SSgtSniper

Character-development wise, I'll give Kriea the nod. I do have to say though that I think that comes from her origins in the "Grey" philosophy. Light siders gone dark, (Anakin style) seems to be too much into hack-and-slash. However Grey Jedi that fall "off the wagon" seem to be much more deliberate and manipulative in their actions.

Dyan, take a look at my edit. I thought I'd get it in before your return, I was wrong.

Dyan, that's a lot of what got me to thinking the same thing. She is much more, I guess the word is engaged, when it comes to anything regarding Brianna than any other person/droid on that whole damned ship. Far too involved to stay "in-character". Then you put all the other pieces in, and it just looks so much like she is Master Kae. And the Anakin/Vader logic is the kind of backwards-cryptic mumbo jumbo I think she is using when she says she knew Arren Kae well. EDIT: Another tidbit: Arren Kae was supposed to have died in the Mandalorian Wars, right? Lightside, upon the return to Dantoonie, the confrontation between Kriea and the council. Kreia: He has brought truth, and you condemn it? The arrogance! Kriea: You will not harm him. You will not harm him ever again. Master Kavar: I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars...... Kriea: Die? No- became stronger, yes. Master Vrook: Is this your new Master, exile? If so, then you follow Revan's path. Her teachings will cause you to fall as surely as he did. I just did that particular scene again tonight with my lastest creation, I had forgotten about Kavar's part in that exchange. Just another piece of an interesting puzzle.

Well this is coolness, and a tidbit I did not know. Learn something new everyday I suppose.

Restoration mod? Discuss.

Xbox, and I love the fact I can move around to every TV in the house. That way I don't disturb the wife. If they ever get the droid planet mod running, I'll probably pick up a copy for PC.

Not to knock you guy, because I appreciate the input, but just a quick point: The first moment I heard Canderous speak, I instantly knew that was who he was.

So, have you tried to, y'know, dismiss the other party members and replace them with Bao right before triggering an influence oppurtunity? I ask because the "never been able to make him..." makes it sound like you've played the game multiple times, hence this could be an option, unless you're really against using such 'tactics'. If you know which encounters bao reacts to, it's as easy to make him a Jedi as the others...just takes a little longer because it can't be done with one conversation. :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah, but there is the crux of the problem, now isn't it? I don't want to have to work so hard. Also I have a bit of a problem forgetting until after I just screwed up and did it. But when I can remember, I do try to do just that. I mean, you're talking to the guy that will leave the exile in that one room for two days while I infinite Hssiss off and on until I pick up level 33 (the last known Player Crystal update level) so sneaky tactics don't bother me a bit.

Yes. But all of her students end up becoming Dark Side Followers. That sounds like an "Source" to me... The only thing she says is :betrayal: and then Atris respons. She also turns emotional with Visas' possible relation, it is just that she doesn't like the Exile to "bind" himself to another woman (wow, that sounds creepy) Another explenation could be they were both Jedi Knight in the same time period. ?Just like Juhani and Belyara(?) knew each other well...very well Kreia was sentanced. So if Kae left and Kreia was exiled they cannot be the same... Listen to Disciple? Are you outta your mind? Meh, I cannot remember that, also only had 1 female run-through... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Point 1: All the Jedi that went to the Mandalorian Wars, save the Exile, wound up Dark Jedi at some point or another. The "source" was the war itself, not that self-righteous Atris would care. Point 2: She gets much more excitable (read: pissed off) over Brianna than Visas. You have to deny her accusation three times with the Brianna situation during that dialog, once with the Visas situation during that dialog. She just doesn't let go of the subject. Sounds a bit "personal" to me. Point 3: Yes that could be, but the larger point is that the statement itself, in it's point-of-factness, is out of place with her character. In other words, for that statement to fit with her persona for the whole rest of the game, you have to read into it as she's hiding something, and in my opinion it's that she "knew" Arren Kae because she IS/WAS Arren Kae. Point 4: Show me where in the game it says she was sentenced by the Jedi. It doesn't. She was exiled by the sith, but not officially by the Jedi Order anywhere in the actual game. Point 5: You do not have to be female for him to tell you this stuff. People forget he's in that room in Khoonda until the fight with the Mercs, and he is in the Library room when you first open the door. Just explore all of his dialog options there and he will talk with you about Revan and his "Many Masters". I'm enjoying the debate, do please continue.

Bao-Dur hard to make a Jedi......you got to be kidding me. He was among the easiest to make a Jedi. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have never been able to make him into a guardian without basically running around with ONLY him in my party for half the damned game. It seems everyone else leeches the crap out of him. Which annoys me. But I do love his Techie abilities.

Okay, my turn. The corrupt source would be Kreia... As she turned students to the dark side and ruled a portion of Sith from the base on Malachor V. Not entirely true. Kriea (before her time as a sith) was a Grey Jedi, much like Jolee Bindo. She respected both sides of the coin. She still believes in the "Grey", if you listen to her dialog to Atris, she says there isn't enough truth in the Sith teachings, but it is a step. Greys tend to think you should at least be aware of both sides of the coin, and greys are usually shunned by the order at large (Jolee, anyone?) The grey teachings can be considered corrupt, as they do expose one to the dark side, without advocating it. Kriea did however become sith on Malachor, as it seems prolonged exposeure to that place seems to have that effect. QUOTE Then there is Kriea's own behavior, behavior I believe to point at the root theory. She respects the light side, and the dark side. She is truly the definition of "grey", believing true understanding only comes from knowing both sides of the coin. This could have easily been the "corruption" in Revan's training. She also seems a little more upset at your sparring with Brianna Kae than maybe she should, if she has no direct interest in the situation. She's very accusatory in her dialog there. Because she swear an oath to Atris, which is, as we all know, a pet of Darth Traya. Again, it comes down to Methinks thou doest protest too much. She's far more "emotionally" involved in that particular dialog for someone who is for the rest of the game, the pillar of Grey "detachment". She knew the Handmaiden's mother "well" and her mother's name was Arren Kae. She knew Atris and the Handmaiden Sisters. So she was probably also told about Handmaiden's history... She specifically says "I knew her mother well." One very clear statement, from a normally cryptic woman. And if she was Arren Kae, then yes, she'd tend to know Arren Kae well. Her mother was disgraced and exiled by the Jedi Order. Because of her relation. Kreia was exiled for because all her students turned to the Dark Side... That's never actually discussed. I actually believe that Kae wasn't formally "sentenced", she left of her own rather than be disgraced. And if Kae is Kriea, her student's fall would just add a second layer of guilt to it. Revan was trained by many masters, including Arren Kae, "Before Kae left for the war." Yes, butt not as the first. The first master was Kreia, Kae was just a "middle" teacher... If you listen to the Disciple, he goes in a sort of reverse Chronological order when he lists the masters, and stops at Arren Kae. So just how sure are we of this again? I'm sure you'll return and eat my lunch, looking forward to it. Edit: apparently normal BBcode doesn't work for quoteage here??? Little help please.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! And very true. That sortof Eastern Bloc voice does it for me. Although I do get a moment of the smiles when I redeem Bastila. Nihilus gets it for that voice, sounded like my 1976 Chevy One Ton's starter when it was dying. Goto gets it for just being a prick of a self centered droid. HK gets it in II for his annoying attitude, he's just not the same old HK. And finally Bao-Dur gets it for being so damned hard for me to make into a Guardian. As to my actual vote? Nihilus, that dying starter-motor voice was just too much. Had to mute him.

Hahaha, I see the "community" has decided she isn't.... well, I am looking for logical debate on it, so I welcome someone picking at the idea. Also, search functions hate me. About as much as I hate them. Which is my way of saying my two attempts to search timed out on me. Truthfully the two things that swung me to thinking about this were Atris line That's not her real name.... and then my next time through when I sparred with Brianna, and Kriea starts the usual accusation that I'm trying to boink the girl, the thought came to mind, "Methinks thou doest protest too much". Thus the idea was planted in my head.

For those who actually choose to read this, I thank you for your time in advance. Forgive my disjointed explanation of the following. As I played through my copy of KOTOR II for what has to be the fiftieth time, I got to thinking about some things, things previously noted but ignored. It started to bug me, so I went back and thought about this subject: Who is Kriea really? I believe Kriea to be none other than the Handmaiden's mother, Arren Kae. The following is the bits and pieces collected from the final story that made the game, from playing through several different times and listening to what those around had to tell. Let's start with what you can drag out of Kriea herself. Mainly three things: She trained Revan at some point. This is hard for a Lightsider to find out, but not impossible. I've seen me do it. She knew the Handmaiden's mother "well" and her mother's name was Arren Kae. She was involved in the Mandalorian War. Now, move forward to the Handmaiden. From her you get very little, the non-presence is a little more important: She never knew her mother. Her mother fought in the Mandalorian War. Her mother was disgraced and exiled by the Jedi Order. Now, (and there will be someone to argue with me, I am sure) you can get the relevant parts of the story that the disciple holds whether you are male or female. IN OTHER WORDS, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO JOIN YOUR PARTY FOR THIS INFO. Revan was trained by many masters, including Arren Kae, "Before Kae left for the war." Atris also contributes one key piece of info here: Kriea is not Kriea's name. Atton also points out something, albiet an obvious something: Kriea has seen a fair amount of "hard living". Meaning she might not be recongnizable even to those who know what she used to look like. T3 contributes as well, although not directly: The holo of your trial, Atris claims that all the sith came from the same source, the same "corrupt" source. It's supposition, but I believe that "source" is Arren Kae. Then there is Kriea's own behavior, behavior I believe to point at the root theory. She respects the light side, and the dark side. She is truly the definition of "grey", believing true understanding only comes from knowing both sides of the coin. This could have easily been the "corruption" in Revan's training. She also seems a little more upset at your sparring with Brianna Kae than maybe she should, if she has no direct interest in the situation. She's very accusatory in her dialog there. The final piece for me comes as a lightsider upon your return to the enclave at Dantoinee. To quote the crotchedy old Vrook: "Is this your new master? If so, you will fall to the dark side, just surely as Revan did." Again, I'm speculating, but is this a reference to Revan having been trained by Arren Kae? Feel free to demolish my theory if you so choose, but I had to put it out there somewhere. I was referred to here. Thoughts are appreciated, for or against. If this particular subject has already come and gone, then I apologize.

I can honestly say that I have only gone DS in either game once. That was in the original. I have a bit of an old fashioned conscience, and a problem: it made me physically ill to do these "fake" mean things to fake people. I never went dark again. Lightsider all the way.

I'm a little new here, but my two cents is I always do Korriban second, because of the infinite hssiss glitch. I like being a bruiser early on in the order, and I've sat there and used the infinite hssiss to get ten levels in a sitting (I have lots of patience when it comes to using the d20 system to it's full effect). That's just me though. Other than that, I vary where I go first and last quite a bit.