Boeroer

Yes, you can alternate Dragon Thr. and Mith Fyr. Stacking Mith Fyr doesn't do anything, so it's good to use something else as second phrase that fits into the linger time - something like Dragon Thrashed works. With 10 INT the linger time of both is 4 seconds. So at lvl 16 (=Brisk Recitation shortens the chanting time of both to 4 secs) you can alternate between them without a gap. With more INT (expands linger time) you can do it earlier than lvl 16 of course. Mith Fyr also adds a lash to damaging (non-DoT) spells! Actually you don't need weapon damage dealers for it to be good. It's also good for ciphers because lashes on their weapon produce focus as well. I personally like Dragon Thrashed better though. But that's just my personal taste. I never did any tests or calculations like "which one is better in certain situations" or so. I think that MaxQuest for example likes Mith Fyr a lot.

Oh yeah right. I forgot that Avenging Storm will also get the burning lash. Neat.

Charming a dragon also heals him a bit (don't ask me why). So I only use it to have time for excessive buffing and for removing the ads. Edit: one of the two bog dragons can't be charmed - but that's ok because the other can be charmed and all the attention switches to him.

Oh, thanks. Funny to read this again. Nowadays Avanging Storm doesn't profit from Wildstrike anymore (that was a bug) but it is still a great addition to melee damage. I totally forgot that it stuns by the way. Because of this the druid's low ACC isn't much of a problem. One thing that is a bit annoying: the duration of the Wildstrike Belt has the same base duration as spiritshift but it doesn't scale with INT. So if you shift and have high INT, the bonus from the belt will wear out before you shift back.

Hrm... I still need to buy a new PC before the beta comes out. Still playing PoE on my 2012 laptop with Linux. Deadfire beta is Windows only...

I just like Sworn Enemy because it also works with spell bindings - like Whisper of Treason. Crit-charming Dragons in order to get rid of the ads is so much fun. And of course it's a great "kill that guy quickly" ability. That being said I never was a big fan of superdefensive paladins - just not my playstyle - so I'm biased towards the offensive stuff.

Of course the druid as a caster has a higher damage potential than the rogue - simply because in theory he could just nuke everything around him and then rest. If this is a fun approach is debateable. Here Dr <3 meant single target dps when shifted (I presume?). And that's true. Once upon a time I was pretty sure that a rogue was capable of dealing more single target dps in melee than a shifted druid (I played both, but before WMI/II came out, where some things got changed). I then was asked to test a very high dps rogue (we agreed on a certain build that was known to deal great dps) and compare it to a wildstrike-optimized druid in a certain encounter (Elmshore Ogres). My jaw literally dropped and I was convinced. The high level druid can do more melee dps than the rogue as long as he's shifted. But of course only when he's shifted, so that's for a limited amount of time. Reasons are the high (scaling) base damage of the druid's natural weapons, his innate DR bypass without speed loss and his big wildstrike lashes, which are very powerful (lashes apply multiplicative damage bonuses which have to overcome DR - while rogue's bonuses affect weapon base damage). Cat form has superior speed, boar form has wounding. Both do equally well - cat vs. lower DR enemies, boar vs. higher DR. But another important reason why his dps is higher is Avenging Storm (spell). This will add quite an amount of shock damage to every strike and also retaliatiates when you get hit(!). But in tougher encounters like bounties and such the druid can't sustain this form for the whole fight. The rogue will eventualy overtake again. But yes, the single target melee damage of Spiritshift/Wildstrike is really jawdropping and the highest in the game as far as I know, especially with crits (high base damage = great for crits). Maybe the monk can reach same hights with Turning Wheel, Lightning Strikes and Blood Testament Gloves, but I never really tested if he comes near the rogue or the druid. Also because Turning Wheel/Blood Testamant isn't a bonus you always have at max. The spike damage may be equal though (60% burning lash + 25% shocking + 20% raw lash are quite crazy). But that doesn't mean a lot... I mean single target damage here by the way, not Torment's Reach. The druid has low ACC though, that's why it was suggested to buff him with a paladin/priest. A druid on his own tends to graze a lot if he doesn't use CC like Relentless Storm before shifting. Edit: the discussion between me and the druid-fan (don't remember who was it) is burried somewhere deep in the forum.

Still great when Edér tries to Knockdown dragons, right?

Ok, let me summarize what happened so far: - firkraag888 claims that a dual wielding rogue will severely outdamage a *ranger*. - Kaylon shows that this is not he case. - firkraag888 thanks unknown crowd for supporting him in winning this argument and shouts that a rogue will completely destroy a *barb* any day.

Yes, if you want to retrain anyway that's a good approach. I was arguing from a no-retrain-perspective. VA is also good if you are under 0 recovery (mathematically) and can squeeze in VA without speed loss. THen of course it's a no-brainer. It's also better/more benefical whenever you do multiple weaker hits passively or with one attack (Barb's Carnage and retaliation and so on).

Hm... I still think FoD is useful against annoying enemies like casters who stand in the back row and usually don't get touched immediately by Dragon Thrashed. You can kill them even before they can finish one single spell. But I use two arquebuses and maybe even a third one with Runner's WS and don't try to do melee FoD attacks because of the reasons you describe. So yeah, maybe melee FoD is a bit underwhelming once you use Sacred Immolation + Dragon Thrashed + Relentless Storm.

Justice's crushing lash is inferior to a burning lash if you consider to take Scion of Flame (you should from a dps-perpective). Even without Scion of Flame it's no advantage to have a crushing lash instead of an elemental one. They work exactly the same. But of course I would also use it until I get something better. Vulnerable Attack: let's say it's a 10% speed loss. So if you attack 10 times without VA and 9 times with VA, then this one additional attack has to deal 45+ damage on average to make VA useless - if enemies' DR is at least 5. With FoD in the mix, a crit here and there, Two Handed Style, Savage Attack, good weapon enchantments, bit of MIG and a 30% burning lash this is common. Especially if using Tidefall. Even if that "average additional hit" would be lower and VA wouldn't lower your dps you will not gain a lot of damage for one talents point. Great Swords usually make sure you don't do MIN damage most of the time. Also, Vulnerable Attack doesn't work with lashes. That means that FoD and the lash on your weapon will get nothing from it. With Scion of Flame instead you would get more bonus damage in nearly all cases. Runner's Wounding Shot is better in this case, too. Let's say you hit for 50 damage, then it would add 46 raw damage on top (gets boosted by MIG if I'm not mistaken). The harder you hit the better it gets. Very nice once you have Durgan Steel and better weapon enchantments. So my conclusion is that Vulnerable Attack is not worth it on a two handed paladin. But others might see that differently of course.

If you hit an enemy for more than 10 damage he will get one charge of resonance. Every enemy can get up to 10 of those. If you then use Resonant Touch every enemy who is in the AoE will suffer raw damage for each resonance they collected.

Oh wait - I forgot Rot Skulls - a great summoned weapon of the druid which is very powerful (comes quite late) and can also be used by all classes because it's bound to "Father's Teeth", a necklace that only has a few charges of Rot Skulls which don't recharge. But it comes a lot earlier tha the original druid's spell and it also gives you +18 fortitude which is neat (the necklace, not Rot Skulls).

Yes, they just replace what you havein your hands at that time. They are usually very powerful compared to the normal weapons you can get when you get access to the summoned ones. For example Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff has higher base damage than a normal staff, drains endurance and comes exceptional which is supergood at level 1. Firebrand has huge base damage, a bit ACC bonus and huge damage bonus, is annihilating and does burn damage. It also works with Scion of Flame (gets +20% base damage). It is the hardest hitting melee weapon if you leave Citzal's Spirit Lance (also summoned weapon) aside. But you can't enchant summoned weapons and thus they lose most ot their appeal once you get access to durgan steel, dragon scales and such. Citzal's Spirit Lance is always great because it's like turning your wizard into a barbarian with a badass pike - and it comes superb. Firebrand is the only summoned weapon that can be used by all classes because it's bound to those gloves.

Forgemaster's Gloves.THey summon Firebrand 3/rest. It's very good until you get durgan steel.

Mabec's Morning Star is the second best morning star because it has stun on crit. That is great, but besides that it's pretty meh. The best one is Acuan Giamas, but it comes so late that it's of no avail to plan builds around it. The greatest joke is the morning star "Daybreak" which has a nice enchantment but comes shortly before the latest fight in the game (from where there's no turning back). No idea why they placed that nice weapon there. Cruelty maybe...

Yeah, it still has those issues. At least the +25 deflection works properly. I recently tried a "behind the lines" rogue with Escape and the Cape in order to get one more use per encounter. This totally messed up both abilites - as if the game didn't know which one I already used and which not. At one point both were blocked until save/reaload because the game thought both are still "active". I couldn't activate them anymore. So... not so well implemented.

Don't know if Escape cancels the beam. I never tested this. Monk and FIghter work very well. Also tested Paladin with Zealous Charge: good as well. The perfect dragger micht be a Chanter because he can be useful even if he's just running around, trying to connect the beam with as many foes as possible.

I guess every class could work well as "anchorpoint" for the beam if Cape of the Cheat is equipped, right?

The phantoms' stun has a longer base duration I guess. And if the roll vs. fortitude crits then the duration is even 50% longer.

Chanter's Killers Froze Stiff also targets will - but I never saw an enemy chanter use this. Actually I never saw an enemy chanter use any invocation at all. Why is that?

That person was actually me. Nowadays I'm a huge fan of boar druids.

Yes, that's my favorite late game rogue: 2 Flames of Fair Rhian sabres and Talunthain's staff fpr 9 Fireballs per rest. Also Curoc's Brand for an additional one. Ealry on you can get Sun Touched Mail of Hyran Rath and a bit later the Amulet of Summer Solstice. That makes 10 Fireballs and 6 Sunbeams per rest which is very good with Deathblows (= double base damage of the spells). Also works well with a fighter and disciplined Barrage. Bot classes lack a bit of AoE (if you ignore Charge and Clear Out). Sunbeam is also great for rogues because it blinds for a decent amount of time. But no, I meant a quarterstaff as melee weapon. Except wizards with Concenhaut's Staff I know of no build that is focusing on a quarterstaff. Durance's Staff and Llawrans Stick are viable options, but they are not very exciting either. Same with morning stars, swords and pollaxes.

Err... paralyze, stun and prone target fortitude most of the time, mind control stuff targets will. The most annoying and the stuff you mentioned target fortitude and thus MIG and CON help. That's basically it.