Lancer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah so, what's the point of your quotation? You say it seems statistics in RPGs only has an application in combat-related skills, and I've given you an example where it seems you're utterly wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I must say that I didn't quite get Roleplayer's connection between stats having an application just in combat-related skills either.

Out of curiosity, why the general animosity against the RPG Codex?

Go ask that girl out and get it off your chest.

Tell that to the designers of Warriors of the Eternal Sun DnD CRPG for the Sega Genesis. One of the best CRPGs ever done on console. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly. Not that you actually *need* a keyboard to play most PC-style RPGs. The 3 button Sega works just fine for Warriors of the Eternal Sun, Buck Rogers,Shadowrun, Rings of Power, Pirates!, Might and Magic...etc

Are you just comfort eating because you don't have a gf?

Whether or not they are sold with keyboards is irrelevant. That we do possess the technology to solve the interfacing "problem" with consoles is. If you don't get that, then you are quite shortsighted, indeed.

Now, you are just being silly. They can be made adaptable to them. And how much does a keyboard cost like 20 bucks? lol Here is a link for our skeptical friend.

You do know that you can already hook on USB Keyboards no problem with consoles right (i.e. look up the RPG Maker series on the PSx)? That is nothing that couldn't be solved with little effort.

Did you not read my previous post? These are things that can be worked on. Heck, the Sega Genesis has several quality PC-style RPGs on it, years ago.. And they very well did feel like games you would play on the PC. Why couldn't we do the same thing now? Why did we take a step backwards?

Why not on both? Especially now that developers have made the move over to consoles too? It would only ensure the genre's financial well-being in the long run. It would also boost PnP sales as well and vice-versa... I see nothing wrong with a more prosperous future for occidental RPGs on all fronts (be it tabletop or electronic media) Nothing wrong having a larger variety of games to choose from.

I have a dream... That every console will have a full-lineup of quality occidental RPGs..And the world will rejoice... I have a dream...

And this is *exactly* the sort of issues that need tweaking as we (hopefully) strive to make RPGs on consoles more and more like those on the PC. I want to see more than just Dark Alliance clones on console. I want real RPGs too.

You misunderstand. As I clearly pointed out in the initial post, the aim of this thread is not to attempt to define what is a roleplaying game. As the very first paragraph stated <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, a misunderstanding, obviously. :"> But this is still quite *related* to the whole "what is an RPG argument.." Since I believe that the defining attribute of a RPG is the character's ability to interact with other NPCs and gameworld with actions that influence both, I'd prefer to see more emphasis on the this aspect of it since I believe it to be the more important component in delivering a truly meaningful gaming experience. But, in all honesty, I like to have stat-based gameplay added in as well because the more control I have over my character, the better.

Oh.. Not another "What is an RPG?" thread...You know there is no answer. Why, Roleplayer, Why? Anyhow, this is related to the big debate we had here when Ender was still around in regards to whether or not stat-based gameplay was the defining characteristic of computer RPGs. I disagree, as I believe a RPG is simply a game in which the character's skills, actions, and decisions influence the gameworld, story and/or those around him in a significant manner. As a result, character progression via interaction with other NPCs and/or the gameworld is the more important factor with stat-based gameplay, battles, or even the ability to create one's own character from scratch being just useful additions. Since the underlying motive behind PC RPGs is to mimic the tabletop experience as closely as possible, and being that there are quite a few tabletop RPGs that are not dominated by stat-based gameplay (or battles) at all, makes me believe there is no reason why PC RPGs need to require character progression via a well-defined statistical system. Pirates! Gold is an excellent example of what I personally deem as an RPG although it doesn't have very strong stat-based gameplay.

You are suggesting Obsidian, Bioware or whomever to create only action RPGs on consoles which would give them the established funds required for their less mainstream projects (i.e original IPs, or "real" RPGs)on the PC? I have no problem companies delving into the creation of different types of RPGs at once (including action ones), but the point is that later down the line I want to see a whole slew of quality PC-style RPGS on consoles as well... In addition, to those on the PC. "Real" RPGS shouldn't just exist on PC. With console hardware limitations becoming less and less of an issue (i.e. Morrowind, KotOR), I don't see why console aficionados couldn't eventually be treated to the more profound RPGs that PC gamers have for so long enjoyed. In all honesty, I want PC-style RPGs to compete on some level with the overabundance of JRPGs on the market. It would be wonderful to see Obsidian or Bioware knock Square-Enix out of supremacy and for JRPGS to become the "niche" market.. But then, I'd just be dreaming.

Maybe a modern remake of Buck Rogers?

Deus Ex was definitely a fun title. I am looking forward to playing its spiritual predecessor , System Shock 2, in a few weeks

I-broke-wind Dale sucks

It should be noted that a game can be an action RPG and have an intricate storyline, good character interaction, dialogue, and lots of customizability. That's what I think Obsidian is trying to do with PNJ. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A dungeon crawl with an intricate storyline, good character interaction, good dialogue, and lots of customizability? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why not? Although I'm thinking of something like a mixture of Mark of Kri with Torment. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know.. I don't know what I would make of something like that yet, if that is true. I would imagine it might be more palatable though the repetitive combat would probably get on my nerves after a while... we'll see.

It should be noted that a game can be an action RPG and have an intricate storyline, good character interaction, dialogue, and lots of customizability. That's what I think Obsidian is trying to do with PNJ. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A dungeon crawl with an intricate storyline, good character interaction, good dialogue, and lots of customizability?

Of course not. But they proved that "real" RPGs could sell with the right combination of marketing, advertisement, production values, and brand names. The problem is that there is no guarantee that those mainstream titles will be a commercial success, either. Bioware was on the right track with KotOR and even Jade Empire. I say, there is no reason to stop now. I want console gamers to appreciate good occidental RPGs and the only way to do that is to give them good occidental RPGs. By giving them action RPGs first you are setting the tone for the market that, those are the type of games your company is known for. By sending them this message, by the time they get around to playing your first profound "IP" game (later down the road), you may end up confounding much of your established fan base expecting another hack and slash title.

Being motivated to do more action RPGs doesn't mean the financial success they provide will only motivate them to develop action RPGs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How about financial success from creating "real" RPGs of the quality of KotOR, Baldur's Gate, or Fallout? In the case of the first two, they both sold really well without having to be action RPGs. If the goal is to create profound RPGS that are less mainstream then why make more mainstream action RPGs to achieve this? It seems to be counterproductive to the intended motive. It is not like the market isn't already saturated with them.

I'm tired of the hack and slash games that are only called RPGs just because they utilize D&D rules. I want an RPG with an intricate storyline, good character interaction, dialogue, and lots of customizability.

This is true fortunately.

I'm hoping that Obsidian are capable of creating action RPGs that sell well in the hopes the profit will enable them to develop unique and less mainstream CRPGs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If their action RPGs sell well that will only spur them to make even more action RPGs.