Walsingham

I think it would mitigate some of the problems, yes. This argument is much like that we had recently about the drugs, as Di pointed out.

Human justice is inevitably going to be inaccurate, I accept. I accept that the death penalty will therefore inevitably lead to wrongful deaths, and that these will suck. However, many feel (myself included, some days) That because of te parole system and the nature of violent/serious offenders that they go on to commit more crimes. Some of these crimes are murders. Murders of innocent people. Thereore by not instituting the death penalty, or at least permanent life imprisonment, the State is responsible for innocent deaths in turn. Did that hang together?

Firstly, I think taks was bang on about the false premise of assuming that making prostitution illegal prevents it. It blatantly doesn't. It does, however, concentrate the protitution under oragnised crime and pimping, rather than permitting the women to run themselves. In fact i've run into a couple of feminists who took the view that prostitution being illegal was oppression of women, not the other way round. Having said this I've met enough actual prostitutes (steady you giggling gerties, I used to research organised crime) to know that many of them are in the game for bad reasons. Prostitution, and the use of prostitutes is a dirty business. I don't condone it. But I do know that the last thing these women need is to have approbation heaped on their existing worries. I could go on, but I have a theory that no-one reads more than two paragraphs.

Right right. It's kind of nerdularly humorous that Thomas Hobbes equated morality with survival. So can I choose both? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dammit! That was going to be my nerdy answer. If I had to choose I _say_ morals, but from past experience I know it is survivability. On the other hand I think morals should eb more important. I mean yo have GOT to die, but you don't have to die immoral. EDIT: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48461 Article on this very point!

What a strange bot.

I'd be willing to bet that they get Health Insurance on teh State. Funy how legislators always do well on state programs. Like our dear MPs and their pensions.

Thanks for taking the time to go through al that, mate. I appreciate it. Like you I get pretty finicky where my taxes are concerned. I get finicky about people getting stuff on my dollar, and get furious about people taking from me and the country and doing sweet FA in return. But I'm also a realist (as I see things ) and I am prepared to bite a small price over a big one. I am particularly prepared to do so if I can trade off that small price in exchange for seeing my concerns about violent crime, terrorism, and general world poverty/corruption addressed. All of which are linked heavily to the black market and drug money. Obviously I'd like to see no-one trying these drugs. I just don't think that happens by fighting them as we have done. We have to get sneaky.

O Ya! The US completely pawned her off at just the right time. Enjoy! Maybe we can get Micheal Jackson to marry the Queen or something <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I knew it! We DO have a security leak!

I'm not saying it's better, but I think Cyberpunk used to use 'seduction' as a feature of how er... seductive you were. Charisma meant how good you were at handling people.

I think Meta's view is correct. Don't fudge the one roll. Make them take a 'recovery' roll. If they fail twice they won't feel so bad about suffering the ill effects. Personally I don't hold with rolling for any kind of diplomacy type stuff, unless it is things which aren't 'mission critical' like library work, or getting across toll bridges, or through militia checkpoints. But I'm not going to pretend like I fidn it easy to deal with stuff like that. I'm lousy at it!

Henceforth known as the 'Kroney' method.

I'd like to act out of character and start running around, waving my arms, and claiming this is clearly a fix up by the CIA.

I'm not narked that you don't agree. I thought weren't paying attention. And it's fair enough that you want a source for the figures. I'm basing my argument on: 1) The opium poppy grows with no encouragement on land too harsh for any other crops. It is fantastically easy to harvest the sap and treat it until it is No 3 grade. No 4 grade is only marginally harder to achieve. - Choose your own sources for this. Pretty clear. 2) The 'wholesale' price in Afghanistan in particular is around

I steal your women by having a cute butt.

I think if we're going to talk about the potato famine and Ireland then that would be another topic. As for persecution I think intent does matter. I don't know much about early Irish history so I can only point at something i do know about - the Boer War. Many Boers get quite emotional about how bad conditions were in the concentration camps (yes, we invented them) used to 'drain the pond' of supporters for the Boer guerrilla campaign. It is quite possible to point at the conditions and feel outraged. But what people seem to miss is that the Army, who was responsible, ran its OWN camps for its OWN soldiers in scarcely more organised and effective fashion. Incompetence, and insensitivity were the crimes, not conspiracy. But back on topic, I am afraid I do love Blighty, even if I'd swap it for other places if Blighty fades away.

I'm sorry gentlemen, but this is drifting in unsettling and irrelevant directions. It's a significant issue, but one that we don't seem to be able to address appropriately.

Gfted1, I'm a little narked that you don't seem to have listened to very much of what I've been saying. A year's supply of heroin only costs thousands because it is illegal. It's the only reason. In its unlegislated form it is easier and cheaper to create than wheat flour. Imagine for a moment that someone was commiting crimes to fund a debilitating cardboard habit. What we're saying is, just give them the damn cardboard. Methadone, on the other hand, being an artificial chemical, actually _is_ expensive to make, and is far worse for you, encouraging among other things, bone cancer [i've no facts on the bone cancer thing, but I've heard it so many plces I haven't bothered checking].

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6175759.stm We've been having a sequence of murders here in the UK, which you may have heard of. I append this article, which observes that many of the women working the sex trade are doing so purely to fund their drug habit. Arresting a prostitute ONCE and cautioning her (not even giving her any penalty)costs more than simply giving her heroin for a year.

I think it would be great if it started before the war. then peopel would be forced to take sides.

I should say you will get some NCOs and officers demanding blind obedience. They just won't get it. And they will be labelled twits. You have to be willing to play fast, and that sometimes means acting without a long explanation, but basically it's not automation. The reason is not cause we're somehow superior. It's just that we can't afford the luxury of all that blind obedience. It's more flattering for the highups but it makes you less effective. And our forces are too small.

Well, IMO that's one the things that's wrong with your Army at the minute. The British Army does drum blind obedience into you at basic training. But they immediately demand you start thinking for yourself on service or you are labelled a twit.

Gibraltar ain't Spain, buddy. But it isn't the UK, so I guess it would qualify.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6210358.stm Perhaps we could trade people with other countries?

I don't know why joining men and women is supposed to create harmony. Inmy experience the net effect is to create mortal enemies.

The best fighting soldier is one who follows orders without question. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You must be used to getting better orders than I am.