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well, i don't think God's ways are mysterious. lol. i don't think God is wrong at all. i have said a few times before that God is the definition of "good" since He invented it and "sin" is all that is apart from Him. I believe that there is an absolute truth and that people interact with it on a subjective level. and when people agree on certain things and verify them over and over again then it is just as good as truth: i.e. the force of gravity. we don't know exactly what it is, but it seemingly happens to all of us, so we just accept it as a truth.

thanks. if i was never challenged, what good would my faith be?

No. Socrates is not necessary for your worldview. Jesus is necessary for my worldview. if socrates was necessary for your worldview, then i would pity you, but i would still respect your views. What the idiot psuedonym was saying in my other post was random things all conglomerated into one that suited him best. at least my worldview is backed up with a thousand and a half year old book that many smart people believe in. i also feel that it is inspired by God Himself as do many others when we read it. edit: so what is the "truth"? at least i believe it actually is the truth and have no doubt about it. i am simply confused about people that know what they believe may not be true and they don't care if it is true or not, which is what i think started this in the first place.

You really know truth. Your smarter then Socrates! (w00t) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> do you know as truth that Socrates existed? Or isn't he just a character in Plato's writings? but anyway, of course i am smarter than Socrates. i could beat him in chess any day.

yeah, i intentionally got a lot of stuff about all the religions wrong when i wrote the last part. it was just to get people thinking about how there are people who do things like that: make their own religion that is totally without truth and not even caring either. edit: i certainly wasn't trying to flame or skew any other religion. like i said, it is just an example of some people's beliefs.

Duh, thats why we invaded Iraq, rememeber? ... Is it me, or would everyone but Canadians benifit if the US invades........ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey! stop giving away the top-secret plans! :ph34r:

not according to my psuedonymous idiot character, he can believe whatever he wants. he even says so (it's part of his religion). the truth can die for all he cares.

I side with Mothie on this one. Jesus will be the judge of that. As for my opinion, works can't save you. good deeds are works. that won't save you. is it a waste? well, if you were doing those works to get to heaven, then yes, because that won't work for you. but Christians are still commanded to do the good works, because that is why they were created, it glorifies God: Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." If you want to ignore reality! that's why, of course. Why would they not care if it is right!? that is very disturbing. I know many people would agree with me that extremist terrorists are a result of that, among some other reasons. I don't understand why one wouldn't want the truth. this boggles my mind. "They simply follow the belief system that suits them best" humans are lazy creatures... example: i will make a religion that is best for me. okay, let's see, we have that jesus from christianity, he's a nice character, i'll take some of that. and then in other religions they don't meet all the time every week, so i will take that. i dont want to meet every stinking week! i am a busy person you know. there are things that are very important to me. i don't care if the things i do aren't important to anybody's "true God", that doesn't bother me. and whatever i do will be considered good deeds in my religion, and it'll also be my "manifest destiny" too. and screw other people, this is about me and only me. next there is buddhism, and i like that reincarnation idea, so i will take that one, but i will definitely be a super rich person in my next life, because that is just what i will put in my religion. and those buddha statues look cool, like, i can't stop looking at them and talking about them because they are so cool, better than any other statues for sure. i will call mine "Jay Lent" because i like that one funny guy on tv at night (jay leno) and i also want it to be a catholic sacrament as well (lent). wow, my religion is shaping up to be very convenient for me. hmm, what else. oh, islam, if i ever kill somebody on accident or on purpose, they will be considered infidels in my religion, and i will have lots of virgins when i go to heaven, and i'll go there when i die, but that is after i am reincarnated as a rich man...*stares at Jay Lent statue* wow that statue is so cool. it is made of jade you know. alright, i will also be a god, like in mormonism i think. i will get my own planet and stuff. i'll make it so my religion can be the same as anybody else's at any time, so if they ever ask about it, i will just say we believe the same thing. it changes as i go about my day. And i almost forgot! Jedi are so cool. i will be one with the force when i die for a while because i get to be a blue ghost and i can walk through all sorts of walls and statues, like Jay Lent *fawns at Jay Lent*. and when i am rich in my next life i will get a lightsaber, single bladed, no, double, yeah, double bladed with a blue crystal. i will think of more stuff later, but for now, this religion is the best for me.

What else is symbolism? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is one of the places where a fundamentalist Christian and a Christian that is not fundamentalist would disagree. It just seems like, when you read the passage, that it isn't talking about long periods of time, rather, a day as we know it (the original text's word for "day" is the equivalent of a morning to night cycle.

Baley you never cease to make me laugh. We talked about this verse in a thread long ago, and i am sure you read it, which is why i laugh. here is what i said about it in the response to the quote fourth down: here

i didn't think so, but i gtg now. i'll pick it up later

lol

Exactly he's lazy and good for nothing. If he were a parent he'd be in gaol. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the emphasis is on "justly". if you think that the OT God ever existed then why would you assume He with all His power just suddenly lost it or became lazy? That is one of the more illogical things i have heard you allude to.

Okay, the Olde testament God is the same God in the NT. Read Malachi and you will see why He stopped being active in the world. He has justly left us to our own devices. Malachi was written, and then i think 300 years later John the Baptist comes along saying that the Messiah has come. the 300 year period drought in the Bible makes sense to me, since God finished what He needed to say in Malachi until the next relevant event (very relevant, that is, Jesus). Now THAT is my kind of signature

There shouldn't even be an argument, he totally did that on purpose. at any time he could've stopped his force lightning from killing himself and used a force push instead or something.

First, i would like to apologize to Kumq for spamming up his thread with religious debate. and now for the apologetics: They never accepted Him though, so the fact that they reject Him means they never had Him, so they aren't children of God by faith, but they have always been children of God by the law, but we all know that the law cannot save one from their sins, since all have sinned and one sin=death according to the law. so their status as children of God by the law is only to serve as an endtime reminder that they rejected their own Messiah and aren't saved unless they accept Him. I do accept that you have to "accept Jesus into your heart" (i.e. believe that He payed the penalty for your sins and accept His sacrifice for your own acknowledged sins) in order to become a Child of God. But like i said in the previous paragraph, just because Jews are born children of God by the law doesn't automatically cause them to accept Jesus. Many haven't, some have. Why would Peter minister the gospel to the Jews if they were already saved? it is because they weren't already saved. They still needed Jesus like the gentiles did, and like everyone else did. just wondering, in what ways do you think he is lazy and incompetent?(so that i can refute as a Christian with the reason why i don't think He is lazy and incompetent)

very well then Walsy, i will start a new thread with my previous post so as to give context. Edit: The Religion + Other Views Thread

They never accepted Him though, so the fact that they reject Him means they never had Him, so they aren't children of God by faith, but they have always been children of God by the law, but we all know that the law cannot save one from their sins, since all have sinned and one sin=death according to the law. so their status as children of God by the law is only to serve as an endtime reminder that they rejected their own Messiah and aren't saved unless they accept Him. I do accept that you have to "accept Jesus into your heart" (i.e. believe that He payed the penalty for your sins and accept His sacrifice for your own acknowledged sins) in order to become a Child of God. But like i said in the previous paragraph, just because Jews are born children of God by the law doesn't automatically cause them to accept Jesus. Many haven't, some have. Why would Peter minister the gospel to the Jews if they were already saved? it is because they weren't already saved. They still needed Jesus like the gentiles did, and like everyone else did. just wondering, in what ways do you think he is lazy and incompetent?(so that i can refute as a Christian with the reason why i don't think He is lazy and incompetent)

you are probably right i already think the verses you speak of are in the Bible. but that's in the OT. however, even if it still applies, Jesus tells His believers to love others, all others, and that this is the second greatest commandment under loving God. and you love God by loving others, so that works out well. and you shouldn't love others in order to get rewarded, because after this one parable Jesus tells His followers: Luke 17:10 "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'" it is only what we ought to do, but God will still reward those who serve Him anyway because He is gracious that way and knows that it is hard to do. i am just saying that Christians who think they should be doing good things exclusively or especially to Jews are in the wrong, because #1- Jews are not the only chosen people anymore, #2- Jesus says to love others and doesn't say 'love only Jews' or 'love Jews specifically', #3- Bush makes mistakes... and so does everybody. you might say, "but his mistake is egregious", however, so are other people's mistakes. drop your armchair judgementality and actively try to change things if you want them different so badly.

What pass on his genetics or die ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> oh, it said die? i stopped reading when it said "pass on my genetics"

ah, the plot thickens. Kaf had a pic of himself? or was it from that show that Schmarth was talking about? if the show, then Kaf is watching the same show that Schmarth says is the, "only one Launch ever seems to refer to". Is there a connection or is it coincidence? maybe Kaf and Launch started the joke when they discovered that they both enjoyed the same show. however if Kaf's pic really was himself, which i think it was, then he should get a haircut. wait, he did!

agreed. so if one does something good to a chosen one of God, that is Christian or Jew, then you believe that they will recieve rewards/retribution? EDIT: lol, oh i see what you are saying, you are excluding Christians from children of God. and you are using juxtapose when saying one is a choice and the other is by birth. okay, then disagreed. we will never resolve this probably, but i still would like to see your verses for blessings when one does something good to the chosen people and then verses that refute who i say children of God are (i.e. christians and Jews).

funny picture, i thought it was one of yourself or something, because on that "your own picture thread" i remember somebody looked like that. I don't know where she is... but i miss her.

but which ones are they? anyway, i think it is the same, for here is another verse that backs up what i am saying: John 1:11-13 He [that is, Jesus] came to His own [that is, Jews], and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God , even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. Note that God gave his believers "the right to become children of God"

okay, here it is in better context. i don't see how this is confusing. Paul is talking about Christians, or sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. maybe you are talking about the last sentence in these verses. but you should note that it is conditional, "if you belong to Christ, then you are..." Galatians 3:26-29 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.