Elric Galad

Blood thirst/Bloodlust are neat when you start to get some kills. Barbarian are nice in general for action economy cause many of the ability are almost instant. I tried to emphasize this with Barbaric Blow upgrade that negates recovery (does not require a kill with BPM). Consider that you can buff yourself with Spirit Frenzy (staggering anything close), use insta-blow with a Morningstar, activate Lion Sprint (with the above change), so your next attack vs fortitude will be at a relative +10+25+20. A monk MC could have Weakened the target too granted the Crit Chances of barbaric blow. All the above is instant. It has cost 4 rages, but you have several buffs still active. That's what I trying to achieve, a class that can burn ressources quickly for great result.

From the class tiers discussion, it seems that Barbarian being a bit below as a MC isn't much challenged. (Ranger neither, but I believe that it is mostly due to pet being hard to handle ; also, hunter's claw fix them so much vs bosses) That's why I would like to make a couple of changes for them. Wilder Hunter : extend the bonus vs primordials. There aren't many abilities vs Primordials. I guess it could make Boreal Barbarian a thing. Bloody Slaughter : add +100% carnage damages vs Near Death. This is meant to provide "free kills" synergizing with other Barb passive. Wild Sprint : buffed to 10s. Would make the duration more similar to Evasive Roll and Swift Strike. Ram Sprint : no further change, good at what it does. Lion Sprint : make it work with non-weapon attack again, for better synergy. buffed to +20 acc. The idea is to make barb MC support better the other class. At the cost of spending Rage quickly, but I think it is fitting them. Savage Defiance : Issue with it is redundancy with Frenzy inspiration (esp for Berzekers) and redundancy with any Robust you can get from elsewhere (cough cough Cipher, Druid and Spiritual ally - the Robust inspiration provider for men of culture). Even with BPM Buff. And too easy to cancel with a CON Affliction. And this cost 3 Rages... So I plan to make it 20hp/3s for 20s with no Inspiration. An actual heal, as it was it PoE1. About as strong as 3 Lay on Hand for 3 Rages (or 2 Rages and a precious Tier 7 ability point) since LoH initial ticks matter for the comparison. Instant but self-only, so I believe it would be balanced. Would enforce the identity of Barbs as bottomless pit of hp type of tanks (altough this tanking is a bit less good as "taking no damages" type of tanking - Barbs also has better CC and offensive abilities than fighters). This would be a great tool for MC that plan to take damages, such as Immolation Paladins, Monks and Blood Mages. Stalwart Defiance : as Savage Defiance, but for 2 Rages. Savage Courage : as above, but more akin to Courage : Actual Immunity to Interrupt for the duration. I think this would play a great role to make Barb a support MC. And something for Fighter too (to keep them distinct from Barb as a Tank and Attack class) Hold the Line : also provides immunity to Push/Pull. This is so Fighterish that I wonder how it could not be in their ability tree.

I think the prime reason why I didn't put priest and wiz higher is how their specific tricks are reliant on specific spell level. So often you'll end up saving slots, or having to choose between Miasma and Mirror Images, etc... Druid less so, since their 2 main uses (DoT and HoT) have better redundancy between tiers. This problem is fixed by Bloodmage though. Note that the gaps between tiers is thin (exception with the 3 "bad SC), that's why not taking Subclasses into account is valid : I'm only trying to make a synthesis, you have "great" builds for each class. Engagement slots can be found elsewhere : barbarian shout, modals, items (Kapana Taga). Fighters have undoubtly the most convenient. But you can build almost as good tanks with added utility with other classes. That said, fighters have their own tricks : Tactician, Devoted PEN, quickswitches, access to a multi-hit weapon attack as MC... Though not as class defining, they enable perfectly strong builds. "Solid" tier simply means you have to think a little more to make these classes optimal. Nice ! By the way, sorry if I don't answer all your points (I don't have that much time)

I think the information that Beckoner secondary drakes are full health ones should appear somewhere in this thread or another one . That said, drakes are still meh without BPM IMHO.

Hi, I wanted to start a topic about something that we haven't done so often here : trying to make class Tiers. The reasons why it wasn't made so often IMHO are because : - The game is fairly balanced. As you'll see below, I don't believe that there is actually a bad class as a whole, - Do we want to consider cheese ? What means a Tier if one can break the game ? - Multiclass and Singleclass need separate ranking (but that's what I did) Therefore, before starting a review, I wanted to state the assumptions I made : First, a Tier means "how easy it is to include a given class in a proper party build, how easy it is to find a role for it". A high tier is fairly easy to include, a low tier would require specific care, maybe even a niche build to include without feeling gimped. As you will see, there is a grand total of 3 Single Classes that I really find gimped in basically all case, or at least not robust enough compared to respective multiclasses. I'm obviously excluding mods. I'm excluding cheese builds. I'm excluding solo (a whole different game). I'm not discussing in detail multiclass options. There are some combinations that doesn't work (especially with subclasses) but I'm considering each class separately for MC. So here we go. The result is objectively quite subective, but I think the topic is interesting enough to make a try. For each class, I'm listing its main selling points, and I'm adding sometimes a short synthesis, especially for lower tiers. Multi Class ranking : Great+ : Chanter : - 2 passive Chants are super good support - Chanter's summons are the strongest (ancient weapons especially) - Can do the above almost passively, so you have to do whatever you want and/or wears the heaviest armor Great : Druid : - Best healers - very serious DoT, raw damages helping circumvent PEN issue from casters - some very good CC - Decent Summons Cipher : - Charm effects - Decent secondary healer at the cost of 1 ability point - Disintigrate is sick - Ancestors Memory is top tier party support even if you don't cheese - Weapon bonus damages and PEN Rogue : - Around +100% weapon damages and a raw DoT. Everything else is icing Paladin : - So tanky - LoH is arguably the best single target heal - Instant rez - Auras are about half as good as Chanter's double chants, which is already very good Monk : - So many passive buffs for both caster and martial multiclasses. Probably overall the best "other class support" multiclass - Summons on top of this, which use renewable ressources Solid : These ones worth including, but I feel that they are less good at filling a specific role as the one above. Fighter : - "Free and instant" +3 engagement slots - Easiest access to Accuracy self buff (though non stacking), sometimes quite important for caster MC - Basically invincible with Unbending active A living crowd control. Does not do much more apart poking reasonably hard. (Oh, and Tactician belongs to the upper tier). Wizard : - Many self buffs, especially defensive. Wiz is a martial tank - Decent Crowd Control, debuff damages and summons Wiz in this Tier is probably the weirdest choice in this list. The thing is, I'm often struggling to give MC wizard a proper focus. You need to have a proper plan for them (like tanking, spamming Minoletta burst, etc) or you'll end up casting only a couple self buff and underpenetratind with your AoE spells. Wiz can be God tier with Wall of Draining abuse though and in general, Wizards will rock with the proper combo. Priest : - Heal, rez and party buff. Even their summon is a healer. - Various other spells that do various other useful things. Priests are a bit unfocused, and get some mehish spells at low levels. I often find they lack a bit of punch (as Multiclass of course). Note that Priest is also technically the most abusable class through BDD and SoT. Solid minus : Same as above, but struggle a bit at being better than other combinations. Barbarian : - Some tanking, but not on par with Pal, Wiz and Fighter - Frenzy lines, especially Spirit Tornado, is arguably the most cost effective effect of the game (only contest is SC barbarian Tier 9 shouts) - Blood thirst is combo material. Barbarian suffers from mehish active abilities, the downgrade of Carnage from PoE1 (which was the pillar of the class design) and bonuses on kills that aren't that reliable. That being said the class offers decent self buffs, mobility and passive. Ranger : - Pet is basically a passive summon, that you can stack with other summons. And summons are good. - Plenty of stackable accuracy - Oh boy, I love Tranquilizing Shot, most reliable buff remover. Pet is hard to handle. Ghostheart could be considered as Solid tier instead of Solid- for this sole reason. Rangers are a bit unfocused, require a ton of ability points, and their main selling point (stackable accuracy) does not work very well with multi target classes (that's why Seer is arguably their best MC caster option). Single Classes ranking : Consider that the SC are evaluate with MC option in mind. A SC can be good on its own, but if the corresponding MC is better, I will rank it low. Great : Wiz : - Oh boy, those Tier 8 - 9 are good. Especially Meteor shower and Salvo. - +2-3 PL is good for casters Priest : - Symbols are crazy spells. Spark the soul too. SC Priest is therefore a top tier nuker. - +2-3 PL is good for casters Monk : - Whisper of the Wind and Resonant Touch really kick ass - Inner Death can one-shot - Scaling fists and still plenty of Monk goodies Solid : Druid : - Great Maelstorm, the reason to pick SC druid - Finally, a rez ability. Rest of Tier 8 is a bit meh compared to Wiz/Priests - +2-3 PL is good for casters Cipher : - Shared Nightmare - Time parasite basically allows you to do more - +2-3 PL is good for casters Barbarian : - Shout Tier 9 upgrades are god Tier and cost nothing to cast. SC barbarian is a nuker. A couple of other goodies (Heart of Fury with dual mortars...), but this one is the gamechanging one IMHO. Good only if you know what you're doing : Paladin : - Need to build your Pal and your party around Divine Retribution. But then, become an infinite ressource class. Rogue : - Need to build around Gambit and/or Vanishing god mode. Subpar : Ranger : Whirling Strike OR Twin Shot need to be build around. There is a couple of cool stuff, but I honnestly see nothing really gamechanging with SC Ranger (which does not mean it is not viable, just that MC are basically better, Scout or Seer being the obvious options). Fighter : - Sundering Blow is great for what it does (enable party to harm that boss). - Clear Out upgrades are nice, but that's about it. Chanter : - +2-3 PL only benefits invocation. - Eld Nary upgrades is awesome, but in my experience has a tendancy to bounce back quite often. - that 4th weapon is neat. It's not that SC Chanter is bad, it is just that MC chanter offers about 75% of what SC does, plus the full benefits of another class. SC Chanter is mostly there because MC Chanter is arguably the best Multiclass option.

Just an idea : is it possible to somehow target party member with Debonaire in order to et a random Inspiration up to Tier 3 at max level ?

Anyway, version 1.5.3 released with only a couple of changes. Tweaks to Shadowed Hunters and Distracting Training as discussed above and a change to Summon Familiar that mitigates an issue found there : https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/114591-mechanics-the-summoners-tables/page/2/#comment-2298754 Link to the mod : https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/438?tab=description

OK, just did that. Familiar now has 100 base hp without level progression. So its stats will vary less depending on scaling. 100hp is a bit much at lvl1, but that's still less than what Ancient's 2 sporeling gets cumulatively and the thing has horrible stats (and won't scale) Also it has 8 CON (so 90hp, or 88hp if you're using BPM +/-6% CON) It will die super easily, but maybe not when a foe looks in its general direction.

I think this spell is fine as a Kith-only discount Temporal Cocoon. It works a bit weird sometimes, but nothing too critical (except when is annhilihate your weapons, but I guess this is hard coded)

This guy has more cheese than the number of days in a year.

BPM provides Incarnate summons with Legendary weapons. Pallid Knight is a fighter, and having only normal weapons mean she was useless. The other summon is a SC fully scaled priest so it helps less. BPM reduces the duration of Incarnate of Berath because 2 for price of 1 was too good. With BPM, the PL penalty is lesser but lasts longer. The usher should appear too. It was tested and worked. By the way, Symbols are basically the best Tier 8 damages spell of the game. Period. Only tier 9 Maelstrom ans Minoletta can compare. But you get only one cast of them without support. Symbols being no friendly fire is also very cool.

You have to ctrl + F the description of the mod with the version tag <Version 1.5.2> . All new features are tagged this way.

So Devoted/Ranger for Frostseeker Crit galore ?

By the way, how does Devoted bonus/malus works on this kind of weapon tagged attacks (that are probably not linked to a proficiency) ?

Yeah because no Stun means that Relentless storm is unlikely.

Great information. I had spotted something similar when addressing a bug about Minor Bog Ooze sometimes getting an ability and sometimes not depending on area (independantly from caster level). Your explaination is more general, but I confirm it is supported by facts spotted on my side. Ach ach that's a bit sad for poor BPM familiar, but given that it is more of a living self-buff (and possibly some fuel for Divine Retribution) than a combat summon, I don't think it is too bad. Still better than Conjurer being limited to 1 Summon, and sort of address the problem of flooding with familiars (with Brilliant or something similar). However, I might consider 2 mitigations : - Increasing a bit familiar base HP (arnound 50-75-100ish), so it doesn't die to a breeze (can't get too high because of low level, but would hardly be more broken than Ancient Sporelings), - reducing casting/recovery since the familiar has 0 raw power in actual combat. Maybe to 3s/0s.

I get that. I think I will set it to Miss or Graze indeed. Lowering duration isn't a good idea. Base 10s means actually 7.5s due to pet intellect (unless Bonded Fury). However, I will lower the +1 Bond chances to 15% (on Misses or Grazes). I will try to change this but as you know it might be impossible. Anyway if the -10 Deflection procs on self inflicted attacks, it means that the 15% Bond chances procs too. Which can be abused with things such as Tangleroot. Now that I think about it, it's probably a good idea to limit the whole on Miss / Graze part to weapon attacks, even if it cost the synergy with bonded fury. EDIT : if I limit it to weapon attack, I will set the Bond on Miss/Graze to 20% instead of 15% as stated above. EDIT EDIT : No, thinking again, 15% is fine. I don't want to provide ranger with something as efficient as BPM Toughened Fury, and the other part of the ability (the DEF debuff) has been enhanced enough.

Hi, I wanted to have your opinion. Currently Shadowed Hunters is a Tier 9 Ranger Ability. It was quite meh, so I modded it to the following : Shadowed Hunters :Pet's first bite after using the ability apply a 30sDoT effect (20 raw damages per 3s tick). Note that first pet attack doesn't break invisibility (this is true in the base game) But I'm not very satisfied, because it basically use a small bug to work, and this DoT feels a bit out of the place. Also Tier 9 is a very precious Tier (since you get only 3 ability points for it). In my last run as a SC Stalker, I wasn't even tempted to take it. So I thought it was probably too bad. Therefore I started to think again about the ability. I probably want to do something similar to Enduring Shadows. BPM's Enduring Shadows provides 20s of invisibility that breaks normally, as well as Swift and +25 deflection for the whole 20s (even if invisibility breaks). It is 0.5s/0s casting/recovery, teleports you and costs 2 bonds. I think it is a good basis to balance Shadowed Hunters. So for Shadowed Hunters, I think I will remove current BPM changes and perform the following changes : 1 - Remove recovery. Easy one and good basis. 2 - Makes the healing effect and -50% not cancellable when Invisibility breaks. Probably will also buff the healing from 8 to 10 health per tick (align with Robust) 3 - Add an offensive bonus. I think about a 60s Intuitive (Tier 3 PER Inspiration) that activates only when invisbility breaks. All this would worth the Tier 9 point and 3 bonds. Shadowed Hunters will basically be either a small repositionning + general offense and defense buff, or you can use it to basically lick your wounds for 30s and still benefit from a 60s intuitive. Intuitive fits Ranger very well, stacks with Hunter's Claw and all their other Acc bonuses, and Synergizes very well with Stunning Shot and any Crits related build (such as Twinned Shot + Frostseeker). Intuitive can give an additive +17.5% crit chance for such build (50% Hit x 25% chance, +5 From Perception). It also benefits the pet. Granted taking Shadowed Hunters will cost you either Heart Seeker, Prestige, BPM's Distracting Traing bond regen or Stunning Shot, so I don't think it would be too OP. Intuitive was previously only found on Fighter, but locking it at SC Ranger ultimate Tier won't make it that much more common. What do you think ?

Yeah, it could somewhat be renamed "Scourge of Hauani O Whe" because it is its one realistic purpose. Maybe poking Belranga too ?

What do you think about Scourge of Bezzello ? Granted that it comes super late and is a loot from one of the hardest fight, it appears to me that this weapon has an interesting property : it is a crossbow with 3 hits. Why do I think it is so great ? Apart for the usual feat from multi-shot weapons (Avenging Storm, triple roll for applying afflictions), I think it combines perfectly with the Crossbow modal in order to be the perfect interrupting weapon. Because yes, you get triple chances of interrupting from normal Hit. Which is especially neat when one need to dig through layers of Concentration. Now, of course, it isn't meant to be the main weapon of a build, but as a secondary/situational one, I think it is pretty good. Basically BiS for its purpose.

For the last version of BPM it is the contrary. WoD in base game is -1s for foes, +1s to self WoD in previous version was -2s for foes, +0.25s to self (which was a bit rough) WoD in latest version is -2s for foes, +0.5s to self (which works perfectly in some battles, but can't be used at full efficiency every time)

Remember this time when some dude summoned Dorudugan out of console command, which resulted in an upscaled Dorudugan

And Saint Omaku's Mercy. Still need a high Acc to reliably Hit. Sure, if Megaboss can stay enough under Entropy. This part is intended, granted you really need decent Acc to get +4s Spiritshift often enough, granted you also need to pause to recast Entropy from time to time. If you achieve all that, congratulations, you have a decent combo.

To be honest, Inner Death was probably the only way to make old Entropy relevant.

Not linked to mods AFAK buy maybe I made a mistake when I affirmated it was Wolf Form...