Mysh

Thanks looking forward to your constructive feedback. To start with I need someone who wants to work together with me and look on the scripts.

OK let me try this. I don't know if you can see these addresses. http://imgur.com/zYzuFxm http://imgur.com/2mwZ6f8 http://imgur.com/g3bqEjs http://imgur.com/LS3n5p7 http://imgur.com/Lm5kGNv http://imgur.com/HoUexDH Formulas need verification. If you have MATLAB I can provide scripts. It's a very fast code. DPS weighted was done as: Weighted_DPS(Weapon_Loop,Attribute_loop,Foe_Loop)=Foe_Size(Foe_Loop)*Total_Damage/Attack_Time/Total_Foe_Size; Foe_Size=Foe_Base_DR.*Foe_Deflection;

By the way, I have done the analysis for an one-handed Paladin build with +12 accuracy, +0.45dmg and flame weapon yesterday night. 1. It appears talent priority for DPS are: Vulnerable attack, savage attack, weapon focus. There is no need for one-handed style skill. Better grab envenomed strike. 2. The best weapon you should go for is the sabre, followed by Stiletto. BTW are these stats OK for Sabre? Min Damage 13 Max Damage 19 Attack Frames 18 Recovery Frames 30 This weapon is way... above others. 3. You should prioritize to stack rending ability (+3DR), then x0.2 speed, followed closely by +0.5 crit mod. I do not think there is a sabre with rending ability for DR, so better go for weapon speed. 4. The optimum stat distribution for weighted DPS (see below) (assuming you can have 10 might and 10 dexterity and you don't know how to distribute points between them) is: - 7 might and 13 dexterity - 4 might and 16 dexterity with sworn enemy on 5. If you use a Foe database and you plot DR vs Deflection, you see some randomness but there is something like a trend. If you now plot DR*Deflection, it's magic all enemies distribute perfectly exponentially. This means Obsidian used the size DR x Deflection to weight enemies. Therefore, I used the product of DR x Delection to weight DPS, by Foe size. Minions count less, Adra dragon more in order to optimize my DPS. I have tons of graphs and charts, but now I am at the airport. Does anyone know any easy website to upload images fast? I used to use photobucket when I was younger... I guess things have changed now. Don't know, when will come back, but when I do, I will strike hard. )

Anyone else can make some input? It's hard to nail down the numbers for attack_frames and recovery_frames due to the animation transition delays. At least some different attack animations (many weapons have two, one of which is randomly chosen each swing) also have different timings. I would use total attack time instead (attack_frame + recovery_frames + attack_delay + recovery_delay). If you do that, then: 1 + ((Dexterity - 10) * 0.0225) would be closer to what we observe in the game. Not sure if the attack speed mod should just be added to the dexterity mod or not, but I'd be a little surprised if it didn't seem to work this way in practice: 1 + ((Dexterity - 10) * 0.0225) + (0.75 * attackSpeedIncrease) I don't know if there's a reload_delay. Note: 2.25 / 3 = .75 I've grown bored with trying to nail down the dps formula exactly. The mechanics are too opaque and my free time is too valuable to me. - Don't worry about (1 + Dexterity*0.03). In my code 0 dexterity =10. So, I got it covered. Sorry didn't explain this. - Do I get right that you suggest: (attack_frame + recovery_frames + attack_delay + recovery_delay) / (1 + ((Dexterity - 10) * 0.0225)) Where is 2.25/3 coming from? Isn't Dexterity 3% increase per attribute? By the way can you please how many frames per second, I should assume? Would it be 30?

1. It's my understanding, based on other's tests, that nothing effects the attack/reload delay. Hence the + 10 should be by itself. I'd also just point out some assumptions in your equation that I am doubtful of, but really don't know myself: 2. That attack speed and dexterity are multiplicative instead of additive. Seen some people claiming attack speed bonuses are additive with each other. Whether dexterity is considered just another attack speed bonus in this context, or it's own thing, I'm not certain. 3. Same with reload speed. 1. Would you suggest? Attack_Time = ( 10+ ( Attack_Frames(Weapon_Loop) + Recovery_Frames(Weapon_Loop) * ( 1 - Attack_Speed_Mod ) + Reload_Frames(Weapon_Loop) * (1 - Reload_Speed_Mod) ) / (1 + Dexterity*0.03 ) )/30; 2. I have assumed that bonuses that affect attack speed are additive. Thanks for spending time to help me with this. I appreciate your help.

Anyone else can make some input?

I have written a MATLAB code, which does auto-comparisson of many things and tries to find optimum, weapon, talents, attribute distribution, weapon mods etc. Before communicating my results, could you please confirm the following formula? Attack_Time = ( ( Attack_Frames(Weapon_Loop) + Recovery_Frames(Weapon_Loop) * ( 1 - Attack_Speed_Mod ) + Reload_Frames(Weapon_Loop) * (1 - Reload_Speed_Mod) + 10 ) / (1 + Dexterity*0.03 ) )/30;

Interesting, let us know the result please.

Lay on Hands should have been fast. Agreed. However, the barbarian skill is only self-cast, so surely it heals more, but lacks the tactical versatility of lay on hands. Regarding spell power, lay on hands is on par with the level 4 Cleric spell "restore major endurance". They both heal 33 endurance. Lay on hands though does it over time. I am also expecting a buff on greater lay on hands, something like "x2 per encounter, +10 healing power" would be appropriate comparing to "+10 healing power" as it is.

Well it scales badly in late game. This is true. If you had to choose between Flames of Devotion and Lay on Hands, which one would you consider more valuable and with what skill combination? I have to admit that if you are building a tank, flame of devotion is not very good, but lay on hands is just a worse choice, its frustrating you can only pick between this two abilities at start. Even on level 12, a paladin with 14 int and 10 might will be healing 40 endurance. This is like 20%-40% of your character HP on level 12 and gives you a deflection bonus as well. Do you think this is so bad?

Well it scales not so well in late game. This is true. If you had to choose between Flames of Devotion and Lay on Hands, which one would you consider more valuable and with what skill combination?

33.3 is good, when someone is dieing and is awesome together with a deflection bonus. What sucks is the greater lay on hands, which adds only +10.

Shielding Flames affects all nearby allies within 5.0m (does not work with an aura they have to be already in range to benefit), but not the paladin, provides +10 deflection for 10sec does some minor damage (+50% burn) and can be used twice. It is a considerable buff for your front Line, excluding the Paladin. Shielding Touch can be used on any team member including the Paladin within 3.0m, provides +8 deflection for 10sec and provides a beefy heal of 33.3 endurance. Can be used only once. This is your emergency button. I prefer the second, because it provides more aimed benefits. It is a life saver for the character in need.

too many people seem to miss that shieldbearers get a great upgrade to flames called "shielding flames". whenever you use your flames attack, everyone in your party gets +10 deflection. that's better than the lay on hands buff, hands down. plus... you get to do it twice per combat. though, this is specifically for a tanky pally build, not a generalist. Ichthyc, Thanks for your thoughtful input. Would you consider an AoE bonus, which is effective only in a short range around you more useful? Due to the mechanics of the spell, allies do not gain deflection if they get in range after the spell has been casted. This means you can only cast the spell, if both allies and foes are close enough; this may not always be the case. You need a foe to cast the spell, and an ally close enough to benefit from it. Morevover, FoD+shielding flames is not a self-buff and affects only your allies, so cannot be considered a tanky ability; On the contrast a heal with a deflection bonus to an ally who is dieing is a life saver. It is reliable and you can always guarantee it will work as intended. Overall, with my naive thinking, an aimed heal and deflection bonus to an ally in need is far more useful and reliable than a short range AoE that is uncertain whether it will offer any benefit. Lasci, thanks for spending time to read my post and your thoughtful input. Please read my answer to Ichthyc regarding shielding flames. Your are absolutely right about hold the line. I will revise my build order and take hold the line earlier. Would you value it over weapon and shield style? What type of armor would you suggest to fight with? In my opinion a hearth Orlan may be more DPS focused, but a Pale elf with elemental protections feels truer to your role as a tank.

The build I posted does decent damage. You cannot compare it to a rogue though.

FYI I posted this build at another section of the forum. I post here again, since the other section was irrelevant, Thanks.

Here comes my latest and most versatile Paladin build. Scrap my previous suggestions; they are rubbish It's not only viable in harder difficulties, but also does exceptionally well in RP acting as a soft-tongued diplomat. Role: Tank, Support, Combat Initiator Advantages: High survivability, able to guard party members, weak but sustainable DPS, strong in role playing aspects, all-around. Disadvantages: Micro intensive, shines over endgame, makes all the dirty work to let others shine Paladin order: Shiedbearers of St. Elcga (order choice may appear questionable, but is priceless in actuality. Read below) Race: Pale Elf (elemental resistance DRs, yes, please!), Hearth Orlan (slightly more DPS focused works well too), Moon Godlike (more heals, but no helms). Attributes: Might: 10 (matching might and dexterity yields the best DPS with this build. I won't elaborate here, since it's too detailed. Let me know, if you need further explanation on this.) Dex: 10 (we will absolutely need this to sustain some DPS, in the end attack speed will be horrendous. Read below.) Con: 10 (the build is tanky even with 10CON, but wouldn't suggest to go below for better synergy with high athletics skill) Per: 17 (Deflection is needed for tanks, awesome in RP) Int: 14 (Only for RP, offers minor buffs in support abilities. Truth is you can easily dump this to 10 and go 12 might, 12 dexterity, if you don't care for role-playing your character. We said we will be diplomats, so 14 INT feels good) Res: 17 (More deflection, yes please! Complements the RP side of our character nicely) Skills: Athletics 9 (so important for a tank), Lore 10 (for RP reasons), Survival 4 (RP and potions). Weapon set of Choice: Noble (Mace) and shield Abilities: Level 1: Lay on Hands (A minor heal, far more useful than FoD in combination with shielding touch, read below) Level 3: Zealous Endurance (more DR, yes please, we will need as much as we can) Level 5: Sworn Enermy (this ability offers an absolutely important accuracy bonuses, and a x1.2 damage bonus. Together with your modal, it will allow you to bring a small but sustainable DPS in fights, where you have to contribute. Given your paladin cannot be brought down in fights, small but sustainable DPS is more than it sounds.) Level 7: Reviving Exhortation (A well-placed revive can turn battles around) Level 9 Reinforcing Exhortation (It allows you to shield any ally in a radius of 10m, it's a priceless support ability. Being able to shield your damage dealer from afar means a lot in PoE). Level 11 Hastening exhortion opens hardcore support abilities (this can turn your dual wielding DPS into a killing machine, and by doing things like this is how you win in Path of the Damned), Righteous Soul (makes our Paladin uber tanky). Choice is up to you. Talents: Level 2: Weapon and Shield Style (Absolutely vital. More deflection and more reflex, yes please! We are the shieldbearers after all.) Level 4: Cautious Attack +10 deflection , -20% attack speed. (more deflection, yes please. Essentially, It stacks with zealous endurance and vulnerable attack. Should be triggered off, if character is not in the centre of focus to gain action speed). Level 6: Shielding Touch (Modifies lay on hands and yields a +8 deflection bonus for 10sec. Sounds, nah... but it's absolutely fantastic. If you heal someone he absolutely needs this deflection bonus. Moreover it buys your ally time to get out from a difficult situation. Imagine this in combination with Reinforcing Exhortation, it basically turns any character into a tank. The best part? In contrast to other Paladin skills, it can also be used as a self-buff.) Level 8: Weapon Focus Noble (Paladin's accuracy is not that great, but this together with sworn enemy, will allow to bring in some damage when needed. Why the heck noble? Well, we will go with mace for the 5 DR bypass bonus). Level 10: Vulnerable Attack, -20% attack speed, +5DR bypass (more stacking DR bypass? Yes, please. As mentioned, it stacks as a modal ability with zealous endurance and cautious attack. Should be almost always on. If vulnerable attack is on together with cautious attack and the paladin is in full-plate things get very show. Hence, 10 dexterity makes things viable.) Level 12: Hold the Line (less flanking is always good), Deep Faith (more deflection and saving throws, nice), Superior Deflection (+5 deflection sounds good). Any choice would do. Comments: 1: You can have one paladin, one offensive and one defensive modal on at the same time. 2: Depending on talent choice, you can get your deflection sustainable up to 98-103 and spiked up to 106-111 with self-buffs and without bonus items. 3: The suggested skillpoint distribution yields 0 unused points in the end. 4: I value +3 perception, +10DR fire, +10DR freeze, over the heals of a Moon Godlike, but all suggested racial choices are viable. Things you should forget: Anything related to flames of devotion (Tried hard to make this work, in the end you spend way too many talent points and gain almost nothing in return. Might work for high might builds, but not for this, but then again if you want to play a DPS build, paladin is not your best choice.) Greater lay on hands (+10 heal once per encounter, really?). If you want heals, get a cleric and druid in your party. Feel free to dip in and comment. Thanks for reading.

Have faith guys. If they need anything it will probably a very minor boost. This is far from Godlike being pointless.

Not awarding Xp for combat is BAD FOR ROLE-PLAYING. If you want XP per fights consider diablo. Or nearly every other RPG. I could make that argument about nearly everything. What if PoE didn't let you talk to npcs? You want to talk to npcs? Might I suggest diablo. Please no shouting and no caps in a civil discussion. Well, I say that awarding XP for combat is not good for RP. PoE let's you talk to NPCs, so that's a completely pointless argument. What if trains had no wheels? Thank you your suggestion, I will consider it when I want to play RPG without talking to NPCs. Like what? I've never played in an RPG where searching for every fight was needed or even efficient. Certainly this was not the case in the IE games (which all had combat xp), and that's what PoE is supposed to be based on. OK there is a first time for everything. PoE has no XP per fights. You'd better get used to it, because this is how it is. It is a good thing as well. Give it a try at least, if you like IE. IE is much more beyond the XP per fights, or per quest narrow minded view. So certainly, disagree with such a simplistic thinking. So? This isn't a case of choosing between quest and combat xp. Oh really? Good to know. Thanks

I love that fights don't earn you XP. This would encourage pure RP, talking and negotiating. If you want XP per fights consider diablo. This is a cRPG dude. In some RPGs we had to search for every possible fight, search inn's cellar if there are rats to exterminate, search in the swamp if there are mosquitos and bull frogs, search under every tomb if there is a skeleton left etc. Why should a true hero behave like this? The quest driven XP is much more meaningful to me.

A lot of you tube videos and lots of wikia reading. Doing builds was my hobby back in the day. I also earned some small reputation for it. So, old habits never die... EDIT: OK updated adding clues on attributes. I am planning to play the Guardian of Light build with all around stats (fits well on the build and for RP reasons). The build seems diverse can heal, revive, defend and smite good.

A lot of you tube videos and a lot of wikia reading. Doing builds was my hobby back in the day. I also earned some small reputation for it. So, old habits never die...

Same here! Are you suggesting, it won't be needed? Sorry didn't get your point about Prima guide.

Hi guys, The old RPGs I used to remember had nice books explaining all the feats and skills and class breakdown with tables etc. Does PoE have something like this? If yes, could you please let me know, which version has it? Thanks!

Yaaay! I didn't even know there was a boxed version.