theBalthazar

QUESTION: Does anyone have the precise differential of DPS? (Math) Like that, depending, we nerf or buff... Simple : ) It will also be necessary to see if each style remains interesting. Problem that we will always have : The bottleneck effect. That's why for me, the two-handed style should always be stronger (Not equal in DPS but slightly stronger). If not, I prefer short phases, there is less waste. Like : 10 HP Left. My two handed do 30 on 3s Two weapons do 15 on 1.5s Same damages, but advantage to two weapons style. My first attack kill the ennemy. And I could go back pretty quickly. Loss = 5. Total damage : 25. With my two handed. Loss = 20. Total damage : 10. The best exemple of bottleneck effect is obviously arquebuse...

I played on the beta today. 4 findings. 1) At first sight, there is a gap between two handed and two weapons style. Indeed. More dazzling with a fighter. So perhaps a nerf. -10 % of Dual wielding seems to be sufficient. No more, because I observed the Fighter of the beta (One handed+shield) and there is not such a difference. (like -20 % that I see here and there) Don't forget : with and without style, what is powerful is the physical attackers. Use a mage with the two-weapon style, it will not do much ... Casters are weak, So the physical attackers look strong. 2) With the Fighter, seems to be weird to have 15 % damage for two handed style. The gap is widening here against two weapons style. So, to me, 20 % for two handed style is needed. 3) With the Fighter again, in his tree, one handed weapon without shield is the worst style, with 20 % misses to grazes, totally useless. We agree that all this comes mainly from the full application of the damage ? With the disappearance of a Damage Reduction. The new system of penetration being ambiguous if we exceed the value anyway. 4) So, to me, with a full attack, at least, two handed/one handed without shield should have a bonus in penetration. Like +2.

So you want a system with low cast time. Like wizard (self buff) and chanter (for offensives invocations) Totally possible. Let's take a possible new deal of Obsidian : Slow 8s Intermediate 6s Fast 4s Very fast 2s In my repartition of categories, Puppet master was Intermediate, so 8s. We down to 6s here, with a boost of all spells. Now, the recovery / cast time repartition. You want a good cast time : 2s Cast Time / 4s recovery And you have the effect after 2 seconds. (Nothing now) But I validate, for a spell that has only one target, and whose effect will be done afterwards, gradually, (a traitor enemy) 6s + 2s is currently a huge incongruence.

Extremely difficult to balance (and put in place). All is not as simple as "divided by 2". Because if you have this system, passives abilities become less attractive and you go to active abilities. Problem is moved, not changed.

In the face of reality, be realistic, Obsidian has created few "trump cards" in almost all classes. That's what makes the balance difficult (analysis etc.). You have to admit 1 or 2 trump cards and become hard with the rest. For example, the disciplined strike, objectively speaking, is totally OP. But if you put him back into the warrior path, that's his asset. If we do not see it like that, we can not understand the distribution.

Don't forget. This is not the actual statut of the spell that is "perfect like this". It is the category that is perfect like this. On the same way, if tomorrow, Obsidian tell : Slow 8s (6s cast time + 2s recovery) Intermediate 6s (3s cast time + 3s recovery) Fast 4s (2s cast time + 2s recovery) Very fast 2s (1s cast time + 1s recovery) You want at least "Fast" ? Fast become 4s with this choice^^ These lists is more for the logical of power/efficiency. Not the actual numbers precisely. More a "magnitude". I repeat it : if not, all spells what I have described would have been in red (and it would not have been interesting). Because 99 % of 6s + 2s is far too long for what they do. They are few case, where I modifie specifically the spell, because I imagine this after a general boost of all spells and I ask this question : Even after that, would that be enough? 1) Yes. = green. 2) No. = Red with a change of category. (Intermediate to fast etc.) This why I used rarely of precise numbers. But to resume, I am totally with you : 6s of cast and 2s of recovery is still way too much for puppets master and all his derivatives !^^ I'm just saying that after a general boost, there would be no need for specific modification. For exemple, 3s + 3s for a spell that is control the enemy totally. Seems to be sufficient...^^ Totally possible !^^ 1) It is a bug. 2) It is overtime.

WIZARD Finally, the Last Class... > ACTIVE ABILITIES (SPELLS) Arkemyr's Dazzling Light Good afflictions. Good category of speed. Ok for me. Proposal : Perfect like this Thrust of Tattered Veil Considering he cannot miss and cannot crit... 13-24 only on 1 target is not enough. Proposal : 16-30 Minoletta minor Missiles Seems to be good. Especially with the improvements of power level. (More projectiles) Proposal : Perfect like this Wizard's double Good tool, but there is better highter. will quickly become obsolete. Proposal : Perfect like this Chill fog Really similar to Sunbeam (Druid). He have more radius and more duration. But less penetration and less damage. But this is an AoE of 15s. It is not the same thing. Much more powerful. Proposal : Perfect like this Slicken Prone is awful BUT... Here it is a little bit different. The effect is recurrent. So is not completely bad. Only the category of speed is problematic. Proposal : Intermediate -> Fast Jolting touch Good penetration, damage, and good speed category Proposal : Perfect like this Kalakoth sunless Graps -10 deflection for 15s + correct damages + penetration 7 Proposal : Perfect like this Concelhaut parasitic staff / Concelhaut's Draining Touch / Kalakoth minor blights Same debate than previously. Almost all summoned weapons : Proposal : very fast (3s overall 1s cast time 2 recovery) Ghost blades A good AoE spell. + a little affliction for 12s. Proposal : Perfect like this Fleet feet Become greater than Deleterious because he is level 1... Good ! (If you don't understand, it is normal, wait few lines...) Proposal : Perfect like this Fan of flames Good damages, good penetration for this level (7) Good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this Eldritch Aim Compared to others buff, he is not almost-instant (it is a very fast spell) but this spell stay solid. Proposal : Perfect like this Spirit shield Armor rating + Concentration. Good for almost instant speed. Proposal : Perfect like this Curse of Blackened Sigh Sadly, the chain of "perfect like this" stop there. Ok this is for 20s. But without damages. It is an inferior category of speed. Proposal : Category of speed, intermediate to fast. Miasma of Dull Mindedness Crazy debuff of level 2. Wizard is NOT Bad. He is globally awsome, except the choice of Obsidian to create a general rule of too long cast time+recovery for all spells. the wizard is not last, it is very well balanced. Just do a general boost plz. Proposal : Perfect like this Mirrorred image A good protection of 30 deflection. Down at each hit, but great. Proposal : Perfect like this Bewildering spectacle Confused for 15s. Good. (and good category of speed) Proposal : Perfect like this Fetid Caress I disagree. Here there is a bad category of speed. Paralysed is very good but concern only the main target. No damages and a little AoE. Proposal : Category of speed Intermediate (8s) to Fast (Actually 6s, generally 3 ct+3 r) Grimoire slam Not crazy but do the job. What saves this spell is interruption. Proposal : Perfect like this Combusting wounds Good concept. I love it. Good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this Concelhaut corrosive siphon A special effect : corrosive damage on foe, healing on caster. Good category of speed Proposal : Perfect like this Necrotic Lance Seems to be a little slow. Good damages yes, but it is only one target... Proposal : Change category of speed. Intermediate > Fast Merciless gaze 15 % hit to crit for 45s with 3s of cast time. Pretty good. Proposal : Perfect like this Arcane Veil +50 deflection against Veil attack. Specific, but Solid. Proposal : Perfect like this Binding web Immobilized is good but not at the level of intermediate speed. Proposal : Category of speed Intermediate to fast. Ray of fire 50-90 damages on 10 seconds. Ok for intermediate speed. Proposal : Perfect like this Rolling flame Not worth intermediate speed. Damages are too low. Proposal : Category of speed intermediate to fast. Bulwark against the elements Crazy on a certain point of view. (Obi wan kenobi) Proposal : Perfect like this Infuse with the vital essence 2 inspirations for 45s. Crazy ? : p Proposal : Perfect like this Arcane Dampener Good tool. Good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this Llengrath displaced image Crazy again, Wizard have crazy self buff. Proposal : Perfect like this Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage 15s with 2 afflictions. Proposal : Perfect like this Arduous Delay of motion I think, this spell is overrated. This is a good effect but 1) foes continue to attack 2) Stride malus is almost useless. There is no debuff. So, personnally... Proposal : Category of spell, Intermediate to fast. Noxious burst For me, this spell deserved to stay at intermediate. BUT the penetration is a problem, as damages. Proposal : 28-38 (24-33 now) and penetration 7 (5 now) Expose vulnerabilities Same here. I think the category of speed of this spell is intermediate, but there is a lack of effect. -2 is nothing. Proposal : -3 armor rating -10 deflection Deleterious alacrity WTF ! : p So... if we are honest... The true and real effect of this spell is +5 dexterity. So +15 % action speed. You gain stride (useless), you gain a loss of health, and immunity to engagement (useful but... not... decisive all the time) So if we truncate a lot, stay only the +15 % of speed. ... Same has nimble level 1 with fleet feet. No, this is not possible, I can not tolerate it: p Proposal : Swift, -8 health by 3s, +10% of action speed. So, we are at 15 + 10 = 25 %. We are far from POE1 (no problem with that ; 50 % was too much), but here it is already more attractive Minoletta bounding Missiles Seems to be legit. Single class with improvements of power level will be insane. (level 20...) Proposal : perfect like this Crackling bolt 8s for 24 pts of damage. No... Very difficult to aim. Proposal : Change category of speed, Intermediate to fast. Fireball Not enough damage for this category of speed. Proposal : 32-42 Minoletta's concussive missiles Best form of minoletta. Good category of speed. Good damage. Great. Proposal : Perfect like this Flame shield Damage on contact + Resistance to freeze. Damages are not crazy, but the category of speed is so fast (almost instant)... Proposal : Perfect like this Confusion Problem here, 8s of cast-time+recovery for 20s, when bewildering spectacle was 6s for 15s and a little less of AoE (1.5 vs 2.5) but the difference is not crazy... Proposal : Accuracy + 10. Idea of : Yes this is more longer, but you will have a safer result Pull of Eora Ok 10s for this ? Ok it continually interrupts the casters. This is a good thing. But, for me, not worth the worse category of speed of all the game. Proposal : Category speed Slow (10s) -> Intermediate (8s). Dimensionnal shift Short cast time. Stun for 5s. Not easy to use but, balanced. Proposal : Perfect like this Minor arcane reflection Crazy. With a category of speed "almost-Instant". Great. Good tool. Proposal : Perfect like this Essential phantom / Maura's whrithing tentacles Obsidian ? That was my favorite invocation in POE1. I love it. But now... TEN seconds : p He served me well But I prefer to fire him now : p Always the same problem : you think this is cool to wait 9 seconds, with a risk of interruption. But this is not. Plus, the fight is already over... Proposal : Category of speed Slow to intermediate. (An invocation takes its meaning on the length of the fight, so if in addition it arrives at the end of the fight! ...) Wall of flame Same problem here, but worst, because for the first time, I will dare... Proposal : Category of speed, SLOW to... ...Fast ! It is damage over time with a "not practical" wall. If you are good, there is perhaps 2 ennemies Max on the line ? Not worth it. Minor grimoire inprint Good tool, fast. Proposal : Perfect like this Ironskin More than good. +5 general AR for 0.4s 'almost instant" speed... Proposal : Perfect like this Arkemyr Wondrous torment Problem here, there is better version at spell level 2 (Miasma). Objectively a nonsense. Perhaps I miss something ?... Proposal : Category of spell intermediate to fast. Duration, 20 sec to 25sec. Torrent of flame Not crazy with this category of speed. Damage barely effective. Very small AoE, and arround the caster. Proposal : Category of speed intermediate to fast. Damage : 45-55. Ryngrim's Enervating terror 2 afflictions. Not crazy again but better than the previous version. Proposal : Perfect like this Ninagauth bitter mooring Damages Overtime. Seems to be legit in terms of damages. Proposal : Perfect like this Form of the helpless beast This is only one target, and she can move. So... Proposal : Category of spell, intermediate to fast. Blast of frost Good AoE with category of speed "fast". Damages is sufficient. Good. But, Penetration is not. Proposal : Penetration 7 Malignant cloud bad 7-12 raw damages on 10s. Nothing else. Max 40 pts on damage at the end. Max. Proposal : 15-20 raw damage each 3s. Wall of force Actual record of the game. 9 seconds (Cast time) + 3 seconds (Recovery) At the end, we will forget our wizard on the battlefield We will all be finished except him. Proposal : Obsidian...12 seconds... Obsidian : p... Citzal spirit lance Ok, here a little new thing. This summoned weapon is slighty more powerful. So... Proposal : 3 seconds of cast time. (Between fast and very fast) Call to slumber For me, it is ok. Good effect for 10s. Proposal : Perfect like this (I hesitate, perhaps a little more of duration because there is nothing else, but its globally ok) Llengrath safeguard Great self buff. Only 3s of cast. Good. Proposal : Perfect like this

If it is a big and instant damage AoE with high number : yes. But here, no spell matches this atm (perhaps highter spell levels?). The promise of obsidian is not respected. None of them do enough damage to be put in, compared to physical characters. For Relentness storm. Yes and no. This storm is immediately problematic because you stun all the ennemies for 15 seconds. No attack from them and a malus of -10 deflection. The question can be asked.... For me, if there is no sufficient damage compared to the spell level (the case here) this is not slow. (finally Relentness storm is only "intermediate") But it all depends on the general distribution, which is behind each "category of speed". That's why I talked about category mainly, otherwise everything would have been in red for casters. 6s is really long for "small spell with small effect" The categories used to compare the spells between them, without ever giving a precise number.

In the thread of analysis I have found an interesting thing : Obsidian hate the upgrade. He create the better option first. Upgrade is never better than the base effect. (Chanter, Fighter etc. There is a lot of examples) Concrete exemple (actually) : Recovery of fighter = 5 HP by 3s. Upgrade = 2 HP by 3s. If I was in command (: p) I could be propose an other dividing : Recovery of fighter = 3 HP by 3s Upgrade = 4 HP by 3s After = better. There is a good effect : viable and optimal. Obsidian do that for avoid bad builds (= non viable). With base ability with the actual system of Obsidian, I have always a good "base" of general efficiency. There is a downside effect : Improvements are often not useful. (Exalted focus ? etc.)

Ah ah ah ! He remains extremely powerful AoE 2.5 m He Still have immunity against dexterity afflictions +6AR for pierce, shock, burn damage (it is 8 AR actually) +1 stride All of this for a fast spell. (actuallty the slice of 6 seconds 3+3) Not bad : p

3 possibilities : 1) Power like POE1 = not worth it. I choose Multiclass. 2) Crazy power. Like a relentless storm with 50-60 damages, +10 accuracy, fast action speed. Everybody Will go with soloclass (even Train again to take only one class when the group is level 17~...) 3) Average+. I say Multiclass. because the associations will always be better. Except if we go beyond a certain interrest. And as we saw in point 1, Obsidian is not a fan of overpower gaming. As the levels 13 to 16 of POE1 have shown us... ------------ So... Solo classes are definitely behind, except if you create crazy spells/crazy abilities (It will be necessary against a multiclassed) Except if you create a start of interrest. At the creation. Like an ability. A totally new ability. Fresh, only for solo class. An ability like arcane assault. A skill will evolve over time, since the beginning. Not really. With two classes, we have also more choice (panel x 2) ? And more ability points. And often two powerful effects can be found at lower levels. True. But 3/4 of the game you have a gap of 1 pt. Plus, objectively the difference is not crazy ... So, there actually 2 things in this game that are catastrophic : - Cast-time + Recovery of casters. - Single classed.

1) Nerf DW is possible. It is a easy solution. But you can also boost others styles. Like one handed without shield witch is the worst with Fighter ability actually. 2) Maybe with more favorable stacking rules. More is always better than less. The goal of the player is to find the associations that suit him best. Clamp, lock the system is not the solution. I want to see Boeroer's crazy builds : p

DRUID (MY FAVORITE CLASS IN POE1 : p) > ACTIVE ABILITIES (SPELLS) Touch of rot Good corrosive spell globally. I would have thought of more penetration, it is still acid... : p Proposal : 7 penetration (its 5) Tanglefoot Friendly fire + Dexterity inspiration level 1. Proposal : Category of speed intermediate to fast (Lol 8s in a battle for this : p surrealist) Vile thorn Damages are not crazy BUT Good penetration + AoE + Affliction + good category of speed. For a spell level 1 it is enough. Proposal : Perfect like this Nature's mark AoE -10 deflection for a good category of speed. Good for me. Proposal : Perfect like this Winter wind Penetration is not crazy... (to see in the full game...) Frankly. But overall... Hum... AoE + good damage. Borderline, but ok. Proposal : Perfect like this Nature's vigor AoE, level 1 of constitution inspiration. Good enough Proposal : Perfect like this Charm beast AoE charmed of beast. Crazy. Proposal : Perfect like this Dancing bolts Damages are too low. It is only damage dealing nothing else. Proposal : 16-26. Talon's Reach Obsidian seems to want make this spell a higher value (intermediate category of speed + More damage + 9 Penetration) Problem... Damages. Proposal : 25-35 and stay with intermediate category speed. (actually 8s). Sunbeam AoE low damage + Affliction level 3 Proposal : perfect like this Insect swarm There is a problem here. Damages overtime is ~50 but on 30s (Not crazy...). The AoE is very small. Proposal : Stay with these damages... but increase AoE where mosquitoes can spread (logical ...) Like 4.0m radius. Hold beast I always love this spell. Not useful often, but he is very strong. To reward this speciality (only beast)...: Proposal : Reduce the category of speed (Intermediate (8s) > Fast (6s)). Yes, it is extremely powerful. But it is only on beasts. Taste of the hunt When you want, you put high value with raw damages, it's not so complicated: p Proposal : Perfect like this Woodskin Crazy, fast. Proposal : Perfect like this The moon's light Good healing for good category of speed Proposal : Perfect like this Blizzard Penetration 5 is now not enough. 8s for these too few damages... Propposal : 6 penetration and category of speed intermediate to fast. Autumn's Decay It's me or Touch of rot level 1 > Autumn's Decay level 2 ?^^ But I admit, it is difficult to balance between them. One is a cone (5m is correct), the other is a little area of effect. BUT 8-14 VS 14-20 is not possible. Proposal : 11-18. At level 2 you can't do 8 pts of damage, even with damage overtime, when melee characters hit at 30 (easy, with a bad character and auto-attack...). Burst of summer flame Small damages but very fast category of speed. For me... it is ok. Not crazy but ok. Proposal : Perfect like this Firebrand (and like all summon weapons...) Not possible to spend 6 seconds for that, even with a general boost of all cast time and recovery time. So... Proposal : Quasi-Instant (0.5s) category of speed. At worst, very fast. But not 6s. Conjure lesser blight / Conjure Blight Weah !... Again... Invocations... : p Proposa: Category of speed slow (10s !!) to intermediate (8s) Spreading plague 2 afflictions+jumpx5. Ok for me. Proposal : Perfect like this Returning storm Except general cast time of all spells (not our problem) the category of speed seems to be good. Proposal : Perfect like this Twin stones Good spell but not crazy spell. So intermediate speed (8s) for this is a little bit too high Proposal : Intermediate speed to fast (6s). Stag's horn Honorable damages + Big debuff of -15. Good penetration and good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this Infestation of maggots When I tested it, I felt like I had a bug. Waiting for now. Proposal : ? Beettle shell Problem with this spell : generally there is an emergency. So, 3s of cast time is too much. Proposal : Stay with a "fast" category of speed, but shift at 2s cast time 4s recovery Purge of toxins Here there is a problem. Because there is two choices. 1) you stay at this category of speed. In this case, the effect must be applied to all the team. 2) Downgrade to very fast speed and stay on "one target only". Proposal : Druid is the master of poison effect and AoE spells... For me, stay with fast speed and add an AoE effect of 2 m. Nature's balm Personnally, I think this spell is a little bit too powerful. AoE / 18s for tiers 3 inspiration... with a cast time at 0.5 (quasi-instant...) Proposal : A little Nerf ! Up the category of speed, almost-instant (0.5) to very fast/fast. Repartition : 2s cast time 3s recovery Moonwell Seems to be well balanced. Proposal : Perfect like this Hail storm This is no longer possible to have 5 penetration at this level. Category of speed is weird because, this spell only do damages. Nothing else. Proposal : Category of spell Internmediate (8s) -> fast (6s). Penetration 7. Wicked briars If we stay on this category of spell "intermediate" (seems to be the will of Obsidian with a damage overtime+affliction) we must boost the affliction. Proposal : Dexterity affliction tiers 2. Overwhelming wave AoE + Correct damage + Stun. Intermediate speed seems to be in adequacy. Proposal : Perfect like this Calling the world's' maw AKA the spell the most nerf of history. 10s of cast (=slow category for us). Prone has been also nerf. And damage 24-41 (nerf). So... Proposal : If you create a Long/violent spell i'm Ok. BUT... Category of spell : slow -> intermediate. The spell does not offer an affliction strong enough to put it so high. Damage 35-52. And I think I'm Shy because, for 8s, I could go highter. Boiling spray Here more damage in 6s than the previous spell... : p Good category of speed. I got up a little the penetration. 5 is not possible at spell level 4. Proposal : Penetration 7 Form of the delemgan Powerful. Perhaps too much. Need a little nerf. Proposal : Stay with this category of speed, but nerf at 6 all armor rating. (8 is pretty insane : p) Plague of insects Good radius + Good Affliction + Good category of speed (intermediate) Good damage. Side note here : We do not get the full list of spells anymore. So, If I must choose, I prefer this spell than insect swarm. Yes, it is an another level, but we can choose now... Comparisons are more "lethal" now... 1 ability point is 1 ability point. I can take passives, and wait until this spell : witch does everything better. So be careful. Proposal : Perfect like this Relentness storm AKA the POE1 breaker : p Here, good category of speed. Good range, few damage (but not the main interrest). Well balanced. I could have nerf and send it to "slow" category honestly : but damages are too small for that. Proposal : Perfect like this Wall of thorns Potentially 150 pts of damage overtime on 30s (if I calculated well) + 1 affliction But it is very slow and it is only a simple wall (not practical) Proposal : Add +25 % of corrosive damage (only pierce damage now) this is credible and salutary. If not, Plague of insects is far better actually... Nature's terror Two choice here. 1) Stay with this category of speed, and boost the damages. 2) Down to fast the category of speed. For me, If I feel the will of Obsidian, they want a High level spell here. So damages must be boosted. Proposal : Aura of 12-16 (8-12 actually !?...) electrical damages. I remained reasonable... Cleansing wind With 9 seconds of Moon's light, I get 36 health. A spell of level 1. Just halfway. Here 28 health directly, but not practical at all, a big line. Proposal : Up to 40 health restored. This is the minimum for this level. Embrace of the earth talon If we stay with this category of speed. We must increase penetration. This spell lends itself to it. "stone claws errupt from the ground". And we must increase the radius of AoE, it is not enough. Proposal : Penetration 9 + 2m Radius Firebug Seems to be ok for damages with all the jumps. But penetration 5... At level V of spells ? Proposal : Penetration 7 > PASSIVE ABILITIES Bull's Bear's Snake's Same debate than others classes. Proposal : A bonus of +15 Wildstrike + improvement (all declinations of elemental damages) 20 % + 20 % seems to be the good numbers. Nothing to add. Proposal : Perfect like this

Yes To create a surprise, it must be new. Not a different distributions of spells : p (like priest besides) Obsidian must create the "unique" side of subclass and/or solo class.

Even in the first game I wasn't a fan of raw damage. I found it less powerful. But here, it is enough now to pass the defensive front (not impossible, will not exaggerate anything ^^) So ... The gap is not so big anymore.

Same here. Never used Paladin in the first game POE1. Because after a few tests, it did not suit my style of play. Now he is much better balanced.

CIPHER > ACTIVE ABILITIES (SPELLS) Mind wave Raw damage is not longer as strong as he was. So 8-12 is a little bit too low for one target... Proposal : 15-20 pts of damage. Whisper of treason Seems to be good in this "category" of speed. (See preamble of Priest : I want less Cast time and recovery globally, but/and when I am in this case : green (because balanced with the whole). And when I want specifically an additionnal effort : red and not green.) Here, if there is a general boost of all spells = it will be good. Proposal : Perfect like this. Valorous echoes 2 inspirations. Good. (Hence the need to boost the spells Litany/prayer of the priest in "fast" (our categories) Because they have only ONE inspiration....) Proposal : Perfect like this. Antipathic field Good damage and good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this. Soul shock Honnest damage and good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this. Tenuous grasp 2 afflictions during 15s... Perfect. Good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this. Eyestrike If we exclude general boost of speed of all spells, I think this spell is design to stay at intermediate speed. (7-8s actually). So, there is a little problem of spell radius. Proposal : 2,5m of radius. Fanthom foes -10 of deflection (flanked) for 5m radius. Good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this. Mind blades Powerful. Jump at penetration 9. Fast speed. Generous. (no nerf, but it is generous = ok for me atm) Proposal : Perfect like this. Recall agony ~25 % of actual damage applied again. Not bad. For the category of speed I hesitate... It is one target, the effect is over time. Proposal : Category Intermediate > fast. (But it is an intermediate at 7s, so that validates me). Psychovampiric shield Problem, when you saw Phantom foes : flanked on 5 meters. Here only a basic inspiration and -10 resolve. This is not crazy... Proposal : At least level 2 of resolve of inspiration. Amplified thrust 16-24 for one target is not crazy. Soulshock do more damage with less focus !!^^ Proposal : 30-40 Mental bending Down category of speed intermediate to fast. Indeed there is "Paralysed". But it is only one target and for 6s. Others are only immobilized. Not the same thing... Proposal : 4s of cast time, and 2 seconds of recovery. Secret horrors 2 afflictions, good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this. Soul ignition Too slow for a damage overtime. (total 55 damage, that is not crazy on 15 seconds for this focus spend) Proposal : Category of speed, intermediate to fast. Pain link Ok for this concept. Good category of speed. Proposal : Perfect like this. Ectopsychic echo Good damage overtime (70), and fast. (Soul ignition is beaten in all case...) Proposal : Perfect like this. Fractured volition Suffer of the comparison with secret horrors. Not bad, but the radius create a difference. Here, there is no radius. So, this is so much less good... Proposal : At least, need to be a level 2 of dexterity affliction... Puppet master dominated. Need to be at the intermediate category speed. Good. Proposal : Perfect like this Wild leech Seems to be great. Proposal : Perfect like this Mind lance To me, category of speed is good. But damage not really. Ok, 22-27 if you touch 3 ennemies in line = 66 damages. But this is not enough for the cost of Focus. Proposal : 30-40. Line is not easy to realize with the movements on the battlefield + Sometimes engagement + 40 focus for this.... Silent scream For 40 focus, this is not crazy. Everything is half done. Damage / C.C. / duration. Proposal : 25-30 main target. Stun for 8s. Foe AoE : 15-25 Because here, Soul shock + Mental binding (40 focus) = better result on damage and C.C... Raw damage is now overrated because there is no more DR. Pain block Inspiration level 3, long duration. Short cast time. Ok for me, even if... it is a little bit expensive. (40 focus...) Proposal : 1 allied Target (like now) + Cipher (Self) gain the effect. Echoing shield Not worth it for me. It is just concentration... Proposal : Downgrade on line 2 or 3. (20 or 30 focus, no more) Body attunement During this time, in Fighter tree... -10 armor rating for 0.5 cast time, without need of focus... Even if we don't consider that, this spell is anyway not enough powerful. One target only for 40 focus. Proposal : Add all defenses -10. We weakened the body's defenses... The body shell... Borrowed instinct Seems to be worth it. Good category of speed and +20 accuracy. Good debuff of the ennemy. Proposal : Perfect like this. Detonate For 50 focus and intermediate category of speed (actually 8s...) I do 24-39 ? Ok there 9 penetration, but this is not enough. Proposal : 50-70 (easy...). Tactical meld Expensive but this is 20 accuracy, and very fast category of speed. Perhaps...: Proposal : 1 allied target + Cipher (Tactic of : not a group, but two of us) Ringleader Dominated + Charmed. Seems to be sufficient. Proposal : Perfect like this. > PASSIVE ABILITIES Iron will If I generally propose 15 for one statistic. Here cipher must have a little more by shift. Proposal : +20 will Penetrating visions +1 penetration for the spells Proposal : Perfect like this. Lingering echoes +duration of afflictions Proposal : Perfect like this Bitting whip / Draining whip MaxQuest must tell us if the two are equal statistically : p Proposal : Perfect like this Psychic backlash Stunned, good effect for 10s Proposal : Perfect like this Brutal backlash 12 is not crazy. it's not going to happen all the time. Proposal : 16 raw damage. Hammering Thoughts +1 penetration with weapons. Good value. Proposal : Perfect like this Greater focus +10 max focus. Why not ? On the other hand, difficult to say if its worth it. Proposal : Perfect like this Keen mind For +5 focusn it is not enough. 5 is nothing. Proposal : +10 at the start of the battle.

If you nerf creativity = proof of bad concept. For me, there must be MORE options of multiclassing. Like Monk + Druid. Not less. But if you nerf this or this, you start a bad gearing. Classes must be more subtly fitted. Multiclasses is a fun concept. Except if your creativity is never rewarded. Also, don't forget, we are hardcore gamer. We know all the possibilities. Even in POE1, there was better classes than others. It stay only one question for obsidian : Balance of viable/optimal. But you will never have totally equal classes. I will look at the side of "new options" for solo classes. Like : - More empower globally. - More empower by battle. - More powerful empower. (or less powerful for multiclass if it is already too powerful) - An etendard ability for each solo class. (like arcane assault, always available at the creation+evolution)

1) Create One Unique Spell (a little better than others) for each subclass (creation). Spell etendard like arcane assault in the first. 2) Reduce to one the prohibited class. Two is too much. 3) Increase accuracy by 10 for each spells of the school. 4) For few subclasses, increase the concept. Atm only evocation is... "ok".

For me proficient weapons could be much more. Generally in video games we do not create hollow concepts. Proficient weapon atm, is weird modal concept of Bonus/malus with very high values perfectly equal (+ / -), and it is all. Like +100 % recovery wtf : p No real bonus behind this, behind the choice of the player. If i use sword and I haven't proficient = same effect than proficient weapon if I disable my modal. And proficient only have a weird deal, with a big advantage and the same in negative. So... Ball in the center. All of this for that ? Not worth it actually. This system does not bring much in my opinion. A more interesting approach would be : Modal 65 % Advantage 35 % Disadvantage +a little bonus of accuracy. Like +4. Others weapons still viable without proficient effect, because 4 is not revolutionnary. And for stem the effect of "I use only one weapon", Allow 5 proficiency Level 1-20 (Except for the Devoted) 2 at level 1, (Case of shield + weapon, dual wielding etc) 1 at level 5, 1 at level 10, the last level 15. For the non-magic enhancement. Already partially exist : https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Crushing_Lash

True ! I correct that.

CHANTER (Part 2) > PASSIVE ABILITIES (CHANTS) Blessed was Wengridh I'm a supporter of +15. +10 is not enough to create the start of a difference for only one attribut. Proposal : +15 reflex. At the sight +10 will and +10 fortitude. Deal. Here there are two importants values so it is ok. Proposal : Perfect like this. Dull the edge -10 % slash and pierce damage. Not sufficient. Overall if I must choose on all chants, this is not even a solution against these damages ! (Amount too low. I prefer Her courage Thick). Proposal : - 30 % ! damage slash and pierce. (Foes continue to deal 70 % of their damage for only two sources of damage... It is nothing...) NOBODY will take that if not !^^ Come soft winds 2 raws damage at 20 resolve. There is a huge problem : p Proposal : 10 raw damages. (=15 with resolve) On dozen stood 2 resistances vs afflictions Good tool. Proposal : Perfect like this. Thick grew Remove concentration. Yes... But nobody will take that. Concentration is not a great problem generally in POE2. And only that is not enough. Proposal : Will interrupt all the foes in the area of effect, every 3s. Ancient memory ~4 HP restored for all the team every 3s. Good deal. Proposal : Perfect like this. The fox from the farmer Holy crap. Reduce Accuracy of disengagement of ennemies [Edit, thanks tu dunehunter]. Worst chant ever. I trying to save this damned soul... Proposal : -50 % damage on disengaging attacks. [Opposite concept now] Sure handed Ila No problem, a good deal since POE1. Proposal : Perfect like this. Mith Fyr A classic of the Chanter. Actually the best chant. A little nerf of 5 % since POE1, but it is always ok at the moment. Proposal : Perfect like this. The long night Borderline but ok. Proposal : Perfect like this. The Silver Knights +10 is not enough. Proposal : +15 deflection. The Dragon Thrashed, The Dragon Died https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVj0ZTS4WF4 Proposal : Obsidian = this russian chanter : p Seven Men Very good tool. Proposal : Perfect like this. Her Courage Thick Awsome with the troubadour. Proposal : Perfect like this.

So two time of actions x2 = 0.7s, also with two weapons ? WTF And why not a +40 % damage on full attack ? (for two handed ?) That would settle the gap ? Don't forget you are a master of this game. Novice and normal players will don't reach easily the 0 recovery. The only question for Obsidian : gap between viable and optimal : p For me actually : Optimal > Viable Dual wielding > Two handed > One handed+shield > One handed > Buff (At the limit...) Non viable Invocations > Offensives Spells = Two handed is not on a bad place... But potential solutions to reduce the problem if Obsidian want it : 1) Fighter two handed style = 15 % to 20 %. 2) Effects of unique / soulbound items crazy for two handed. (one slot against two potential effects with two weapons) 3) Nerf of 10 % of the natural bonus of the dual wielding. (for start). 50 % -> 40 %.

I give you a +1. It would be more pleasant to analyse for me (Actually I must test almost all possibilities and check on the log.) In fact, I think Obsidian want to delay the moment where it will place the real informations in the UI. This avoids having to change the UI all the time. Like that, right now, they only have to change the programming values. I guess the reason is there : p

CHANTER (Part 1) - The list is pretty big, I cut this into two parts. First, the active abilities. - Are applied here the same rules for casters than Priest. > ACTIVE ABILITIES (SPELLS) Hel Hyraf Good spell. Proposal : Perfect like this +The Shield Cracks Problem here. The concept is interresting. But I think in 12 seconds + Int (base version) I have the time to kill any monster of the game. It is not a bad improve, but... Proposal : +10 accuracy of the spell. This could encourage me, to take it. Bones still Slept 8 seconds of cast+recovery for 12 seconds of invocation. Racket ? : p Proposal : 20 seconds of invocation. +Ancient brittle Bones 2 lessers versions if a skeleton fall in battle. Proposal : Perfect like this. Justly Avenged (Thunder : p) Ok for me Proposal : Perfect like this. +Her revenge Swept WTF, penetration and recovery time decreased !?... Bug ? Proposal : Same penetration than the base version (7) and recovery (3s). Reny Daret' Ghost No comment... This is one little Ghost, not a Jedi : p All of this for 10 seconds of cast time + recovery. No release date of the game now !...^^ Proposal : Down the speed category Slow to intermediate. Increase the duration of invocation, 12 to 20. +Hunt for revenge "Duration is -greatly- increase" = 12s LOL. If we stay with my proposition : That's 32 seconds. (20+12) Proposal : +10 seconds (Total 30s) +1 additionnal Ghost. Felled by the axe (Armor Rating) Ok for this concept. +4 AR is a good number. Proposal : Perfect like this +Nor Flame Good addition. Two others bonus to Armor Rating. Balanced. Proposal : Perfect like this Gernisc slew the beast (Wurms) For me, Slow is really for a AOE spell that do very high damage after the strict end of cast time, and applies in a same time 1 affliction or 2 afflictions. It is not the case. After the end of cast time, you start to do few damages, no more... Proposal : Slow -> Intermediate. So this is not only a general balancing (Otherwise I will not say anything.). Categories are used for that. No here, there is a -real- and absurd shift. +Their screams reach It is effective but for 2 abilities we could expect better. I want to see the "powerful" side : p Proposal : Perhaps slighty more powerful. When they arrive they do not ruin opponents, unlike if I had not been a Chanter and I had to choose the path of Fighter : p. Yet I waited 10s, and with a cost 4 phrases. whose interruption would have unfortunate consequences. (happens more often than we think : Good bye 4 phrases + Huge loss of time) Risk = not really rewarded. Something is wrong here. Shatter their Shackles Quick and Crazy. Unique in the game for now ? Proposal : Perfect like this. +The prisonners turned The basic version is excellent. This one is less attractive. There is a lot of level 1 or 2 of strength inspiration in others classes (Monk / Barbarian etc.)... So for me it could be sufficient except for one detail. Proposal : Include "self" on the buff. White Worms Always so special. I never liked. Generally used at the end of the battle. I recommend... : Proposal : ...Less Cast time and more Recovery. No change of category, just a 2s of CT. 4s of R. +Their Putrid Stench Good improvement. Logical. Proposal : Perfect like this. At the sound of his voice Best invocation of the chanter. Paralyzes a group for 8s with 0.5 cast time = crazy. Proposal : Perfect like this. +And Their Fear Frightened is good but Many players (like me : p) could stop at the first version without problems... So this spell is awsome but his upgrade is not attracrive. And if targets die after during or slighty after the first effect ?^^.... Nobody will take the upgrade... Proposal : Frightened for 8s at the START of the spell. Accuracy +5. Stay with 3 phrases. (+1 phrase for this is absurd.) Reny Daret's Ghost Frightened for 12 seconds. Hum. 4 phrases is big cost... Only for this. For me the contract is not respected. Proposal : Add a malus of -5 on all defenses. The upgrade become partially the base effect. +Ben Fidel's Neck And here, we increase the effect. Don't forget there is 4 phrases now. So it is a lot of time indirectly... Proposal : -15 on all defenses. (Always create the best effect on upgrade. It is a good stimulant.) My son Always the same problem with invocations : p Proposal : Category of speed, Slow -> intermediate. +The Light Danced Ok for me. Distracting attack + More powerful. Proposal : Perfect like this. Rejoice my comrades Seems to be ok. It is not crazy but good for me. Proposal : Perfect like this. +And evil turned away Add a Correct amount of damage. Proposal : Perfect like this. Urdel and Gurdel 2 ogres. Good deal, but... Proposal : Category of Speed, Slow -> Intermediate. Rise again Revive all alies. Why not. (Not fan. If the fight fails = I played badly) Proposal : Perfect like this. The Lover Cried Charmed for 8s. Proposal : Perfect like this. +Together They Slew Good idea to increase damage. Proposal : Also increase the range of the spell : Cone of 5m. The brideman slew For me, 4 phrases deserve level 2 inspirations. + The prisonners turned already include level 1 of strength inspiration !... Proposal : Tenacious + Level 2 of resolve inspiration Gernisc's Beast Perhaps. Proposal : Category of speed : Slow -> Intermediate. The bride Caught Same than the brideman. Nimble and aware. 24s have just passed... (The kind of team that I'm going to have, will have finished the battle for a long time. But if it goes so far, the group deserves its hard-earned bonus.) Proposal : Nimble and aware (level 2 of these inspirations) Seven Nights Ok this is 5 phrases. This spell must be perfect. He is not. Proposal : Our category of speed : intermediate to fast. Increase the penetration (7 to 9). 50-70 points of damage (6x5 = 30s to wait for this !). Somtimes there is only one projectile/7 that goes touch a target. So... It is not enough. Side note : The main problem seems to come with physical invocations. All the 9s + 1s... Not only with the global problem of casting time of casters. But here its even worse. Ideally, the cast time must be reduced... Or, Obsidian must boost the power of theses invocations. But personnally, stay in an "area of risk of interruption" for 9 seconds, not for me...