Blank

I'd be up for either one of those options. Sweet. Well that's 2 of us. Supposedly there are 21,557. Minus 21,540 to account for Hades' alt's, that should amount to 16 other possible forumites from whom we can recruit. Any other takers?

So I started this story for the 5-year Obsidian Fanfic competition a while back, and when I realized it totally sucked, I didn't finish it after getting halfway through. Calax's story soundly defeated what I had anyway I recently came back to my game of Neverwinter Nights 2 today, attempting to finish it (I got busy with school about a year ago and never did), so today I decided to finish the story I was writing as well, because apparently it was a day for me to finish things I began a year ago. Please give your candid opinions. I am by no means a good author, and I don't think I have the knack for it, but at least it was fun to finish writing and I'd like to hear what you all think. -------------------------------------------------------- From the Embers -by Blank The sunset cast a red hew upon the houses of Ember. From the fields, farmers led their cattle to the barn; and downtown, smiths began organizing the clutter accumulated throughout the day, preparing for another day of labour. Families gathered in their homes close to the fire, sitting down to a meager supper. Gahn watched the chimney smoke billow from the houses while he finished plowing his own field. His strong mule, Frank, began moving slower, sensing work

At Slug: It's great to hear you've had some success with your workout routine and eating habits. Keep it up. Sorry to hear about the lady. And don't be ashamed about getting some counseling from your university! Sometimes it helps for someone to listen, and for you to hear from them what you already know is going on but maybe haven't looked at in every way. At Shryke: Also sorry to hear about the lady. Maybe you can use the extra time to invest in something like what theslug is doing, as working out can give a boost of confidence when work and relationships are crappy. As for me, I started playing NWN2 again after about a year of not touching it. It got me thinking. I like it, but I wish we had done more together as a forum community with the game. I remember Eldar/Cantousant offered to DM one a while back when he had an idea for a module. Anyone interested in getting something going? Or just an old-fashioned pen and paper correspondence on the forum? We haven't had one of those since Ender's days. After Winter quarter I got an AA degree, which does nothing for me other than tell me I finished two years of college. I've been applying for universities. I'm planning on doing a pre-med undergrad, and I'll probably catch up on my missed Spring quarter by taking calculus or some other classes this Summer.

I was referring to the fact that Jesus acknowledged Satan is the current ruler of the world, whereas when he goes to hell it will be for his punishment.

I think Satan is the ruler of earth until Christ comes back, but nobody rules hell. Satan will be put there to be punished in the end, not rule it. Ephesians 2: 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Ephesians 6: 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. John 12: (after Jesus had prayed and God sent His voice) 30Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. 31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Revelation 20: 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This poster hopes to accurately represent the Biblical, Christian perspective of Satan and the Fall. Read a few passages about Satan and understand his motives and background: Revelation 12 1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Ezekiel 28 1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: 3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: 4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: 5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches: 6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; 7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. 8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas. 9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. 10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. 11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. Isaiah 14 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 1. Satan was an angel that led other angels astray Rev. 12:4. In the same verse, we see he wanted to prevent salvation for mankind by destroying Jesus. God will judge the devil and his angels for their actions, as seen in Revelation 20. Also, in Jude verse 6, Jude mentions the fallen angels chose to go out of their appropriate, God-given bounds, saying,

No.

I ****ing hope not. That's so annoying. Screw realism. If there's no gameplay difference between a lethal and a non lethal takedown, the choice becomes essentially meaningless. I'd guess that the there won't be a gameplay difference within the mission. (At best, the animation for non-lethal takedowns will take a little more time, thus presenting a greater risk of being spotted by some other enemy.) But we do know that in terms of mission results, perks, achievements, and faction influence, the decision whether to kill or to incapacitate/avoid will have some importance. I would prefer to have a non-lethal takedown option. This can be realistic if you consider that a spy will perhaps need to take as much time to stow away dead bodies as she would comatose, living bodies. Your rebuttal that non-lethal takedown stowing is noticeable can be countered by the fact that a dead body left in the middle of the hallway is just as noticeable. I recall Metal Gear Solid 2, where I beat a guard unconscious and stowed him in a locker. I could also kill him and stow his dead body there. Obsidian Devs can give player characters horse tranqs to use on foes that the spy recently made unconscious, that is, if the player needs more than 5 to ten minutes before that foe awakens and alarms (an estimation of regaining consciousness after losing air supply or getting smacked in the head). Finally, killing an enemy in a busy hall with a suppressed weapon can leave signs around the well-trafficked environment, such as spurts of blood on a wall about the height of a head. Choosing a non-lethal takedown minimizes chances of another enemy combatant discovering signs of infiltration. Yes, the body will need to be disposed of somewhere discreet, but that can be planned and worked out as well. We assume our spy is in peak physical condition, trained extensively in lifting awkward, heavy objects in the gym before the mission.

So, if you kill people in the name of god, god is real? I'm not buying that. Sorry. I think all he was trying to say is that he thinks faith ought not be discounted. I don't think he was endorsing a belief in an excuse for killing people.

I should have been more clear, I don't think it's bad as an analogy per se, but that it's a bad comparison because it kind of implies that there is something about religion which needs curing, along the lines of "take two lithium morning and night and you'll be an atheist in no time (actual results may vary)" Have to agree with Hurlshot, that second analogy is real nice. Ha, I see what you mean. That is definitely a glaring point where the analogy breaks down. And thanks about the second analogy, but I rather borrowed it from Edwin Abbot's, Flatland.

Sounds like a healthy plan. You have my support too, in the limited form it takes from this forum. I'm sure things will feel a lot better as you progress with your plan.

You have added great points to the discussion yourself, Hurls. I likewise thank you. Hey, let's have a pat on the back all around gentlemen. We've managed to discuss religion for 19 threads and not flame each other out.

That's an invalid implication- interviews can be conducted in a "scientifically valid" way (I've personally conducted them) but that in no way implies that the results of those interviews reflect scientific "truth", only that it reflects a statistically valid body of data. If you conducted interviews at the Salem Witch Trials you would (likely) end up with most of the interviews saying that the accused were witches and it would be scientifically accurate to say that. It would not though be accurate to say that this was proof that they actually were witches. As I don't think anyone has been arguing that belief in God is not a real belief your point is not really relevant. I'd also point out that putting belief in God in the same boat as diagnostic interviews for psycho-physical disorders like depression is inherently not a good point to make. I mostly agree with you. It's an important clarification to make between saying that my testimony that God exists is different than saying that God measurably exists and check out these calculations. But I disagree that the comparison to diagnostic interviews for psycho-physical disorders is poor as an analogy. As we have trust that there is actually such a disorder as depression (the physical mechanics are not completely understood or measured), and that the person explaining their symptoms agrees with the diagnostic tools for the disorder, why do we have such a difficult time saying that the God someone experiences can exist just as well? And the witness system I speak of is not so flawed as the Salem witch trials. I refer more to the type of witness your best friend has with you. If he says he really saw God and he wants you to take a think over it all once more, and he starts making drastic changes for the better in his life that would never have taken place before, how big of a jerk would you be to disregard the validity of his sense of reality? Again, as I said in my post, I don't think we can scientifically prove God or my faith, but science can simply mean "The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena," and as humans we can observe a relative measure of whether a person who professes faith has correlations with a changed life based on those beliefs. My life being different as a result of my faith is a phenomena. And those beliefs include the idea that the beliefs are reality. Yet again, we cannot scientifically determine if the beliefs are reality. But consider the following, inspired by Flatland: if my world is a plane, and I am a square on it, I cannot understand that my reality is flat, for I would not understand that there is anything outside of height and width; I can only see a line. Faith claims there is something beyond all we know. For me as a square, it would be a leap of faith to believe that there is such thing as "depth", and that there is actual space outside of the line I can see and measure with points. If a human stuck their finger into my world, I would see it start with a point, and the point would turn into a small line, then gradually become a larger line until the finger is fully inserted and stops. Then I would see a constant line of a certain height. I might say as a square that the point grew, but nothing actually grew at all. A fully grown finger came into my plane. As a human I understand my views as a square were limited. I can measure the height, width, and depth. But it will be another leap of faith to say there is something beyond it. As a square, I would be ridiculed for explaining the finger phenomena by saying there is something outside of what we know, and that we cannot measure it with something we know. Likewise, as a human, I explain the transformation of my life from morbidly despondent to enthusiastically vivacious as a result of Christ working in me. Another person might say, "Ridiculous! I cannot measure 'God's finger' in your life, Blank." Very true, you cannot. Neither can I. I just believe it and have had my belief verified to me again and again. Take my testimony as false if you wish, but if you trust me, I hope you trust God yourself and pleasantly find Him verified to you again and again as you do so.

I agree. If a Christian literally believes someone is murdering another person, when was the answer ever to murder the people who are doing the murdering? That sounds like trying to overcome evil with evil. Whereas the Bible specifically teaches, This is why the "christians" who killed people that ran an abortion clinic boggle my mind. According to this passage, they should be feeding and clothing the people in the abortion clinic, showing love to the people in order to show the "better" way that they supposedly are enlightened to, leaving vengeance to God. If they really believe in a just, perfect, and almighty God, then let that awesome God give the due punishment for killing innocents, probably a far better punishment than simply returning the deed and killing the people.

If someone depicted Jesus as a caricature displaying some type of hypocrisy which Christians commit, I would take the message to heart: the author of the comic has perceived Christ's character in such a way. At that point, I would do my best not to depict Jesus that way to others through my own actions, and I would try even harder to show Christ's true character, that of love. If someone said Christ was a murderer because they heard someone murder another in the name of Christ, should I go murder the person who said Christ was a murderer? Never! Such a thing would only serve to strengthen the claim that Christ is a murderer, which He Himself never was, but which a person might perceive Him as through the actions of another claiming to be in His name. Christians say that their beliefs ought to be reflected by their lives, and that they show God's love by their love of others. So if they suck at loving others, of course people will think Jesus must suck too. It is thus a true Christian's responsibility to show the true character of Christ through true actions of love. This is the best way to combat misrepresentations of Jesus Christ. If one man claims he commits evils in Jesus' name (and remember, evil is never something Christ endorsed), and another man claims his great acts of love are in Jesus' name (Jesus being the very model of great acts of love), which man will people believe better represents Christ? The man who disobeyed Christ and wrought destruction, or the man who obeyed Christ and bore good fruit to mankind? I want with all my heart to be the latter man, and I repent and beg forgiveness when I am found to resemble the former man in any way.

Science includes personal experience all the time Oddblob. It's scientific, measurable, and quantifiable when you interview people about their experiences. Have you ever taken a course of psychology or read a psychological journal? For example, take Walsingham's post on the other page about the correlation of depression and sleep deprivation. Do you realize that when someone is considered clinically depressed, it is because they were interviewed and their personal experience fit the criteria for being so? We consider personal experience as scientific all the time. As Hurlshot mentioned earlier, we also legally consider personal experience as key to determining the truth. When I say "the truth", I mean people can die on account of two or three witnesses. This is why Christians use words like "witness" and "testimony". This is why the book of 1 John is so convicting for Christians who do not have a hardened heart; it reminds them that if they say they abide in Christ, they must live a life accordingly transformed by Him; their life ought to testify of their faith. As James says, what kind of faith has no fruit? A dead kind. I agree with you, Oggy, that one cannot "prove" God exists by measuring His height or His depth, but with my actions I can prove that my faith in Him has genuine and tangible results. On the other hand, one must ask, do I have true faith, or am I putting on a show? Once again, that is something I cannot prove. But as a court trusts a witness, or as you trust an acquaintance with your crap when you go to the lou at a coffee shop, you must be able to trust that when a person says their faith guides them to good deeds and love, they have a genuine faith.

I concur with anecdotal evidence for myself a few years back.

Now replace "imperialism" with "genocide" in your post. Does your principle hold up?

I did a word search in the Bible on riches and possessions and these stuck out to me: Matthew 19:16-26 Luke 12:13-21 1 John 3:16-18 Proverbs 30:7-9 Jeremiah 9:22-24 Luke 8:14 Luke 16:10-13 Matthew 17:24-26 Isaiah 55:1-3

to be left without ideology is to be truly capable of free thought. think about it, what is ideology? the belief in a collection of related ideas originated by someone else. taks One could say that esteeming free thought as you are doing is itself an exercise of ideology.

I'm pretty sure the point Jesus is making is that we should remember that instead of focusing on accumulating earthly things, give to God what it is due to God, the spiritual, heart matters that are far more important.

it is impossible to blindly follow any ideology without hypocrisy. taks I agree with your logic, but not with the implied premise that to believe in Christianity, one must blindly follow it. I would propose that those who truly open their eyes and see are the ones who believe and follow.