peddroelm

Not a proper test yet still it looks promising. (BTW I took a look at some DOT abilities .. WS, RWS, wounding propriety on weapon, deep wounds .. they seem to work properly in 3.04 ..) Combo Runner's Wounding Shot with stealth SneakAttack + Backstab on rogue. (the 80% RAW damage of RWS is calculated of DamageafterDR multiplied again with might mod). It might seem MightMod doesn't do much for rogue damage output in comparison with the rest of the damage bonuses they can get, but if you wanna mess with any kind of DOT effect ( RWS, deepwounds, envenomed strike, etc ..) that get multiplied by the MightMod again you stand to lose tons of damage without high MightMod .. Combat log example with "white" pistol. (but the potential is visible) (RWS) (Crit) 95.3 - (DR:7.0-6.0) = 94.3 pierce damage (crit/sneak/backstab). target Hobbled (for further deathblows) + 84.5 RAW damage // 94.3 * 0.8 * 1.12 = 84.4928 RWS won't get SA or backstab bonus from shadowing beyond invisibility, you can also use RWS without invisibility/stealth/backstab and it works kind of decent with SA + deathblows but it takes time to do its work and the target might die before the DOT gets applied. Second combat log example with lashed annihilating Dulcanale pistol and 20 Might: (RWS) (Crit) 120.6 - (DR:7.0-9.0) = 120.6 pierce damage (crit/sneak/backstab) + 29.3 corrode target Hobbled (for further deathblows) + 125.5 RAW damage // 120.6 * 0.8 * 1.3 = 125.424 total damage: 120.6 + 29.3 + 125.5 = 275.4 I do intend to re-test the rogue damage abilities with constant damage weapon so I'll update this at some point ..

... current game version 3.04 much of the above tests results thus obsolete.... did a quick test to clarify primary elemental type of damage weapons and elemental perks for the damage formula. Scion of Flame will add 20% additive damage bonus to Firebrand burning sword and multiplicative 1.2 to burn lashes. (was expecting/hoping to be multiplicative for weapon damage. Very likely the bonus to spell damage is also additive .. ) Presumably spirit of decay will add 20% additive damage bonus to Bittercup sabre (slightly weakened by the sabre nerf ) .. test numbers: 30-30 firebrand test listed 63-63 30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 +0.3) = 63 30% might 15% 2handed 20% savage attack modal 45% damage 3 50% annih on crit 20% sworn enemy situational scion of flame 20% for burn weapon and for burn lash 50% FOD burn lash 30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 +0.3) = 63 60 damage graze 30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.2 - 0.5) = 60 // bonus is additive 105 crit 30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 1) = 105 //// 54 graze (no more sworn enemy) 30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2 - 0.5) = 54 // savage attack turned off 30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2) = 63 // 63 BONUS IS ADDITIVE //FOD crit 93.0 -DR:4.0 = 89.0 burn + 54.8 burn 30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 1) = 93 93 * 0.5 * 1.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 54.8

yesterday's quick fix ".. and adjusting one item (nerf .) We are dropping the proc chance of 'The Unlabored Blades' Firebug from 10% to 3%. .." https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/90146-304-hotfix/?do=findComment&comment=1859441

Lash damage works vs 0.25 target DR vs lash damage type even if the target is immune to the weapon's damage type. So in theory monks could use lashes (turning wheel, lightning strike, blood testament, etc) to kill crush immune targets with fists.. In practice this is much more viable to rogues that actually have the damage bonuses to make that work than on monks that lack solid damage bonuses ..

possibly to be this ANCIENT bug/feature: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79763-bug-1060586-min-dmg-to-higher-level-oozes/?do=findComment&comment=1695068 some enemies get extra +X damage on minimum hits.

like I said POTD will provide plenty of wounds, especially with no shield ... But there MIGHT be a minor benefit to lesser wounds with iron wheel (late game ability) ..getting high DR before receiving too much damage. I'm probably overestimating the magnitude of this effect .. what is that 10 more endurance in the very unlikely best case scenario ? That is next to nothing at that level .. Might test it at some point and put the matter to rest ..

They do pull their weight in a six melee party ( durability, abilities and damage). Lesser wounds syncs best with iron wheel at high level (gets you the high DR faster) .. Otherwise POTD will provide plenty of wounds, especially with no shield ...

in my melee parties (early to mid game) barb leads damage by a landslide. Then comes the rogue with solid advantage above the rest. Then fighter, monk , ranger and paladin dead last .. But it also has to do with playstyle and party composition .. I do things a certain way (put very priority in positioning the barb where he can deal most damage, upgrade his estoc first , etc .. ). Extra care given to have the rogue join later, flank and dice for maximum effect.. Monk could definitely do more if I was better at positioning her in a position to get wounds and have plenty of tourment's reach targets in range.. I'm trying : ) ..She does start to shine brighter once she gets a few more levels and special abilities.. And my monk build focuses on things like stun fist (fortitude check), enervating blows (fortitude? hit check again), my melee party has few ways of debuffing defenses (could cheese scrolls or caster apprentice abilities but then what's the point of playing a melee party ) so the few abilities that can inflict status effects are very precious to me and I need to maximize their accuracy ..

..while working on my new PoE damage mechanics compendium (which might never be ready for public release ) I dug up another one of my old posts : " ..The accuracy from transcendent suffering does: -NOT matter for: flaggelant's path (since very few things except char level affect its chance to hit). -NOT work for (most monk special attack to Hit checks) unlike +accuracy on actual weapons: force of anguish (prone), stunning blows (stun), torments reach AOE cone hits, Enervating blows (weaken), rooting pain AOE. On top of that, endgame unique weapons can get extra enchantments like lash, annihilation, drain , coordinating .. Dual fist loses by a significant margin to endgame unique weapons .. .."

I personally couldn't care less about this Tyranny thing ATM. Been working on some sort of damage mechanics/abilities compilation post (probably no revelations for veteran players) and I might even publish it if I ever get it past halfway complete ..

The class that feels the "nerf" the hardest is the melee Rogue (mid to end game) . No other class comes close to the amount of damage bonuses melee rogues can stack. And that is before the finishing blow multiplicative component ... It also ever so slightly lowers the effectiveness of the Chanter's party lash burn aura of which again sabre melee rogue was the main benefactor..

falsish alarm. On game restart/reload the plain sabre also gets ruffian accuracy bonus ..

do plain sabres get ruffian accuracy bonus in your games ? EDIT game restart fixed it

party AI OFF (..and thank god for that !) . "Party Member finishes ability" doesn't catch everything. Many times ( often when the terribad pathing gives up) your characters end up wasting ticks .. Even more infuriating when it happens to multiple chars surrounded by possible targets. As it is I need to (on top of everything else) constantly be on the look out of the action indicator to spot loafers .. Such a huge help and simple to implement convenience option still not in the game at version 3.4 ... (context: I play a no tank glass cannony full melee party + pet. Battle time cannot be wasted. Kill them before they kill us philosophy )

When I did test this (~ 1.04) the cone damage hits were benefiting from on weapon accuracy. The main reason I've never used unarmed (main attack) damage monks so far. Also annihilation on weapon applied to torment's reach crits. (extra reason to ditch fists) it was linked above .. 73 accuracy TR AOE with fist // lvl 10 monk +12 accuracy to fist from transcendent suffering did not transfer to TR AOE 85 accuracy TR AOE with Blade of Endless Paths (superb weapon) 73 + 12 87 accuracy TR AOE with We Toki ( knight weapon focus + excellent weapon ) 73 + 6 + 8 91 accuracy TR AOE with Edge of Reason ( knight weapon focus + superb weapon ) 73 + 6 + 12 94 accuracy TR AOE with We Toki ( knight weapon focus + excellent weapon + fighting spirit ) 73 + 6 + 8 + 7 98 accuracy TR AOE with Edge of Reason ( knight weapon focus + superb weapon + fighting spirit ) 73 + 6 + 12 + 7 ..

Still work in progress party plan... ( just say NO!! to shields 2 2handed users and 4 dual wielders kill them before they kill us) .. Might run a few tests on the skills I'm not sure about before starting the run.. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dIOrSAfTOra_ZPIF2bAOE375PM5MGNVloVQDzkPw_pQ/edit?usp=sharing

Speaking of testing - I might wanna re-check some things , including DOTs .. Have the damage mechanics testing methods gotten any easier - or will I still have to do it the "hard way" ? ( eliminate base weapon damage RNG, enabling full damage log via breakpoints .. etc )?

If the unarmed damage bonus from Novice's Suffering works like the unarmed damage bonus from Transcended Suffering used to work (and might still work this way I just haven't test it lately) this damage it is added separately and is modified ONLY by might. Going from memory, again, unarmed damage for non-monks had very low base damage and didn't scale with level ups. And since all melee damage modifiers (graze, crit, carnage, OSA, various hater perks, etc etc etc) are summed and applied to the base damage - they didn't end up having much of an effect in the end...

Chanter > Rogue in this party . Agreed. Sometimes I used to drop the ranger for a chanter but - thematically it doesn't make sense for me for this party (heavy melee focus - non-casters). + Check my signature - I have a softspot for high damage numbers in the combat log . (the burn there was from chanter aura..) Weapons on Monk. Back in the day the accuracy from transcendent suffering did not apply to torment's reach cone hits. The battle axe extra critical multiplier was applied to torment's reach cone hits. I'm not aware of fixes for any of those issues. What about torment reach + bash (lower accuracy again ?). (missing weapon focus and on weapon accuracy ? ) http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78239-abilities-various-other-damage-related-mechanics-revealed/page-4?do=findComment&comment=1691371 high con and might are givens on my monks. Ranger Stunning shots. That's probably the main reason why I was considering dual wield. Still fortitude check is not easy to make. (perhaps barbarian sickness could be of help ). For the rogue it would really irk me to lose the 2 ability checks when using a 2 handed weapon. Much better chances to apply the condition with 2 checks instead of 1.

@Boeroer thanks for the pointers dual wpn Fighter sold! Shieldbearer Paladin sold! Shield on Monk .. hmm How does that work with stunning blow (full attack) ? 1 or 2 attacks ? Bash attack will have poor accuracy ? (did they ever fix the annihilation bug for torment's reach ? ( http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78239-abilities-various-other-damage-related-mechanics-revealed/page-4#entry1691371 ) Barbarian .. Isn't barbaric blow also full attack ? I liked using estocs back in the day since you could stack disorient on multiple foes with carnage ( your concern my party would lack AOE deflection reduction ) https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79544-1050567-disorienting-debuff-5-all-defenses-stacks-with-itself-bug-or-wad/ did they ever fix this ? googling my old thread for link .. apparently they did change it somehow ...not clear from thread.. Ranger .. (marked prey is still a 20% main weapon damage type lash ? ). Why was I considering dual weapons on this guy ? (wounding shot also prefers 2h weapons) shield on Rogue !? But what about their truckload of full attack abilities ? (I agree they drop like flies and perfectly understand where you're coming from. I also recall having issues with Ranger survivability back in the day)

I'm thorn between outworn buckler + 1 handed weapon + lay on hands and "strange mercy" + 2 handed weapon (tidefall) microed for FoD killshot heals. (don't "waste" FoDs on opening shot, save them for precious tactical heals) Atm I'm leaning towards the second option.

I'm back to PoE after a long hiatus (I left before version 2.0 since I tend to have issues with games still under heavy development - with no stable metagame and with reported bugs not fixed for months ). EDIT found a post about my previous PoE party composition preference https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79271-building-a-melee-party/#entry1687837 EDIT While the metagame has probably crystallized for the most part some of the early bugs still run amok and new ones were added . To the task at hand. I want to use a non-caster, melee heavy ALL HUMAN party for a POTD run with both add-ons : Paladin(MC), Fighter, Monk, Barb, Ranger and Rogue. Party AI always off ( at least there is an option to turn it off now) I don't mind the mountains of micro-management it will bring. Past those requirements I'm a bit lost. Starting stats, perks , equipment/items ... Will I need to sacrifice my fighter's damage output (how badly ?) or can I get by with a party of glass cannons ? (ideally) . I accept situational use of ranged weapons but would prefer all characters to be heavily melee specced . Example: early early early draft (Great Sword ??) (Wayfarer??) Paladin (tank ?? DPS balance tank ?? DPS balance early game .. later ? ) Fighter (tank ?? DPS balance early game .. later ? ) (shield // 2h // dual ???) Monk (dual swords/axe ) Barb (long reach weapon - which one? for better carnage application . Some of his abilities work best dualing ? HoF .. respec later? ) (estocs also have the advantage of multiplying the DR reduction via carnage ...) Ranger (dual weapons? which weapons? ) + wolf Rogue (dual nerfed scimitars ? // dual axes ??) Backup weapons for fights with high DR vs their preferred damage type for each character ? Start the fights with blob on fighter(tank++) or as line ( fighter/pala/monk/pet/summons with flankers joining after the initial engagements ) ? No need for brevity .

Backstab modifer WILL NOT APPLY when breaking stealth with special attacks ( ex blinding strike // crippling strike // etc). It only works for auto-attacks. Bug report filed and acknowledged several months ago ..

Keep bashing it then .. maybe in 2.0 there is a way to totally turn off character AI . (haven't tried it yet)

press "X" to clear the invisible AI filled unit order queue. (will stop your testing unit auto attacking interfering with your test )