Darth Blivion

I don't take this kind of thing seriously the point of the game is that you can make Revan & the Exile whatever gender you want them to be. They're not going to make a book/graphic novel/ comic featuring the Exile, so as far as I'm concerned the character remains undefined, unless a published story on the character says otherwise.

Revan isn't his own fanboy while Kreia is his first and primary teacher. A lot of people in Kotor seem to know enough about Revan to know his power, and the "comparison" was made some 4 years after kotor 1. So, within the story there is no definitive evidence that Kreia didn't know how powerful Revan was: she goes as far as describing him as the heart of the force after all (not literal), which gives you a good idea of how highly she rated him.

I've been here a while, as you should know. But that's just your opinion, the only thing that's not, is that Kreia said what she said. It's open to interpretation but the statement is there as it is and until changed or expounded remains what it is. Let's not forget that Kreia knew Revan better than anyone - who better to make a comparison of her students than herself?

I refute that with Lord Kun... after all the guy beat up Luke without breaking a sweat as a spirit (well... disembodied and almost killed him anyway). And nearly killed Corran Horn. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why does this even become an argument? Jaden was the hero: it's his job to win against all odds.

Facts? I don't think "facts" is the appropriate word to use when discussing fiction.

It's all fiction. If OE - the crafters of Kotor 2 - feel that the Exile is greater than all Kreia's students - including Revan - then that's what we have to live with. No point in mentioning power levels and what Revan's she knew. Revan is a one dimentional character, we are not talking complex here, so there's really no - as yet - underlying aspect of his make-up that has gone unnoticed in the last two Kotor's: so what are we talking about? It's all just opinion on your part, except the said statement in the fictional setting. As to the rankings, the force is supposed to be immeasurable. I have always found the concept of power levels in star wars as cheezy, because I would never have become a fan, if GL handled the OT like Dragon Ball Z. How is it that people who rely on an infinite entity can claim to have their own power? That's why I found the "wound" concept so interesting. I've always felt that the Skwalker's are not neccesarily powerful but more aware of this enity (the force) or simply have a greater aptitude for the force. Might it be that Ragnos possesed a similar aptitude and was thus considered powerful on the basis of having a strong connection to the force? Again, going back to the concept of a "wound" or empty spot in the force, seeing as this force controls everything it would mean that whoever has lost their connection to this force, but can still manipulate it, is trully powerful. Of course, this again is only another opinion, much like yours.

Who hasn't had game ending bugs in kotor? I run into one the first time I fought Malak - how's that for frustrating.

Malak was easy I beat him the first time I fought him, with a sentinel. Just force storm, or force drain the Jedi captives. In fact I run into a game stopping glitch the first time I fought Malak. I had destroyed all the Jedi in their tanks after he had drained only two Jedi. Malak ended up just standing there and I couldn't engage him. Malak is overrated here, I found him just about as hard as Sion, in fact they have the same M.O. (regenerating) except that Malak's is cheezy. Who breaks up a fight to go drain Jedi?! To me Malak was a push over and his difficulty is way overrated, a lot of you must have had unbalanced characters. Beating Malak just involve draining or destroying the Jedi in their tanks. The mad Sith Master on Korriban, the terrenkanet (spelling*) and the droids on Goto's yatch (at least the first play through) are the most challenging fights in Kotor.

It was a dark side cave hence it stifles the light side of the force. Those Jedi who are not strong enough either turn (Exar Kun) or die (the dead Jedi you find in the Hsiss room). It's not promoting evil, that's just the devs paying attention to SW lore. The dark side is forceful so it makes sence that you can't regenerate force points as a LS character. Also I don't think bringing back a level 20 cap would fix things to be more challenging. I like the system as it is (from a leveling up percpective) whereby you can gain skills while being a weapon master or develop better lightsaber proficiency after starting out with a sentinel or consular. Since when did someone in SW become deficient in technical skills because they chose to be weaponmasters? It's the flexibility of the system that allows for more roleplaying options. Making it rigid, again, with a level 20 cap is taking the series a step back. Personally I believe a change from turn based to fully real time will allow for greater challenges in combat. They could do it with the D20 system, but in my little experience with this system, difficulty in a turn based setup often translates to: senseless frustration. I'd hope that the difficulties are related to the NPC feats rather than by the numerics associated with saves and other defensive attributes. Realtime for me, is the answer.

Taris only because it had more content. But to be fair you'd rather compare Taris to Nar Shadda as they are more similar. Peragus was the only locale with that cool survival horror mysery to it. Storywise - Peragus was better (It's not even a planet by the way). Taris had alot of content but I felt it dragged on a little too long. Peragus is only a hussle the 3rd playthrough - I felt that it was a very to-the-point level (no side quests). Everything that you did made sense from a story and a convinience point of view.

I'd be willing to agree, but K3 is an entirely different premise from K1. K1 was our introduction into the Kotor universe and as such it required that the gamer be lead along slowly (taking baby steps first- as it were) hence the non force adept starting classes. With K2 more depth was given to the customization of the force adept classes. Likewise in K3 I expect a progression of the formula not a regression. With more emphasis being put on different saber and force forms etc etc. Also Holocrons should become usable. This is what I expect would happen, having to start off with a non-jedi class would be boring given how far we've come. I'd lean towards their being more depth rather than more superficial options.

I assume he is just a Jedi from Malchor (part of the Exie's fleet) who instead of dying ended up as a "wound in the force". His hunger developed as a result of his delving into the dark side and because his process of becoming a wound (unlike the Exile) was out of his control - hence the reason why he can't control his "hunger".

Other. The way I see it the story should follow the Exile after Kotor 2 or some new pc probably a former Sith apprentice who lost his master in the in fighting on Korriban (that means he'd have had something to do with the JCW). Now if the story follows after the Exile (I'm not going into how the gameplay will be affected) it follows that he runs into some uprising in a distant outer rim planet. Initially the Exile misunderstands it to be some kind of civil war brewing but he's stranded in the world as its strange citizens begin to react negatively to his arrival. His ship is out of his reach so he has to find a way out, but in the mean time he has to outwit a team of force adepts on his trail while trying to discover the big picture. ETC ETC. With a new pc, the story need not be elaborated. As for Revan ater TLS he has been relegated to the non descript-mysterious-pioneer I don't think we will see him again. We may hear about him but after five years in silence he is either dead or captured. Anything else would have to be cleverly handled otherwise it'll wind up seeming cheezy. I mean how long can you scout the enemy? 5 years seems to long a time to be doing that undetected. Might he be trying to sow in fighting among the sith? For one man to do this for five years, again seems cheezy and silly, especially if we are to believe that this threat is as dangerous as Kreia mentioned. For me, Revan is either dead or simply out of action.

Mandalorian wars?! It has to be the clone wars - brought about the Empire and the Jedi Purge, the GCW or the great hyperspace war (for without it there would be no wars in the Kun and Kotor eras).

A femme fatale if there ever was one. Check out the Assajj Ventress cover with Dooku

Well, in the technical sense none of them qualify. I think the thread starter just wanted a snappy title for the thread. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Visas Marr, Darth Traya and Tavion definitely classify as femme fatale's though.

Bastila technically isn't a femme fatale, she is an open book from the start and she predictably turns to the dark side pretty easily under Malak's forceful conversion methods. To be a femme fatale you need to be cunning, vicious, merciless and above all else, unpredictable.

"Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You will pay the price for your lack of vision. And now my young Jedi, you will die." - Palpatine as he tortures Revan with Sith lightning.

Lets see..... Darth Revan: Used a lightsaber ("canonically" anyway) Strategist - haven't seen any evidence of his great strategy, besides not being there when the MSG devoured Malachor. Beating on the Republic and causing problems doesn't equate to great strategy. But I'll take Mandalore's word for it (though his compliments were probably fueled by pride at losing to the Jedi). Manipulative ("War of conversion", remember?) Not a great positive, in fact it reflects more towards the air brained Jedi who followed him, rather than Revan himself, as it doesn't prove anything when you are able to convert someone who lacks vision. Jedi Revan (KOTOR 1 era): Uses a Lightsaber Uses the force: relatively powerful. Not a strategist - unless I missed some juncture in the game where he highlighted his great strategy. War Veteran Darth Sidious: Skilled with a Lightsaber Good Strategist - taking over the Republic and converting it into an Empire isn't something to be taken for granted. Manipulative Is able to bolster the wills of others and corrupt. Used his mind more than his might. Uses his deep knowledge of the force to bolster his Empire for 20+ years. An intelligent leader and an efficient administrator. Also, Palpatine is old, Revan is young but it makes no difference in the SW world. Palpy owns Mr. Revan, plus that cackling laughter makes him a 1oo times cooler than the silent non-distinct Revan.

Don't you mean NJO not OT. Power? When did this become such an important factor in making SW stories? I often overlook most of the NJO books because they are too filled with what seems like fluff. You know the...."he was so powerful he moved black holes" dribble. Stick to crafting stories that lean more to the subtle description of the force. Casting Sith lightning was considered complitely unnatural and awesome, now nearly every Sith/Jedi half wit can cast it; from cliche repository Malak, to a young Jacen Solo. Edited: These authors have relegated SW to the airy, lightweight fiction category with their nonsense.

When you fight Zez Kai Ell, Vrook and Kavar, you learn their forms simply by observing them within a matter of seconds. The fight starts off you, battle for a few seconds and voila, the Exile has learned the technique the masters are using against him. When he is in the ship and Kreia teaches him how to listen to thoughts, he learns instantaneously and Kreia comments that: "You are strong indeed." She also goes on to state that the Exile, in mere moments, has learned a technique most master take years to learn. And there are other examples. His bonding ability allows him to learn techniques within moments, and his own aptitude allows him to be able to defeat the masters with their own technique sometimes.

I agree with Jediphile in part. She may feel the Exile is her greatest because he has the ability to deny the will of the force. But let's look at the context for a second. Who has Kreia trained? She's trained Jedi/Sith/force users. If she calls the Exile her greatest, it means that he is the greatest Jedi/force user she has ever trained. The fact that Jedi are basically force users whose ultimate duty is to save or defend the galaxy, then she can only mean that the Exile is the greatest guardian of peace she has ever trained. I'll draw a comparison, when someone says: "you are the greatest actor I've seen", it means simply that they are the best all round actor they've seen. Greatness encompasses more than power, as the greatest at anything are able to put it all to together or use what they are good at, to maximum effect. For the Exile, I think Kreia means just this: that he is the best Jedi/force user, she has ever trained. He does it all better than anyone she's trained, or that he uses his strengths more exceptionally than anyone she's trained before.

She is subservient to the Exile, to serve a purpose. Notice how she never agrees to lead the Exile to Nihilus (as "subservient" as she is) because she feels he is not strong enough for Nihilus. I like arguing - believe me - but it's hard to argue when someone refuses to concede to very solid reasoning. Compared to Atton and Mical, Visas is certainly a more (for lack of wanting, to use a softer word) worthy romantic option.

Visas - i don't see how she is more equal to Exile when the whole point of her is her submiting to Exile. I'd anticipated that you'd write that. So here goes my reasoning. She is the last of the Miraluka: just like the Exile is purpoted to be the last of the Jedi (at least the last of the Jedi who can do somethign about the Sith). She is a seer of great wisdom. she is true to herself. She wasn't some shallow soldier who killed Jedi for the hell of it. She isn't some hapless, love sick fruit, who left the Jedi because the Master (they loved) went to war - nothing compelling there. She's a former apprentice of Nihilus (an uber powerful Sith Lord if there ever was one) and she knows - just as much as the Exile, what loss is. Are those good enough reasons for you?

Do you make your posts that long so that you don't suffer a rebuttal or what? Still think the Male Exile is preferable to the female. Bao Dur - war buddy understanding. Atris - her stifled passions for the Exile have been poisoned by her pride, into open hate. Handmaiden; need her for the launch codes to the polar academy plus she's so much more interesting with her Echani backround, her betrayal of Atris to become a Jedi like her mother Arren Kae, and there is this little motivation she has because the Exile reminds her of her father. Nice stuff. Visas - a lot of depth, possible love angle with the Exile and she is definitely more worthy or should I say more likely to be considered an equal to the Exile than let's say, an Atton or a Mical. Basically, a lot points Jediphile has stated and restated.