Manty5

I'd go with the reach weapons, either pike or quarterstaff. Striking from behind a tankier character lets you carry lighter armor than you'd normally be able to get away with, which translates to a large DPS increase. I'd go with pike, since you spread stuns on crit with Tall Grass, and the Soldier specilization lets you also carry greatswords in case you're forced into close combat, and one of those both drains endurance and has a speed modifier. That's two of the best 2h weapons in the game for hitting multiple enemies. This strategy also negates many of the problems Barb's mediocre deflection (and worse with Frenzy) causes. IMO, a pikebearer wearing a really good robe and a blunting belt is at least as survivable and damaging as a plate-wearing sabre friontliner.

My understanding is that dots from the SAME source never stack, but ones from different sources do. So you'd need two different weapons, each able to apply a DoT, in order to have two weapon-based DoTs

these points kinda contradict each other.. dual wield stilleto with 2 weapon style + swift strikes > Quarterstaff with swift strikes or is it equal? but from playing monks i noticed that torment's reach seem to be its own unique weapon with its own attack animation + recovery frames regardless of weapon choice/style. They don't contradict each other, and probably for the very reason that you cite. Swift Strikes and 2-weapon style both increase all weapon speed, provided you satisfy the conditions for them to activate (for SS, you spend a wound. For DW, you hold 2 weapons). Since they affect all weapons, they also affect the Torment's reach weapon. But the fact that stiletto has a fast cooldown doesn't force the torment's reach weapon to have a fast cooldown. I think I'm explaining that right, but not sure. The inherent weapon test was a separate test using separate characters from the SS+DW versus no SS+DW test, so at no point did I test SS+DW with a quarterstaff.

You know, If we're going to be emphaizing the warrior side of Cipher more than in previous versions, then what's the excuse not to seriously drop the casting cost times one stage each? You already have something limiting how fast you dump your spells... the focus gain. So why not let the cipher cast and then get right back to hitting people with his weapon? Spell speed limitations make a lot more sense on classes whose only limit on their number of spells is the total number per rest or encouter. But Cipher is a hybrid. It needs to hit stuff constantly, not hit-hit-(Oh, we need to cast. Time for a tea break!) then back to hit-hit again... There's even a lore justification: "While wizards use complex formulae in large tomes and priests tap into the passion of their faith, ciphers are able to operate directly through the power of their minds... and yours" That sounds to me like ciphers can operate directly and swiftly with their abilities. Frigging mind-ninjas who lash out with their abilities almost without pausing from their swordplay. This would speed up focus regeneration (because you're spending a greater percentage your your time HITTING SOMETHING) to somewhat offset the lesser focus gain. So let most spells be dropped one category of speed, and make currently "fast" spells into nigh instant. We've already got focus controlling the spam, so why not? It'd still be less OP than the wizzie's haste. Edit: Yes I know Cipher already has many fast spells. What I'm saying is make casting time not distract a cipher from his physical attacks.

Okay, using my FAR less scientific method (roll a bunch of monks with stats setup to give stark differences, attack 1-2 Paths level 4 ogres with a hobbling bow rogue, then while the ogres approach give themselves wounds, then unleash simultaneous TR's (watching for enemy interrupts of course)... here's what I discovered: 1. Dexterity test, 2 dex dorf versus 20 dex elf: Plainly noticeable difference: The elf was able to belt out the TR's far faster than the dorf. 2. Armor Malus test, -5 robes versus -50 plate: Plainly noticeable difference. 3. Random note: For the above 2 tests, the ability to give yourself wounds was also affected by the speed bonuses/malus. 4. Weapon ability test: One char with both swift strikes and 2-weapon style, the other without. Plainly noticeable difference. 5. Weapon's inherent speed test: Fast versus medium: Undetectable difference. Just for kicks, I ran a quarterstaff against dual stiletto: The TR cooldown difference was ALSO unnoticable. Interesting. 6. Weapon Focus effect on TR's AOE accuracy confirmed. I never really had a doubt about that, but checking just the same... Interesting question: Since weapon speed appears to not affect TR, I wonder if a build that uses high int/might, 2h weapon focus and savage attack might cause a great deal of AOE damage in exchange for less wound spending speed penalty than you'd otherwise think. EDIT: Tried a 2h/savage attack barb and checking the AOE damage. Either I'm reading the combat log wrong or it isn't giving enough detail for me to tell if the 1.2 damage effect is applying. Maybe I'd need to mod the ability's weapon to a constant value to tell.

There are a couple of nice paladin-only shields, and you can swap from one to another (with some weapon switch penalty time). So lets say your paladin's set is Weapon Focus: Soldier. You could use either greatsword or arquebus as your dispenser of Flames of Conviction, then go back to warhammer and shield. For barbarian, the one I like the best is the reach weapons (quarterstaff and pike). You can more safely sacrifice some defense for damage if you're in the second row instead of the first. My personal recommendation: Pale Elf, Hearth Orlan or Boreal Dwarf Quarterstaff Barb with Frenzy, two-handed style and high int/dex/str in medium-light armor just in case the second lines become the front lines. If you have higher power than speed, use quarterstaff. If you focus on speed, use pike. The reason is the weapons you'll find for each (blunt is a better damage type, and one of the best pikes applies a certain effect to everyone you crit with your multi-hits. And as someone on these forums explained to me... ignore the sickness giving and fortitude-targeting talents and grab all the accuracy you can. Trust me.

I would review it as the ranged rogues have much less attack rating then ranger Have you even read the thread before posting in it?

In their defense, a melee rogue has a LOT more survivability and unlike a pet, will actually have a prayer of surviving a disengage attempt. So while either may need rescuing, it's going to be a lot easier and a heck of a lot more profitable to keep the rogue up. My main difficulty with the ranger/rogue debates is that you can't count only the bonuses and not the risks and penalties in something so fragile as a pet being in the perfect position to attack the enemy that you want to shoot from an angle that allows driving flight, yet somehow the pet isn't being focused enough by these at least 2 nearby enemies to die from the attention. Depending on the Pet being always able to attack the exact right target throws away the freedom to choose targets that is the whole point of being ranged instead of reach in the first place. Perhaps part of the difference is how people use them... if you are always using doorways you can control how many come through, so as long as you only shoot one of the lead guys, you can be confident of getting pet accuracy plus driving flight. In other words, if you use your ranger like a gimped pike barbarian. But aside from the first couple of shots, I'm using my warbow rogue to nail archers/wizards that are too spread out or distant to be easily eliminated with spells. A ranger can do that, but 90% of the time driving flight and probably the pet will be useless if that's what he's doing. The only thing I could think of that a pet-using ranger could do better than a pike barb or melee rogue is stunlock the lead enemy in a doorway if they're using hunting bow. IMO you'd be better off ignoring the pet and concentrating on being the best gun user in the game, but then you'd have to abandon the "most accurate in game" claim.

Oh... Some of the testing detail on these forums is so precise that I didn't seriously consider the possibility that this wasn't already known information, and please accept my apologies if I sounded petulant or ungrateful. It's just that I'm not confident enough in my ability to lock my FPS and count frames (I've never even used FRAPS) in order to do a good test. The only thing I'd be able to do is make a party of monks with various setups and let them fight side by side and hope the difference is obvious enough to tell from just that. Maybe it would be. The difference between 3 dex and 20 is pretty large, and so is the difference between plate mail and nakedness. Also I think that swift strikes and two-handed fighting would either both affect it, or neither will so I could stack both on one character and compare it with one without this.

Do folks seriously not know the specifics I asked above? Or is the answer so obvious that the people who do know feel I don't merit a reply?

I love how people always talk about how wonderful ranger accuracy is on POTD difficulty and forget to mention the little detail that the pet has to survive the hordes of mobs that the mode throws at you to ever see it actually apply. So when a ranger acolyte starts throwing numbers at you: 1. Subtract 10 acc from his claims if he's smart enough to not send the pet into battle. 2. Subtract 16 acc from his claims if he's not (bonded grief). 3. If he reserves the pet for leakers, subtract driving flight because enough leakers to make driving flight work is enough to kill the pet. 4. If the pet survives and is useful, then it was a trivial encounter anyway.

Have you considered pistol/blunderbuss with close-range talent? Shotguns ARE melee weapons

Suggestions? Well if you're allowing no casters at all, then you need another source of healing and buffing/debuffing. You want a Kind Wayfarer DPS paladin (preferably with a reach weapon) and a high-int chanter in that mix, methinks. Also consider getting spellholding items and scrolls. Choose which characters max survival and which ones max Lore. All characters should have 2 Lore for level 1 scrolls, which are cheap and effective. Give the Barb Survival so he can chug accuracy potions before big fights, and give the buff scrolls to any tanks with low might/high int. Edit: Oh, and have you considered using a figurine summons as your echo target?

Indeed. Next question?

An ability or talent for you to take, But only for another's sake, Both death and life, in one fell blow, The benevolent one leaves a feast for crow. What am I?

Since you have a list of what dexterity affects, what about what armor malus affects?

Let me see if I understand this correctly: Torment's reach has 2 "weapons": The first weapon hits your primary target, and is a full attack +50% crush lash, plus whatever weapon effects you have on both of your weapons. The second weapon is like a weapon whose damage is wholly independant from the ones you are wielding, The additive damage from strength is confirmed to work with it but the DR from vulnerable attack is confirmed NOT to work with it. So, the questions that I have about the AOE weapon are: 1. What affects the recovery speed of the Torment's reach ability? a. Dexterity? b. Armor Malus? c. Swift strikes? d. two-weapon talent? e. vulnerable attack (as a penalty)? f. Weapon speed? (would dual stiletto let you dump wounds into Torment rather quickly?) 2. Since strength affects the damage of the AOE weapon, wouldn't other additive damage-increasing abilities like Savage Strike do so as well? It seems to me that if you didn't care about the damage to the primary target, you could drop an enemy on its butt with a FoA (assuming you aimed the push to not actually move him) then activate SS, dual-wield fast vampiric weapons and spam all your remaining Torment while sucking up HP from the proned victim.

Sickened: –20 Will, –20 Fortitude, –1 Perception, –1 Constitution, –1 Intellect, –1 Dexterity, –1 Might, –1 Resolve Weakened: –2 Might, –20 Will, –20 Fortitude, –2 Move Speed, –2 Constitution, Allows Rogue Sneak Attack That's from the wiki. If you have better information than the wiki, especially information about debuffs not stacking, please consider creating an account there and updating it for the good of the new players.

Barbarian + Threatening Presence + Brute Force + its a trap I don't know what you mean by "It's a Trap", but painful interdiction grants weakened status to enemies, which combined with sickened is a total of -40 fort in an AOE. If that's not enough for the barb to start doing serious damage, you could always ask a accuracy-boosted mage for a ring of death encore =)

Lets not forget here that deflection is physical-only but DR reduces ALL attacks except raw. I'm not implying that you folks don't know this, but I feel that in the excitement of proving how great deflection is that we're easily ignoring the fact that it's a one-trick pony. Granted... it is a very NICE trick... =)

SS of a combat log proving this, please?

I think a lot of the nerfing could have been avoided or work even better if you just make mental binding a T3 spell.

I have some notes from when I had the same question as you. Assuming you bother to use whores (regular, not fiery) and resting bonuses, Here's what you'd need for 18 checks. The list of known checks info is based off of wiki, so it's badly outdated and incomplete. Apologies for the roughness, again it's a paste directly from my notes. So, for conversation purposes, you can get the following bonuses: Might: 2 from Lyriana, 2 from Dyrford for +4 total Con: 2 From Serel, 2 from Lyr, 1 from salty or 2 from Cyr for +5-6. need 16 AND rope for egg (!) (dyrford) Dex: 2 from Serel, 2 from Iquali, 2 from Goose for +6. Badly documented in wiki, need a high score to pickpocket key instead of fighting in dozens quest Per: 2 from Aldwyn, 2 from Cracker Barrel for +4 Bunch of checks up to 16 in Dyrford and crossing Int: 2 from Aldwyn, 4 from Cracker Barrel for +6 Needed in Dyrford and Dyford crossing, mostly (18-14) Res: 2 from Biggo, 2 from Gilded Vale or 1 from Goose for 3-4 Used a lot, but wiki out of date.18 needed for early eder Lore: 1 From Ald, 2 from Goose for 3. Athletics: Recommend 3 for everyone. (there are party-wide checks on this stat) Survive: 1 from Biggo or Orico, 1 from Cracker Barrel for +2 5 check at dyrford ogre So for 18's without equipment, you need 14 might, 12-13 con, 12 dex, 12 int, 14 per, 14-15 res (of course getting all this is impossible without cheating or items) Assuming you keep enough +2 equipment, that'll take you to 20's for extremes So you choose which checks you want to pass and make sure you have at least that much.

> Has obsidian rendered the game unplayable with 1.05 No. Next question?

Will, Reflex, Deflection, and Fortitude are all defensive in nature only. So priests need int for making their buffs and debuffs last longer and might for magnitude on heals and attack spells. ACCURACY is what a priest needs to land his spells with hits and crits instead of grazes and misses. One of the strongest ways to boost (effective) accuracy is to debuff the specific defense that you're about to roll against. For skills: * every char should have at least 2 Athletics and the frontliners should have more. Because fatigue penalties really suck. * One character MUST have high mechanics, but all the other characters can skip it. * Your background choices in character creation can be very important. It's easier to reach high levels of a skill with the right background. * Having a party-wide 2-4 stealth lets you bypass encounters you don't want to fight and pre-position yourself advantageously. * Lore and Survival: Lore has a lot of dialog options in the game associated with it, Survival has less. Since both affect consumables, and you only have 4 slots for them, I'd recommend choosing 3 of your chars to have high lore for the scrolls, and 3 of your chars to have high survival for the potions. Advanced tips: * Priests get no bonus to the mechanic skill, but they have some of the best spell-traps. If you build one instead of using durance, consider choosing a mechanics background and make him your trapper, because the skill will also boost his spell traps. * Give your Mechanics char more stealth than the party average. Then he can get closer to the enemy when pre-placing item-based traps, and he can skulk around friendly homes and palaces, robbing them blind without getting caught. * Consider giving all characters 2 lore. That costs 3 skill points maximum and grants access to level 1 scrolls. Level 1 scrolls are not weak. * I personally feel that scrolls are better for single-target characters and frontliners, while survival is better for casters and barbs. Why? Accuracy potions affect the fight much more when you're making several attacks at once.