Walsingham

Sand wins the thread. I went a bit far back then saying we were out of line being suspicious of cops. I mean I've seen and met too many brutal cops to think we should not closely examine their actions. But I also know enough straight cops to want to not confuse bad with mistaken. But I do maintain that rentacops are almost inherently rubbish, and ought to be given the minimum equipment feasible. Anyone that won't go reasonably quietly can be dealt with by the proper state authorised jackals.

I don't think I'm being mendacious if i draw a distinction between the troops and the natsec boys. Cool posters, though. Anyway, Astr0, I'm not getting riled. I just wanted clarification. If that's the general impression you have it's important to explore it, because I've met many people who feel that way and aren't smart enough to see it as a general impression. They'll stand stock still and claim "it's obviously true". I wonder if there isn't some sort of flip 1950s thing going on where we have an unjustified lack of faith in the state, and by inference its servants. Why is this, and is it a phase?

Normal is just a synonym for mediocre, or at least that's what they tell me in my behavioural therapy classes. And how exactly are these things like posters here? What is a deathmonger in board terms?

I couldn't claim commandos have never been used to provoke attacks before. But arguing they were in this case isn't going to get you very far with me. Or are you saying that this is your general impression? In any event, saying there is power projection as well is - in my opinion - rather potato/potaato. Aid agencies make their livings helping people. If Africa ever becomes stable there are going to be less jobs going. Does that mean they aren't helping?

I saw that episode with Jonny. The guy is truly heroic, for all us idiots. It makes much more sense that these were rentacops who did the tasering. Private security firms, from bouncers to nightwatchmen are typically run on a shoestring with virtually no selection, training, or oversight. I'd ditch the firm as a warning to the next bunch. Interesting, though, isn't it, that we were so ready to accept the notion of brutal cops?

most amusing. I particularly like the punishments.

It's when you see stuff like that, that you have trouble being a 'dog person'.

I actually agree with Azarkon on his main point, as he so eloquently expressed it. I really don't think one can support the troops in either the moral or practical sense unless you are supportive of their mission. The key, as he says, is that they are volunteers, and particularly in the case of new volunteers have quite categorically signed up to go to the war. They don't want to hear bs about supporting them in spirit but not in fact. They want people to understand and support what they are doing and why they're doing it.* I think that in part this is one of the reasons why many troops give such a frosty reception to journalists, because they feel they are being let down. However, I think we do need to draw a distinction between what the troops see as their mission and what we civilians over our breakfast cereal see as their mission. Talking to men and women coming back from Afghanistan reveals that they see it as a mission of aid, stability, and reconstruction. They are utterly incomprehending of our moral qualms about that mission. They couldn't give a monkeys about George Bush or Tony Blair. They believe what they have set out to do is precisely the kind of thing they saw in the recruitment adverts. Helping people and protecting them. So perhaps the disjunction arises because from our standpoint many people see their work as power projection, not aid and protection. The question arising for me is why we cannot understand that the two things can occur in parallel. And that rather than support 'our boys' we could support certain aspects of their work and not others. ~~ Good debating so far, tho, guys. *I think they'd be grateful for the cakes, letters, etc in any case, but that's not enough.

I'd have thought you should just quit worrying about balance. I mean why not balance toads as a PC race? It ought to be about the roleplaying. It's not a wargame.

Is it? I thought it sounded too technical a description. I reacll one Aussie telling me I was a good bloke because I 'knew the rules'. But when I asked what they were he just shrugged. "You either know 'em or you don't. You, you know the rules."

"We would just like more support from home," one Marine said, and when pushed as to what exactly he just repeated, "...just more support." A quote from a Royal Marine posted in Afghanistan, reported by the BBC. It sharpened a thought I had recently which is that while our troops can lose the war in Afghanistan by fighting badly, or losing people's trust through abuse and mistakes, or our politicians can lose it by failing to give them the kit to perform, we can also lose by not giving our support. Indeed, because we are democracies we are arguably the quickest and simplest point of failure in the whole tangle. I'm not advocating unstinting support for everything our Armed Forces do abroad. But it does occur to me that - particularly in Afghanistan, where many welcome the work we are doing - it would absolutely monstrous if our armed and aid forces were capable of delivering the country into peace and security ...and we simply pulled the rug out from under them. Monstrous for them in terms of their sacrifices, and monstrous for the people of Afghanistan. I'd like to take this discussion a couple of ways. Firstly to talk about what support we owe to the Armed Forces. Secondly if you do not support them, what you would need to see change before you would. While I feel very strongly on this point I will endeavour to remain calm and listen to conflicting views.* I would ask everyone to do likewise. * I may, of course, fail. :D

I dunno. I think being mates is better than friends. But mateship? That sounds very un Aussie to me.

I thought lobotomy actually made people less easy to control, not more easy.

1) The individual was being a brain donor. He gets no sympathy from me for being an attention seeking fethwit. Just offer yur ID, if you don't have it, ask politely if you could stay to do some work. If not, head out and chil out. 2) Being a brain donor, even a shouty brain donor, does not mean you get zapped. 3) Cops in the Uk are expected to put up with abuse as part of the job. They are still obliged to use minimal force, and indeed I've seen far worse than this end with them reasoning with a guy. Hell I saw some cops in Brighton get urinated on by a man breaking down a door, and they calmly and politely restrained him, talked him down, and offered to simply drive him home. 4) Failing to react well should not mean you get instantly fired. Being a cop is damn difficult. Put before a tribunal and disciplined certainly. Fired I think is excessive. They're not flipping Supermen. They get scared and get things wrong. 5) The halfwits egging it all on are just pathetic. I have no problem with student activists where it means something. But being a student activist when the worst that can happen (normally) is they ring your parents... climb down off your che guevara themed high horse.

I dislike emoticons generally, but have got used to them. It's like speaking Latin when in Rome. Why dislike all Aussie slang? It's no worse than any other slang...

It seems to me that Sony would have done well letting various charities have copies ahead of time.

I think that's a bit harsh. Good economics helps avoid wars.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/6158416.stm Looks like two schoolboys acted remarkably sensibly and bravely, tracking a drunken rapist and gathering additional forces before closing and conducting a citizens arrest.

Doesn't "Borderline" mean "almost, but not quite" and, therefore, is ok? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Borderline images are to NSFW images what a rubber bullet is to a 7.62 NATO round. One won't get you killed. Three or four is pretty serious. Best not to use them.

I'm posting while hungover. Am I cool? No? I'll go stand over here then...

This thread seems to be generating an unhealthy number of borderline images. Go get out and have some real fun, why don't ya? It's Friday.

If you think about economics in system terms I'd have thought that increasing energy demanded increasing control. While, naturally, accepting limits to that control.

I should say again, that with a modern PC, and the patch I never had a single bug. I had a couple of close cals where I _thought_ I had a bug, but they turned out to be missed clues.

I have no objection to a halfwit buying a PS3 for 2300 quid. Just so long as I also get tehir name and address. I could sell them lots of other things.

They can go console only. But I fear I could not afford to follow them.