Walsingham

There is no shortage of examples of countries left to 'get better on their own', such as Somalia, Afghanistan (prior to the invasion), Cote D'Ivoir, to name a few. They don't get better. They stay locked in an endless cycle of violence, and total degradation. The only way they ever escape is by imposition of order. If that order is imposed domestically it occurs through some bastard hauling himself up to the point where he has sufficient military strength. This typically occurs through the most brutal means, and often collapses under its own rapacity. The alternative, as was demonstrated in the balkans, and as we were doing in Afghanistan (before we became confused about the importance of civilian aid), is armed intervention in the conflict, regime change, and gradual stablilisation. This collapses when the apathetic fidgety masses get distracted by a new pair of shoes, and demand a pull out. To use an analogy, you are advocating what amounts to a Christian Science approach to teh health of countries, whereas I recognise the facility of surgery and medicine. What we are witnessing in Iraq is the consequence of our opening up a patient, then - because they're having a crisis - we just walk off without even suturing them up. Azarkon, you will no doubt have noticed this is not a million miles away from the Neocon position on Iraq in the first place.

What possible purpose could this have served? Maybe the wardrobes caught fire and the good people attending the party were just trying to put them out. This would gel with the fact that someone had been stubbing out cigarettes on everything.

So? I was once so hungry I ate a whole packet of toothpicks.

Azarkon, you make a fair point which is that I can come across too strong in favour of the US administration's given reasons. For e the entire concept - and entirely worthwhile concept - was the removal of the Hussein dynasty, and the liberation of Iraq. On teh other hand thsi does not mean that we should ignore the mental challenge of debating whether WMDs really were present. However, on this particular occasion I was wasting my time trying to draw Sando into a logical debate. Which is as fruitful as trying to beat a fox terrier at poker. He doesn't appear interested in playing the game. Any man who argues we should get out of Iraq should first (in my opinion) acquiant himself with the details of what happened in Rwanda. Because a full ethnic war in Iraq will make Rwanda look like a rough Friday night on the town. I find it unbelievable that anyone could face the reality of what that would mean without outrage and an insistence that something be done. Except of course it will be too late. The behaviour of a few thousand insurgents should not mean you abandon the millions who are NOT attacking the authorities, and are in fact daily providing intelligence that permits counter-insurgency strikes. Or would you like your own country's destiny to be decided by the 'free' militia nutcases up in Wyoming? Moreover any line of logic which will take you into war with China is completely redundant.

Agreed. He wasn't even particularly religious, initially (or arguably at all). He was in the process of building the largest mosque in the world, as part of his new image as Arab religious leader. I wouldn't be surprised if he harboured a desire to become the Caliph of the Ummah. A mosque with scud shaped minarets, no less. You can't argue with the fact that he took the mad dictator thing seriously.

Like nettles?

I see. Well, that's why God invented private investigators.

She could have been high by the time it kicked off. EDIT: seems to me like a good time to pick up a house cheap in a very nice bit of the country, if they eally are selling up.

But Fox programming is usually so classy!

What in the name of Sainted Norah is a Bluebie?

5.7 Million? What? I know that's only in American money, but that has to be at least fifteen guineas in proper money.

Ditto. You want we should only help countries with feth all? Does this mean that my doctor only helps me because he gets paid? You don't think he could maybe be working under more than one motivation? We've been through this before (Gorgon and I discussed it), and I'll say again that if you look at historical records of how the US executive makes decisions on the scale of an invasion you are talking about having to satisfy many separate 'players': Treasury, Pentagon, White House, fund raisers etc etc. The idea that you could go to war only for cash is as bizarre as the notion that you could go to war only for good will. Incidentally, I've been doing some background reading. 1) Saddam may have had trouble with Al Qaeda in the past, but his connections with Palestinian and Hamas terrorism was well established. There are public records of his officials having videotaped ceremonies congratulating the families of suicide bombers, and giving them cash. There are also suggestions that he tolerated the existence of training camps, although there were far more convenient locations for these in Lebanon and Syria. I do not think the US Chimp-in-Chief would have had much success grasping any distinction between the two types of Arab terrorist. Hence his rather baffling insistence that Saddam was backing Al Qaeda at the time. Saddam's priority at all times was power, glory, and his own survival. He could and did shift positions quite fluidly. It is therefore not inconceivable that he could have - if still in power - come to support Al Qaeda as a means of retaining his status as strong man, and 'leader of all Arabs' (his fondest ambition). While Al Qaeda was certainly a threat to him, insofaras it threatened the United States it woudl always be regarded with a hopeful eye. 2) The notion that Iraqi WMDs coud have gone to Syria is entirely plausible. Syria has always had a byzantine intelligence appartus, as befits any first class authoritarian regime. It also has a demonstrably porous border with Iraq, as evidenced by the history of smuggling in both directions, but particularly the trade in counter-embargo oil. Hundreds of thousands of barrels were being passed across this border every day under Saddam. This provide ample cover for any movement. Concealing Iraqi WMDs in the country would be acheived by the simple expedient of putting them amongst existing Syrian WMDs. The Syrians already being in possession of both materiel and delivery mechanisms. ~ I am therefore more convinced than ever that it is far easier to account for the way WMD did exist and were then moved than that they unaccountably vanished. Finally, it's nice to see some new faces. I guess it wasn't so completely daft to raise the issue.

Bad parenting. Which is exactly why this all started in the first place. Kids these days are retarded, they don't understand things like consequences and what is hugely retarded idea. So you've NEVER had a party go 'awry'? I submit that anyone who answered yes is not having sufficiently good parties.

Nothing like partaking in the violation of someone's privacy to set you up for the day? if they violated their own privacy to pump a business for money I'd watch. On the subject of hirings, From what I can tell the hirings take place with minimal backround checks. And generally the employer will try to do everything he can to save money (excons and illegals) I used to work at a cash register with a vietnamese gang member who was convicted of armed Robbery. I don't think it was done with law suits in mind. Have I misunderstood? My question would be whether you would regard a bank employee who steals your cash from your accounts to be a problem for just you or for the bank.

Nothing like partaking in the violation of someone's privacy to set you up for the day?

Well, exactly. I've never understood Myspace. The only people you'd want to know the stuff you put on there know it already!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/6551589.stm Let this be a lesson to you young pups. If you do plan any kind of large party ensure you have on hand, or quick access to, some way of ejecting persons who are out of order. When I was at uni we used to keep a special stash of 'certain' ingredients that when burned would produce this highly unpleasant smoke.

I can't tell if the shivering I'm experiencing is revulsion or startlement. Maybe they were aiming for Borat, and just got plain crud. Racial humour is like fugu fish. It has to be prepared and served by a master. Not by minimum wage yobs in the basement at Fox's lair.

You realise you could have had a quiet word with a journalist about this? That's just revolting. As for the employee liability, the wole way a company works is that you are accountable for your employees' behaviour while on the job. This is why you have a code of conduct. The flip side, as we kind of see above is where the phone and gas companies hire crack-addled parolees to do your housework. Then deny its anything to do with them if your stuff goes astray. This is one more reason why selection of personnel is the unassailable primary thing you should look at in any organisation.

Capsaicin on the loo roll.

Just out of interest do you ever get the urge to see things in colour?

Ah vodka. *happy sigh* I trust it's nice and cold.

What a remarkably bloodthirsty chap you are. 1. You do realise that your proposal would mean killing a lot of guys in Afghanistan who were at best footsoldiers in a game they had even less say in than understanding. 2. On whose say so do you accept that Al Qaeda and the Talibs were behind 9/11? 3. 100% certainties don't exist in my sock drawer, let alone in international espionage.

I swear fallout 2 did highlight them. Or am I thinking of Fallout Tactics?