Darth_Schmarth

Well, we can argue probability all day, but what it comes down to is that it just doesn't work out for me on an entertainment level. I don't go "Wow" when she reveals her power; I go "Oh please". That, as you can gather, is not a plug for Obsidian. Kreia was not physically invisible...unless you did activate the Stealth feat. Here very good reasons to support some of the many things I (and many others) have already said.. 1: The Jedi Council had believed Kreia to be dead. (It is suspected that she is Arren Kae; which is very possible.) 2: Her appearance has changed much since she was last a Jedi Master. (One of Atton's first few lines upon the Ebon Hawk were purposfully added to give us this clue.) 3: The worlds on which your quests lie in K2 are those either touched by war or drowned in life, which prevents you from detecting other Force-sensative. ("It makes detecting other Force users difficult." -- Zez-Kai Ell, "If there are any here I cannot sense them." -- Vrook, "Old woman?" -- Atris) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not really saying that you can't fill in the holes in the plot with a little imagination or even perfectly legitimate evidence (I haven't played this game in about four months or so for starters), but again all I'm saying is I don't like it, it's not for me. It's a shame because I like the game and I like the story. There are, however, certain aspects of this game where I feel that Obsidian crossed the line for what makes sense or what comes across as balanced in the story. Entirely true and never disputed by me.

I don't entirely agree, but let's not dwell on it. I accept your argument. If you have not seen that I suggest you read my posts again. Since I suspect you won't I will enlighten you: I consider it bad writing because it fails to produce a sense of balance within the micro (?) cosmos it represents. For me the general experience of the game suffers because Kreia is portrayed as something too powerful. Let's take the current blockbuster movie "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory", for instance. Imagine Willy Wonka snapping his finger and a giant chocolate man ten times the size of the city comes in and eats the entire factory in one bite to end the movie. While that may not be totally alien to the story's setting, it disrupts the credibility of the artwork and you will likely (likely) disapprove. Cheers.

I think we both know I didn't exactly have Mithril golems on my mind.

I remember quite well that Palpatine fried Windu's tail pretty toasty before throwing him out of the widow of his office into the depths of Coruscant. And he also threw Yoda a good punch one time as well. I realize that Palpatine is a Sith Lord and not a Dark Jedi, but if these two instances are not "Force Lightning or choke a Jedi Master", then I don't know is. And like is said before, I don't think that Kreia was invisible. I do believe, however, that she was able to be seen, but keep her identity a secret. Also, she didn't kill the Jedi Masters. What she did was drain them - or cut them off from - the Force. She did this to prove that her teachings were correct, that their dogmatic teachings were flawed, and that life can exist without the Force. This is why the exile is so precious to her, because he is proof. The three masters were simply either too afraid, or too weak, to be able to live without the Force. So they died as a side-effect. She may have cause them to be killed, but she did not kill them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good story, poor plot. Herein lies the game's big problem, I'm afraid. This whole argument, however, revolves around the very plausibility of Kreia's being able to stay invisible, literally or not, to the Jedi Masters. I would not compare Palpatine's frying a puzzled, deceived and seriously wounded Mace with Kreia's kick-ass showing in the Enclave. But I guess we will never be in agreement, so maybe we should just drop it?

You're being either silly, ignorant, stupid or all three.

Allow me to shed some light on the matter for you: The Stealth feat is just that: a feat. As such it is subject to possible detection. I, and several other players of this game with me, do not necessarily find her invisibility to kick-ass Jedi Masters implausible because of the setting in which the story is told, but rather because of the general notion of story credibility it conveys. Verily, do lead by example.

By that logic you'd have to physically activate that feat for those particular scenes. It is completely beyond me how people can stick to Obsidian so tenaciously on this issue, but I guess some people buy things easier.

I meant Fantasy as in sort of Fantasy. If that wasn't totally obvious I apologise and go stand in a corner drooping my ears.

So we can put a Super Plasma Death Robot in a Fantasy setting and say "Hey, it works 'cause it's all made up anyway"?

This time I'll just settle with disagreeing... <_<

I always find myself grenading the Rakghouls. I always found it so annoying that they could poison you so easily. I mean, wouldn't that mean Revan gets the disease? Sure you find a cure after a while, but some fate if the Dark Lord was redeemed only to end up as a drooling monster on some backwater world...

So the Force is now Magic? According to Obsidian it's ****ing obvious that you can do that using the Force. According to most people who play the game looking for a story within the boundaries of plausible expectation, it is unfortunate that Obsidian felt this way. Am I clear?

Whether they explained it or not is beside the point, goddammit! So, again:

Those things you mention are established actions within the boundaries of what the Force is reckoned to be. And, most importantly, Dark Jedi can't just go up and Force Lightning or choke a Jedi Master anyway. Kreia can go invisible and kill them with a wave of her hand. How people can defend that as good, sensible writing is beyond me and only comes across as desperate fanboism. I'll never join you!

Controversial as in stupid.

It makes sense that Atris couldn't sense Kreia, but the fact that Vroom or Kaviar can't even see her doesn't. It's stupid, bad, and more stupid. And bad.

Force storm is cool but overpowered. You literally have to resist the haunting urge to fry everyone with it just because you can.

To me comparing Kreia's "invisibility" to Palpatine's clouding his alignment in the dark side of the Force is a bit like comparing a bicycle to a space shuttle. "They're both vehicles". While you can defend what Kreia does, simply because she does it, it doesn't mean it's good writing. You can argue what is plausible and what is not in both K1, K2, the movies and other fanfic, but it's not really the issue. It's about what feels balanced and trustworthy in both a story and a game. I definitely think Kreia's antics is further over the top than the Star Forge, just like I believe that Nihilus' destroying planets on a whim is plain silly too. There's extraordinary and there's extraordinary...

DC is David Coulthard and nothing else.

Wizard for me. Probably mostly because I gave very atheist and pacifist answers...

It's one thing to travel to a certain planet in order to hide and another to stand opposite someone who doesn't realise you're there.

Being "unsensable" is very Star Warsy DS stuff, what with Palpatine and all. But making yourself completely invisible even to other Jedi suddenly veers into the bad-writing department.

And the thirst for more Revan was thoroughly quenched. "

I have to agree. Many goalies come in to produce a good run-in and a monster post-season, only to drop considerably when the regular season restarts. Kiprusoff will only be a true star once he proves he can perform consistently over several seasons.

It'll be made eventually, but not in the forseeable future.