessings is another option to make life easier at that point in the game.

I always like retaliation builds where you reflect attacks onto enemies. In most cases, these kind of builds are not as effective as pure dps or pure tanks in doing what they do. But for me, the concept of retaliation is very appealing to me. However, the retaliation options in Deadfire seems to be less abundant in PoE1 though. Still I am trying out some concepts. Currently using a Monk/Fighter and experimenting it along a proper playthrough.

Hmmm, is the bug (well bug imo) where low int means higher dmg per tick for DoTs still applicable?

I did not miss the point. This was what the description means/implies 1. Enemies attacks wearer of said shield 2. The shield will trigger a counter on the attacker of the shield wielder as a attack which will cause confusion on the attacker 3. The "confusion" counter attack does not land automatically but is roll against the defence of the attacker (should be Will in this case, but should check the log to be sure) 4. If the confusion counter rolls a hit or graze, the attacker will receive the Confusion status 5. If the confusion counter rolls a crit, the attacker will be charmed You are misreading the description. The description clearly states "receiving a critical hit has a 50% chance to cause confusion (upgrades to charmed on crit). Like I said it doesn't make sense, how can it be an upgrade from a crit to a crit? The description doesn't mention anything about hits or grazes. I am not misreading. Item description Receiving Critical Hits from Melee Attacks has a 50% chance to cause Confused on attackers (Upgrades to Charmed on Crit) If the 50% component is included, I will elaborate it as: 1. Enemy attacks wearer of said shield in melee. 2. Attacks from enemy goes through a hit resolution check to determine the miss/graze/hit/crit state of the attack. This is the Melee Attacks part. 3. If the attack is qualified as a crit, the following sequence is continued. Otherwise the sequence is exited and the following steps are not considered. This is the Receiving Critical Hits from Melee Attacks part. 4. Before the counter is even triggered, it first goes through a 50% chance check to see if the attack goes through. This component is essentially a coin flip and will not follow the normal hit resolution check. This is the 50% chance part. 5. If the 50% check is failed, the sequence is exited and the rest of the steps are not considered. 6. If the 50% check is successful, the shield will trigger a counter on the attacker of the shield wielder as a attack which will cause confusion on the attacker. This is the cause Confused on attackers part. 7. The "confusion" counter attack does not land automatically but is roll against the defence of the attacker (should be Will in this case, but should check the log to be sure). This is the cause part. There are procs in this game that also need to first do a hit resolution check before the attack resolves. This is the case here as well. 8. If the confusion counter rolls a hit or graze, the attacker will receive the Confusion status 9. If the confusion counter rolls a crit, the attacker will be Charmed. This is the (Upgrades to Charmed on Crit) part. 10. If the confusion counter rolls a miss, nothing will happen. Combat log should state that the counter attack has missed the attacker of the shield wielder. Look the description as I mentioned could use some cleaning up. But this is what goes on. Feel free to look through the logs. And to a certain degree, there are other procs that work somewhat similarly. Why must it be the case that I am misunderstanding the way the proc works? If so, do you mind explaining what is happening in your perspective?

Sure, description can always be better. However, OP did not consider that that the confusion counter has a hit resolution from what he stated. And that was what I was trying to explain.

You are missing the point of this thread. Read the description in the screenshot. It basically claims that it "procs confused on crit, unless it's a crit in which it will proc charmed". It makes no sense, that's why I'm asking if it's a bug or a typo. I did not miss the point. This was what the description means/implies 1. Enemies attacks wearer of said shield 2. The shield will trigger a counter on the attacker of the shield wielder as a attack which will cause confusion on the attacker 3. The "confusion" counter attack does not land automatically but is roll against the defence of the attacker (should be Will in this case, but should check the log to be sure) 4. If the confusion counter rolls a hit or graze, the attacker will receive the Confusion status 5. If the confusion counter rolls a crit, the attacker will be charmed