Darth Blivion

You haven't really offered a sensible argument here. The droid guide book doesn't add to or change the story in Kotor, so "canoninizing" a character off of that, really doesn't hold any water, as a defined character is not required for a droid guide book. So the jury is still out on that. I don't think LA would stand in the way of an authors use of the word "heroine". Why? It doesn't change or add to the Exile's story i.e. it doesn't affect anything ultimately, it's not continuity in other words. Lastly, to compare the variations in playthroughs to infinite stories isn't logical. An infinite story is an AU story arch - a dark side playthrough or male/female playthrough are anything but AU stories. They are very much a possibility within the universe the story is being told in. Very different circumstances here. If you don't understand the a ds resolution, male and female playthrough "happened", for the mere fact that they exist and are viable stories for continuity, then we shouldn't be having any disagreement. Because we are not disagreeing around the same points.

As I've said, there hasn't been an official statement declaring a "canon" gender for the Exile. These:' Exile is female "canonically"', statements are based on a single reference in a droid guide book. Now, last I checked, droid guide books don't qualify as fictional story books. My point is that a defined or undefined Exile (this goes for Revan as well) could have been used in those circumstances and neither would have changed the fact that the only story written on this character, has their identity undefined. The mere fact that this is fiction and that it has varied story archs involving one character, means that all the possibile stories and playthroughs have to be recognized as having "happened". The Exile was a Dark side Male just as much as he was a Light side Female, to say otherwise would be arguing that these variations never existed. This is why "canon" is an inappropriate word to use in fiction, especially when the character in question isn't potrayed with a defined identity or alignment. If one avatar, one defined character had been used, I would have no reason for disagreement. EDIT: Also, I expect that people will disagree with me. But the fact remains the Exile was referred to as a "heroine" in a single droid guide book (which is fine with me), what isn't fact however is that this translates to the female Exile being "canonized". LA have the power to determine what they want, but they also licensed the Kotor games, and unless they consolidate the "canon" status of Revan and the Exile with a story that overrides/disregards the customization of both games, both characters remain undefined. Their names are sexually androgenous for a reason, unless your going to use them as starring character in a book/novel, their characters identities don't need much definition.

I really hated that section on Dantooine. One of my favourites. Exile: "I know it's an odd request, but do you know any Echani poetry?" Handmaiden: "Personal shields, I love you so... crafting you and fighting with you... exhilarates me. {Sung as if reciting poetry, in a soft voice, keep the beats at the ellipses} You are the MAIN focus of my life... (except for my melee weapons and my armor)... {takes a breath at end before I love you} I love you so."

The Exile was referred to as a "heroine" in a droid guide. There has been no mention that this is the Exile they'll be using in future stories. That would be up to the authors and LA to decide. Personally, I put very little stock in "canon" versions of characters who were represented with undefined identities in the only medium (in this case video games) that had their stories.

You don't understand that after while, as the game doesn't explain a few things post Nihilus. Mira for some reason can't be detected by Kreia, so Kreia tells Hanharr to prepare himself to stop Mira or anyone who would disrupt the Exile's final trial at Malachor. The plot only explains this partially through the convo between Traya and Sion at Malachor. So Hanharr is there to basically stop Mira from interefering with what the Exile is supposed to encounter at Trayus Academy. As for the rest of your party? Most of them a probably trapped in the Hawk or are probably fighting off storm beast elsewhere who knows. Obsidian does a cruel thing, (unlike Bioware) they completely live out tthe characters who are not important to the end game. In Kotor 1 you had characters that were not important to the end game as well but Bioware either puts them in the end cutscene or forces you to kill them off (which I've never liked). Though Atton and Brianna had ther moments to shine on Telos, as did Visas and Mandalore, so it balances out.

I voted Telos. Citadel station, plus the beach with the shield grid on the horizon is probably the most aesthetically pleasing single site in both games (as far as beaches go Rakata's beach comes close but it didn't have that etheral glow coming from a shield network like Telos did). Dxun for second place - it didn't have the most gorgeous horizon scenery, but the immediate environment was probably the best in both games. Taris for it's upper level is a close third for overall planet and then Iziz. I wasn't that impressed by Rakata prime , it had a cool beach, but that's it. Manaan had the best sky view of all the planets, but on the ground itself it wasn't that special. Some of the underwater facility's scenery was good though. I also liked some of the visuals on Peragus. Walking in space to get to the dormitories was cool, if only the rest of the facility were that good looking.

Kotor 2. Better story IMO, it had more layers to it, there was more to do and affect in each planet than mere personal missions (like Kotor 1) i.e. you were bringing economic and political stability to the Republic with each planet you came across rather than spending time with party member family and friend reunions, or simple fetch missions. Also, I liked that Kotor 2 explored some SW themes and philosophies rather than settling for the tried and trusted RPG story cliches like Bioware did. The gameplay improvements also made it more enjoyable.

That plot line would work in fan fiction, not an official licensed game, it's too far fetched. Revan is either captured, killed or weakened significantly in some way, if not then Kotor 3 and Revan should have a parting of ways. If he is wekened he might have been able to infiltrate the Sith ranks, waiting for hi moment to escape or strike a large blow. If the Sith trully have an empire, no single man can hope to overthrow it on his own. If that's the case then the Exile, the Mandalorians and remnant Jedi would have to join the fight, or all will be lost.

I think Atris hints at this if you leave her to the Sith holocrons. She asks about the Sith teachings at Malachor and why they are based on 'leeching' or causing 'wounds'. The holocron's response is that the teachings act as some kind of beacon, but Obsidian chose not to elaborate on this. We can only assume that they are beacons for the 'True Sith' empire. Also, it is mentioned by Kreia that the 'True' Sith have 'forgotten' about Korriban and Malachor. If this is part of Obsidian's future story arch then it's another reason why The Exile has to destroy Nihilus and Sion: to prevent the True Sith from discovering two of their forgotten (and probably most dangerous) technique's. But seeing the direction Obsidian took Kotor, it's obvious to me that Revan is a little out of place. The 1st Kotor wasn't made to be part of a series. It's my view that Revan was added into the future plot partially because of fan service. What happened at Malachor doesn't seem as connected to Revan as it does the Exile. I think Revan's importance extends to the point where he tries to get back at these Sith for indirectly tempting him to the ds and causing the Mando wars, which then led him to start his own war. Revan's role doesn't extend to affect the symbolic significance of the new threat, that role goes to The Exile. If a new character is brought in, he'll have to be carefully placed in the story or otherwise he'll seem forced.

Kotor should have been made with this type of gameplay in mind for future incarnations of the title i.e. they should have designed a more action oriented gameplay style that would evolve into this, in time. It's a shame that they settled for the safer but underwhelming D&D based combat system.

Actually come to think of it, the Exile is mentioned as affecting specific events in the Mando wars; Malachor 5 (obviously), Dxun, Serroco, Eris 5 or at least he's mentioned along side some of these battles; Revan interestingly enough is not, except indirectly, like for instance he is mentioned as sending those Jedi and Republic officials who were not loyal to him to fight at Malachor. And a datapad on Dxun mentions Revan's expected arrival or at least he's expected to send re-enforcements. Otherwise his importance and placing in this largely undefined fictional war are a lot more vague in comparison to what we have of the Exile.

To be fair one has to thank K2 for these little piece of fictional history, without it Revan is a shadow of the character the Exile is potrayed as in K2. And before I go into anything else, Revan did turn out to be your run of he mill megalomaniac Sith Lord anyway. Who "busts up" a foundation, in order to make it stronger? He instigated a war to save the republic? It only ended up weakening it further. Or could we say it's just Kreia's wishful thinking? That she could never have imagined that one of her students had become just-like-every-other Sith? Now, as for the Exile not having a history, that is for you to affect in part. His motivations for joining the Mando. wars - it's up to you. His motivations for saving the galaxy or destroying the Jedi, are again up to the player to decide. What he was before K2 is only hinted at by Vrook (a poor source however you look at it), Atris (the PC responses are antagonistic to her descriptions), Bao Dur (one of the best sources), HK-47, Disciple, Kavar, Kreia (at least she mentions Dxun and hints at the Exile's future), Vander (dantooine droid) and Ludo Kressh's (sp*) tomb. Any of those little unfilled pockets of fictional history allow for interesting possibilities, with Revan we know everything there is to know, there's no mystery left and where there's no mystery there is little interest.

That takes time. K2 is still selling and represents the last kotor game so far, I'm willing to bet that it hits platinum end of the year or beginning of 2007.

Also, (I forgot to add this) the Exile is described by the Masters as unpredictable, besides being defant. This for me was just a little story element fittted in to make room for a player defined Exile. The Exile unlike Revan has no set agenda, he can be many things at once. Even Kreia mentions that you're not trully jedi/sith. The lack of a set Exile, is something that some people might dislike.

As a character I thought the Exile was better conceived. In Kotor 1 there's little you know of Revan except that he was a Jedi hero turned Sith Lord, as if that isn't over played in SW. The Exile's reaction after Malachor, points to something no one has brought up, unlike Revan he refused to follow the force, turning from the force at Malachor was (in SW) the ultimate show of defiance. The alternative would have been falling to the dark side like Malak and Revan, but he didn't. This for me identifies the Exile as a character with a stronger will than Revan. Also, the concept of the Exile character is that his motivations are more dependent on the players choices than were Revan's. Revan, as someone said is your basic Superman template i.e. create a character that's supposedly superior to everyone else, then let the gamers play around with a few choices, but in all this Revan's character is shallow, or if not shallow, vague. The Exile concept is built around decisions that are designed to illustrate the Exile's character. How you react to Atris, Zez Kai Ell and the other masters; how you manipulate and influence your party members; are all situations engineered to give you the player, a chance to shape the Exile's character. There's no plot twist here to change everything. So, from that percpective the Exile is a slightly better character.

The combat is OK at best. I wish they would allow for more freedom in combat that is all. The current system doesn't allow for much real time strategy (you engage everyone the same whether they have ranged weapons or not) and what are supposed to be epic lightsaber duels are really only slow unimpressive restricitve by turns kiddy jousts. A new system would allow for the environment to play a part in defense against ranged fire, offense through lifting and throwing objects with the force etc etc I can't believe they went for the bear minimum with this D&D set up in the 1st place. I blame Bioware for not trying to establish a star wars identity with the combat, D20 is an easier way to handle the combat but not necessarily the better way.

JA was superior because of two things:- 1) Action gameplay in combat can be a lot more fun than D&D gameplay in combat. 2) The concept of applying D&D rule sets in combat in real time scenarios, is an interesting concept, but it didn't quite achieve what it could have with Kotor. Because Kotor lacks real time strategy, has generally unremarkable animations and not very intuitive combat, JA's combat is superior. JA delivered on the on the few things it set out to accomplish: bringing intensity and tension into the combat experience.

It's more like a thousand years before tpm. By episode 1 'the rule of two' was a thousand years old.

Jedi Academy had better combat gameplay than Kotor, it's no contest. JA was an action game: superior gameplay is what it's all about. Unless Kotor breaks from the not--quite-progressive D&D based combat system (how the hell do you justify applying turns, to super human Jedi combat?), JA will continue to be the better game in the combat category. Who said that combat in JA lacks finesse? My single-blade Jaden had plenty of nifty moves. JA sticks to Star Wars tradition with its gameplay; Kotor on the other hand, is based off D&D traditions. Force choking enemies then throwing their carcasses off a ledge, beats every one of the "force powers" in Kotor. Kotor tries with force crush and few other abilities, but when the system doesn't allow Force users to block certain moves it becomes lame. In JA any and every force user can block or counter your offensive force maneuvers.

None of these video game characters are significant to SW as a whole. It's just that Kotor happens to be one of the most interesting story archs in SW at present.

I always thought the dialogue responses seemed to be tailored for a female, not a male. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What do you mean? The ds jerk responses? The loading rump references? The mostly neutral options? The charitable LS options? How was it tailored for a female when some of the best quotes from the Exile leaned toward a masculine character?

Yes, we can set them both to be whatever we want them to be, BUT canonical character is who really lived in SW world, other characters are just "what (s)he might have been if he would've fallen to darkside or if (s)he would've been different gender" when it comes to contiunity. For example, Kyle Katarn may fall to DS in Jedi knight, but canon says that he stayed as LS, and both Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy treat him like that, so does all other EU. If there is going to be reference to Revan or Exile in some other EU book or comic, they are going to be LSM and LSF. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can guarantee you that there'll never publish a story based on these 2 characters and have them with their "canonical" genders, that will always be undefined as far as the Kotor series is concerned. So how does defining genders in an essentials guide matter a lick when those 'canonical' backgrounds are not used where it counts: the game, the only media these characters are features in?

Revan's 'canonical' gender can work both ways. As for the female Exile as someone said above, a three way girl fight?! Seem's too coincedental, plus Disciple without a Handmaiden adventuring beyond the Polar region = No good.

Unless they make published stories on Revan and the Exile, there genders are whatever we choose them to be. Essential guide my ass? Let them make a story that's says otherwise, as for me Revan and the Exile are undefined. The only published story on these characters has them undefined.