SSgtSniper

I love Lego Star Wars, it's just so freaking cutesy that it's good. Halo 2, Lego Star Wars run nightly in the Living Room. In the Bedroom, my wife runs Dynasty Warriors 5 nightly. Here in the office, I run both KOTOR II xbox, and KOTOR II PC. Did I mention I have a lot of xboxes?

I read through five pages of this thread and it made my little unit self concious. Although Diamond's poor unit is hurting worse than mine, by a little bit. He does have a far better processor than me though, so there's always that. Celeron D 2.4 ghz 40 gig HDD 52x DVD Rom/ CD burner 768 MB SD DDR 400 RAM eVGA GeForce FX5200 ..... and a ****-ton of fans mounted outside the case, some blowing in, some sucking out.

Been there. Done that. I didn't even get a lousy T-shirt outta the deal. Cheap bastards.

Well, my final result was I got an old controller from a friend who no longer wanted it, and I found a program that emulates the alpha numeric for me. Although I cannot fix that certain things have to have the damned mouse pointed at them to interact with. Or get the pointer off the screen. All in all, just for the movemnet assistance alone, the emulator was worth it. So if you see this and are in my boat, here's a program for you to look into: Pinnacle's Game Profiler

Rob, what are you doing on here? Rob's my boss, and he does exactly what you describe.

I have to say, the patches involved with KOTOR II have annoyed me to death, and my friends' experience with WoW talked me off of it, but it's entirely possible there are games that don't have all the issues of these. That said, I do prefer my console games, and I will never spend the amount of money required to get a "Gaming Rig". And if Console gaming gets much more pricey, they'll lose my business as well. I have more important things, like classes, and upgrades to our house, and other such things that would be a smarter use of the damned money anyway.

Mine makes funny noises too, but then that's because it spins so damn hard. 52x burner, takes a while for the bastard to spin up to speed too.

Blargh blargh blargh, blargh?

Two big ones I can think of. 1. Lack of games 2. Lack of willingness to patch every bloody game you buy Being upgradable is a two edged sword. I know when I buy a console I'm getting 100% out of every game for the lifespan. Your probably looking at at least two graphic card upgrades with a PC over 5 years each of which will probably cost you the same as an entire console would. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1. I COMPLETELY disagree. There is a steady stream of PC games all year round. And most of them are better then console titles. 2. Thats your problem. You must be lazier than me, which is no small feat. Patching takes 5 minutes. And if you count mods with your patching, bring'em on. Upgradability is a 2 edge sword but again, only because of the $$$ factor. Granted, it's a big one and that's why I also have a PS2. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> See the aforementioned WoW patch. According to two friends, it took somwhere around five hours to download. One says a little more, one a little less, I split the difference.

Alan, I just don't have that kind of patience. When I put the thing in the tray, I want to be playing inside of ten minutes. Or I can live without it.

Well, that's interesting. I never even saw a scroll wheel mouse until 2003. Ah hell, who cares. And how long is that patch for WoW? Like five hours? On DSL? Main reason I never bought the game. That number is from a couple of friends who do have it, btw. I didn't pull it from the air.

Hey astro, have you had to make any repairs to your beat up unit? Or upgrades? I haven't had to do either. And the Marathon reference is because I'm a Bungie fan, not a Mac fan. Oh, and this? May as well be greek, especially if you don't have a scroll wheel. Which didn't exist at the first release of Halo PC, nor did I have one even until rather recently.

alan, just for giggles I'll run you through the rough cost of the xbox throughout it's life. Start at launch. The first xboxes sold for close to 300 dollars. They cost 400 to make. It should have cost closer to 450, but because of that damned Nvidia chip they tried to cut costs on the dvd drive. And a TON of them failed. There was a recall on the now infamous "Thompson drive" xbox. Cost them a ton more. Move forward to the first two rounds of price drops. They were selling like crap, but Halo had just come down the pipe and they saw the chance to save the console. So it dropped to around 200. (Still higher in some locations) the cost of the unit had actually gone UP. The new Phillips dvd drive cost more than the Thompsons, and they were still in the realm of the recall. Finally, the unit drops to 180. Still using the Phillips drive, although it idid have some bugs and could become tempermental. replacement costs were still there for the ones that did fail, but finally the unit had started to go down in cost. At this point, it cost them about 350 to make. Than towards the end, they swapped dvd drives again. To samsung. The cost of the unit had finally gotten down below 300, then the drive change made it go back up to just above. And they had one last recall, this time on power cords. Although costs finally got back to the 300 mark, the unit sold for 150 by this point. MS never made a dime on xbox sales. They did make a ****-ton on game sales, especially after buying several developers like Bungie and others, and making a lot of the big ticket sellers exclusive to the xbox.

Actually, you'll laugh at this, it was Nvidia screwing xbox. And it was well documented. The xbox had a special chip that they paid through the nose for the entire run of the unit. Which is why they refused to go through Nividia on the 360. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hehe, bold move by nVidia. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey, it got them the capital they needed to produce some of the advances in graphics cards they have made up to this point. So it worked well for them, I'd guess.

Actually, you'll laugh at this, it was Nvidia screwing xbox. And it was well documented. The xbox had a special chip that they paid through the nose for the entire run of the unit. Which is why they refused to go through Nividia on the 360.

Put your tower through half the stress I have put my oldest xbox through, and see if it still runs. I can safely say, as I pat the cracked-case-but-still-works-unit, it won't. Compare ease with a literal transfer, same game to same game. Halo PC is a bear to get set up with anything approaching a logical keystroke setup. Halo xbox, plug the thing in and go. Aiming and shooting with a keyboard and mouse, I swear, how do you do it? I never could hit the side of red base with the thing. I can draw smiley faces in it with the xbox. Also, Has the carpal tunnel set in yet? I got back to setting up four xboxes versus sixteen PCs. Far, Far less room required. I also prefer to play against people I know after all, instead of the strangers on the internet (No offense to internet gamers) Well, arguably the best fps there ever was was on a Mac. But I doubt you ever heard of Marathon.

What makes you think no profits were made though? Keep in mind that companies like Dell and Compaq can acquire parts for mere fractions of the prices that we can get from an OEM reseller (for building our own computers). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because to put it bluntly, it's well known that the xbox cost literally TWICE what it sold for at the end. which is half the strengeth of these units when I bought them. Now, quick math: xbox sold for 150 at end run. Twice that is three hundred. 300 for half of the unit I have sitting here, minus my upgrades. Take ad double that, you get six hundred. Subtract a quarter for volume discount, you get 450. And it still doesn't have software. I paid less than that for this thing before I put in my upgrades.

Yup, but PC companies also sell at a loss on low end units, because MS pays them to. I know they lost money on mine, and my wife's. It is what it is. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How do you know this? What type of computer do you have? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pair of cheap Compaq units. I have about 400 in one, and 450 in the other. With a recent RAM upgrade in both, and one add on HDD. I eidt to add the initial cost for each was around 350.

Oh I get it, but you are wrong. It's apples to oranges. PCs will exist whether there are PC games or not. The world is driven on the damned things anymore. Consoles do not even try to compete with PCs. They can't. Because when it comes down to it, if you really want to spend enough money, you can build a PC that will have the capability of every console ever combined. Consoles compete with other consoles. At least xbox and playstation do. Nintendo is just 'there'.

Yup, but PC companies also sell at a loss on low end units, because MS pays them to. I know they lost money on mine, and my wife's. It is what it is.

He has a point there. My wife's PC has never played a game since it was purchased. Never. Not once. Any questions?

I know it is. Xboxes sold measely until the price dropped to 180. Then it took off. Ask yourself why?

Sorry, I just edited on the fly. Reread.

I wouldn't. It's a hobby, and a fairly cheap one. Price anything much higher than that threshold, and I will decide to just go fishing. Or something. I'm not laying down much more than I currently do. I'm going to get squeezed out of gaming altogether in the next few years, I am well aware. So will many others. Then it'll get cheaper again, as companies struggle,and I will return. How it's always been.

I have something to say about all this. Now keeping in mind folks I skipped through a lot of this because it's the same argument we've been having in The Maw vs. The Library Forum at Bungie, there are three things I seem to notice people missing. 1. Portability. This may sound crazy on it's surface, but Halo created a phenomenon in gaming caled a LAN party. Simply put, the xbox can be moved around much easier than a PC. Now, TV's aren't as portable, but that misses the point. The xbox was designed to better handle being moved frequently, something I dare say you wouldn't want to do with a PC. Also, if you tear the xbox up in transit, you lost 150 bucks. If you tear up your tower...... 2. Ease of use. The xbox compacts all the functions spread haphazardly thoughout the keyboard based on some design I cannot find the logic of to save my life, into one small haldheld unit, with all keys (counting buttons, triggers and sticks as keys) positioned to be right at a finger/thumb. I cannot manage to get off the Ebon Hawk with my keyboard, but when I hooked up a controller, I was off it in a jiffy. 3. Multiplayer. Consoles are designed so that several people can participate on the same unit at once. That doesn't happen on a PC. PC gaming is one man at a time. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, the console has more potential packed into it for a large audience than a PC. Something else worth mentioning is gameplay. I do not know how many times I have said this, as well as many console gamers everywhere, but enough with the flashy, give us good substance. Halo PC had plenty of added flash and more toys to play with, yet most Halo fans hate it. Why? Because all the flash and pizazz ruined the gameplay. They horribly unbalanced the game on the PC, just to add a few toys I didn't find interesting at all. I sold my copy of Halo PC days after I got it, and swore off PC gaming. I only got KOTOR II PC for the KSE editor, and once I am done fiddling with the extra flash and pizazz, I'll be back on my xbox again, because it's just clunky on PC. Now, I hold LAN parties for Halo and Halo 2 frequently. It costs me far less to set up four TV's and Four xboxes, than sixteen PCs. Do the math on that one. Now I'm not even going to lie: I won't get a 360 for a while yet. I'm picky that way. I'm waiting until Halo3 or KOTOR 3 forces me to, and hoping the price goes down. When either comes out, I will buy one regardless. But I have some bad news for you, BW, if the console cost 1,000, and a computer cost 1,000, I wouldn't have either. I cannot justify spending that much in one chunk for a toy. Which is all either of these are to me. I got all three of my xboxes, my PC, and my wife's PC for just under 1,200 dollars. Yes, they are generic computers. Yes I have upgraded them a little. But I still don't have 1,000 dollars in the both of them. And I damn sure won't put a thousand into a single unit. It's just too much. And I can tell you a LOT of people I know are the same way. Nick, (my fourth xbox at LAN) doesn't even own a PC at all. Because the cheapest thing he can get would cost him three xboxes, and he won't lay that down. Price matters to a lot of us, even if we have the money to spend. Could he afford a PC? Easily. Will he? No. That's just how it is. But he did lay down for a single xbox at 150. I think your argument of pricing them at what they cost for the unit would end BOTH console AND PC gaming, because a lot of the capital from console gaming profits goes to help fund new game development for both consoles and PCs. Capital they couldn't develop games without. Bottom line is, a console has more draw for many than a PC ever could, but you kill them with price, you aren't helping the situation, because I can live without gaming if it gets too expensive. My wife would be happier anyhow if I did.