Shadowstrider

So let me get this straight, I'm being defensive when I say people are having a bad time because they're not taking full advantage of the things the game was made for. A warrior going through the whole game without making magic items is like a wizard going through and never buying any new spells... yet I'm the one being stubborn. In D&D, if a wizard or a warrior didn't have magic gear at level 20, guess what happens? Or if a wizard doesn't have enough spells? Sorry Gromnir, but you're just taking the "he's a developer route" out, you're the one being stubborn. You're reallying grasping for straws now. Where the hell did I say there was "no bad combat builds?" Picking up blade, light armor, and a bunch of spell schools but never using any spells in combat, or buy new spells, or crafting new magic items would gimp you pretty bad. It still wouldn't be unplayable, but it would be a pain in the ass.

It does although I sure didnt see any at level 10. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's very possible that the loot tables changed in the final builds. Check a strategy guide.

Well that's what I was replying to. The loot might look better but your more lethal with a rusty dagger at level 1 than you are with Umbra at level 20. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't use Umbra. At level 20, I'm decked out with magic gear thanks to sigil stones Umbra is not an impressive weapon, at all, it simply soul traps. Grab a sword, any sword you have, and enchant it with a sigil stone for damage. The game is much easier when you deal standard damage +6 cold (about what is available at level 5). You guys are relying far too much on being GIVEN items. The creation system is in place for you to create magic items on your own.

My reply had nothing to do with that. It was in response to your "when you level up loot technically isn't better" spiel.

This is how the loot table works without luck. Armor PC Level Fur / Iron 1 Leather / Steel 3 Chain / Dwarven 6 Mithril / Orcish 10 Elven / Ebony 15 Glass / Daedric 20 Everytime a creature is spawned, it checks your level, and checks your luck. Once in awhile you'll get special drops. The higher your luck, the more likely you are to recieve a special drop.

He's level 2 not level 10. At level 2 I had a sword that can kill in one hit because I got lucky with a gate stone. Umbra couldnt do that at the time you get it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, I'm not following. You've lost me. What are we talking about?

I'm not trying to defend Oblivion nearly as much as you seem to think. You're just jumping to the "defending the game he worked on" conclusion. I don't think having "the wrong combat skills" is possible. At least in all my play throughs it hasn't been. Once again, you're making leaps that aren't in my post. I said LESS metagaming than in other RPGs. It isn't unbelievable that a group of rogues would take up an old group of rogues hide out. Whether or not you enjoy it, has no bearing. The option is there, you can use it or not. I don't see how it effects you if you decide not too. My example proves that at loot provided at your level (Umbra's armor scales), you can take on multiple foes. At level 15, if you're decked out in unenchanted, appropriate level armor (sword excluded), you can survive. So long as you don't stand around like a yutz.

It does. No, it doesn't discourage leveling. It isn't balanced for people who use speechcraft, and other non-combat skills, but it doesn't discourage leveling. If you play a battle class, that is to say something with skills made only for battle, the game is not difficult. My warrior can cast the lowest level protection spell (given right after making your class) while decked out in Umbra's armor and go toe to toe with 3 Clanfears, at level 15. Only spells I use are a 25 point healing spell and said protection spell. Granted, my sword drains magicka with every hit (thanks sigil stone ). Most people aren't having this problem. Additionally, it isn't completely true. So long as you don't make a bunch of non-combat skills your majors you should be fine. Who'da thunk that a non-combat oriented character would suck at combat? So? Giving players the option to continue playing after they've done everything is a bad thing, now? Yes, the option to go back and clear out Vilverin a dozen times is there, but you're not forced to. Where is the problem? Yes, Oblivion's leveling system isn't perfect. Not because of the practice makes perfect approach, though. It is fuxxed for other reasons, like some skills levelling too quickly, while others level too slowly. Non-combat skills can make the game rough (Rough, not unplayable). I've already said this a few dozen times. If it were my call, there would be no levels. At all.

Some unique quest stuff is level based. But it's not like you need to have it. The better equipment thing is misleading since as you level it's technically not better anyway. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It certainly is better. At level 10 you can't get enormous stat increases with magic items, at level 20+ you can. I've had characters so fast the enemies couldn't keep up with me while I was sneaking, or characters so strong I can take half health in a single blow.

It works fine. You just can't drag a man by his chest (which is logical). Use limbs, head, arms, legs, hell even groin. Grabbing a man by his nipples is not the best way to go...

I called you a whiner. P.S. One word answers your "if I shouldn't get elven swords until 15, why am I getting them at 11" query. Luck.

I have to say, I think they did a really good job on the Thieves' Guild quests. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oddly, Bruce Nesmith designed the Thieves' Guild, while Emil tackled Dark Brotherhood.

I must've been mistaken. I could've sworn I encountered some mini-gun wielding raiders when I was higher level. Perhaps if you're higher level it scales up to you, but enemies don't scale down to you.

I'm too lazy to go back and check, so I'll take your word for it. I deleted my previous post. I was not referring to you, 10k fists.

Yes. Go get in a random encounter in Fallout.

Except that Fallout pretty much scaled.

I take it you play with the sound off.

I agree with this to a point. I do not think the main storyline felt inappropriate, a bit out of place, but not inappropriate. Other than that you are correct, the game could have used a more focused approach. However, that is not what the Elder Scrolls is about. The entire series has been like this, so I'm not sure why you would have expected otherwise.

There are a lot of goofy side quests in most games. Oblivion simply has more sidequests available so people notice. I didn't compare that, in fact I didn't raise any quests in Oblivion. The mage's guild is a side quest. The dark brotherhood is a sidequest. I found both of these much more compelling than killing a red dragon. I mean, if someone compare shadowbanish wine hunting to Firkraag, they're clearly an idiot. That wasn't the argument I was making. At all. People were saying side quests that distract from a game's main plot ruin the game. Thats what a side quest is MADE TO DO, essentially. It is completely inexplicable that this would bother them in Oblivion and not, say, Fallout.

The primary reason that these quests make life easier is that you can only do them at one point in the story, and help you gain experience, like the underdark quests. After you leave underdark they become unavailable. Doing them makes it easier to complete the underdark maze. This isn't the case in Oblivion, [almost] any quest, any time.

Well in a normal CRPG sidequests help you complete the main plot rather than hinder you :D It is silly though when somethings about to happen and you tell them you will be back later (and show up in a couple of weeks) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Uh... thats what sidequests are. Quests on the side. If a side quest is involved in the main quest, it isn't a side quest, really. Look at Baldur's Gate 2, a game most people here know and love, dozens of side quests that have nothing to do with the main quest. Oddly, people didn't complain about that. I mean, what does Firkraag have to do with the main quest? To me, this is just a case of people biased against the game.

People are claiming that the system is meta-gamey, when it is much less so than a traditional RPG. In traditional RPGs people go around and do every quest, even if their character would not. In Oblivion, the compulsion to do this is signifigantly reduced, because helping grannie only gives you a few gold and not 300 XP. No I'm not. If you have a valid criticism of the system, I'll agree with it. Shadowpaladin pointed out that levels don't mesh with the "practice makes perfect" level scheme, I agreed. People claim that the system is broken because leveling up actually makes the game more challenging, also true (but not overly so, clearly, Battlewookie is just terrible). It wouldn't be difficult, at all. I simple >/=/< check would be all that is necessary. That isn't what Oblivion wanted to go for. You can do anything at any level, including the quests that require you to be higher level to start (most of 'em anyway).

It isn't splitting hairs. The ES leveling system is closer to reality than a traditional RPG, but isn't realistic. No, traditional systems aren't supposed to mirror reality, what traditional leveling systems try to accomplish is a sort of epiphany moment. Suddenly your character's experience has come to fruition. "Level up" is supposed to represent a moment in time whare your character realizes something that makes them better. Movies and books do this too, except in movies it isn't inexplicable, it is triggered by something specific. In RPGs, it is triggered by delivering grannie her groceries.

Did you hear plate make a sound on the floor in front of the grate? I am not SURE I know where you are, but I believe I know. I just completed Miscarcand on PC and 360 thursday, and did not encounter this.

Post a screenshot of where you are.