SilverSun

I've always been one that believed it wasn't so much the Power used as the reasons why it was used. I.E. Luke and Force Choke in ROTJ,however that's subjective. Lightsiders should be at a disadvantage when they fight because it is their choice to be good. LS isn't at a disadvantage really,the right set of LS powers make the DS power damn near useless. All a matter of playing style though.

People are different,maybe some people do hate him. Where I wouldn't say I hated Can,I'll Take Carth or Zal over him in a fight. Personality wise,Can was a thug with a big gun through most of the game until the Unknown world,if you played out his story. So if it is Can,a lot will depend on how they play him out. If the change it,some people who didn't like him in Knights might now. Most of the people who liked him in Knights pry won't be happy. So more then likely his personallity won't be all that different if he's in. If it's not,you've got the leader of the Mandalorians,who's personality will pry be even more "Thug with a Gun" then Can's was. Other wise he wouldn't be their leader.

Not everyone liked the character. I pry won't use the character unless I have to either way.

Interesting,Thanks.

Why not? A Jedi, even cut from the Force, would have great reflexes and physical conditioning and much from lightsaber combat can be applied to normal melee fighting. And as our char also has actively participated in the wars, it would make sense for him to have other martial skills as well. Very true,but Cons were less about fighting then the other classes. So where I have no doubt a Con could fight,I doubt a person who was one would search out a line of work like a Merc. It would be pretty hard on players who don't follow the previews and wouldn't know that they can't use firearms on Peragus or don't get their lightsaber at once. Hard and unfair, IMHO. Either that or Peragus would have to be a complete walkover, which would be boring. Unfair? How? I'm sure there will be something in the game to say that firearms aren't allowed on Peragus and why. And there are a lot of ways things could be worked to balance the fighting until you gained a lightsaber,or some other weapon of your choice. Besides what's to say you couldn't use a weapon without the feat? Just wouldn't be as good with it,could still fight and win. How can an additional default feat be a waste? I never used firearms with my PC in KOTOR1, nor power attacks or heavy/medium armor feats that came from starting as a Soldier. But since it didn't reduce the number of feats I could chose, I couldn't care less. It's a waste because there a number of feats that they could be used for instead of on something that'll be used once or twice and then never touched again. Which is why I am in favor of letting the player select more then one feat at the start. When you create your character,have maybe 4 or 5 preset class feats and then 4 or 5 feats the player then selects based on how they want to create their character. OTOH, I would strongly dislike it if I'd be forced to spend some of the meager amount of feats my Consular would get in KOTOR2 on things that would be only useful in the beginning of the game. Why I'm an fan of putting the choice in the players hand. Re: party members. We don't know how soon we'd pick them up.... And it would be extremely tedious if I'd have to hold my PC back, completely passive for however long... just because I chose wrong feats while starting up T3,Atton,Kreia,at least will all be on P.Station. So there's some back up to help until your character gets their feet planted.

Oh, come on, we all know that lapsed Jedi become mercs . Maybe a pilot for hire would be a possibility as well, but the game mechanics really wouldn't accomodate this choice. A former Sentinel might have worked as some kind of mechanic, but the other 2 Jedi classes surely not. Basically, there is a restricted number of job skills a defrocked Jedi would have and for a war veteran, fighting skills would be the most honed and useful. Do we even know the character took on a job? Of any kind? He/She might have simply lived on the edge of the galaxy in a "normal" type of life,we don't know the circumstances around the character's life after the exile. And where I can see perhaps a Guardian being a Merc,A Con? Pry not. And the Guardian could have just been a Bouncer in a Cantina where he/she ruffed drunks up. Re: starting weapon feats. The problem here is that we don't know when we'd get the lightsaber feat and find our first lightsaber, thus we'd need some other fighting feat. But on Peragus one can't use firearms, so leaving it up to player's choice might result in an unplayable character. Imagine a Consular with a blaster pistol skill fighting his way through Peragus bare-handed. Would be pretty frustrating to say the least. Also, this time around there'd be some reason to use different weapon tipes at least occasionally, since we'd have an alternative weapons slot. Where that's true: A)Nothing saying the Devs are going to make it easy on us. B)We have other party members. So, I'd say at least a basic melee weapon feat should be included in the character makeup by default and maybe one or more firearms skills as well. Hmm,maybe the melee. But even that I'd rather not have. The firearm is a waste unless you're going to play with blasters through out the game. Which is fine if that's how you want to play but I'd rather that choice be in the players hands.

*LOL*...I think the point of Yoda was,"Never judge a book by it's cover." because the Force is in all things no matter the size. That point wouldn't have worked in a Mace Windu Body,least not as well.

The only one I've seen? No. The only to say it with such passion? Without a doubt. I've known a lot of people who didn't care for Yoda or didn't think he was as great as others do but you're the first one to say it like that. Too each their own,I like Obi-Wan but feel he's just an above average Jedi and a horrible Master. Not everyone agrees with that,wasn't busting you.

Wow,first case I think I've ever seen of Wild Yoda Issues.

no..really it a game i dont hear anyone complaining about lightsaber not making instant kill on critical hit like in movies, so why should robes be any different Seen a few people complain about that actually.

Lucas won't release too much info on the character. Says he never will apparently.

Old Republic Sith Lords=EU authors trying to make their characters bigger then the OT,even though the OT individuals are suppose to be among the best in their class. However,with little to no info about Yoda's past other the then movies it's a little hard to say. And everyone will form their own opinion anyway.

Jedi Watchman

So does Owen Lars and he's no Jedi. Then it's not a Jedi's Robe silly. It's a Farmer's robe.

True,time will tell.

How come Jedi robes aren't normal clothing? Can you provide any example in which Jedi robes provide superior protection to that offered by regular clothing? Because Jedi have them. But seriously,I meant from a game mechanic stand point they're not considered normal clothing. And they're not because items of that nature worn by the characters are going to have some kind of Def Value to them. They tried to help balance this out by given the robes a very low Def value,but they're going to have something. Again sabers,story wise, should cut people in two in a single swing if they connect. Yet here,the damage you did with the saber was based on your stats/crystals and such. Would a robe stop a blaster shot? No. Would your run of the mil Armor stop a saber? No. It's all a matter of trying to find a balance. I don't see adding a little def to the Robes as hurting anything. You may be a wiz at creating characters in games such as these,but as you said,not everyone is. So they need to balance that. *LOL*Sith Pj,do they have little red sabers on them?

Doesn't say it's class specific though. Could be something the Sith Lord class gets for free and others have to learn. Though neither did the topic creator say anything about it being class specific. Thanks BTW.

I donno,I've had some pretty thick Bath Robes... "

Where did you read that? Not saying your wrong but I was under the impression that Force Crush was not a matter of class but something your character had to learn from someone who all ready knew it. Maybe it's both. *ponders*

There is a reason to have a zero def value on a robe. The reason is, zero is the def value of the rest of clothing. I don't see how Jedi robes are different. *Shrugs*A Jedi Robe isn't normal clothing. I don't see any need to hinder the player by having a 0 Def value. It's a game after all and the Def value is a game mechanic,not part of the story. Most items of that nature that are worn are going to have some kind of Def value to it. Be kind of like getting upset because the Ligthsabers don't kill in one hit or someone taking 20 shots and not falling down. It's a game not real life and some things aren't going to match up. It throws off the balance between the story and game mechanics.

Oh without a doubt Armor would hinder movement,however that doesn't mean one couldn't use some if he/she wanted too. And game wise the larger the Armor the less of a Dex boost you get. There's no real reason to have def value of zero on a Robe. Not like any of them have a def value of 10 or something,which would be a bit much for a robe. They're all low,even the good ones.

Yeah, fine. I may accept the fact of Jedi wearing armor (even though I don't like it), since in the EU it's not unheard of. But, what I don't see coherent, gameplay-wise or storywise, is that Jedi robes are treated as armor, but without incurring in the penalties associated with armor. Gameplay-wise, a Jedi PC doesn't need a boost to defense, the game is already easy enough. And story-wise, there's no explaining how a piece of cloth may offer protection against blaster fire... or worse. In fact, in the movies Jedi are often hit by blasters, and it doesn't seem their rags protect them at all. That's why the def value is much lower then armor. But then again, I may be asking this game to be something it was not meant to be. Ever play as an Armor Jedi? Makes playing with the robes seem like a little bit of a challenge. BTW, how come we always end up hijacking the thread so badly? In our past lives we were train robbers. :cool:

I'm not speaking about the materials used to fabricate the robes here. I'm referring mostly to Jedi never wearing any kind of armor. For a Jedi the Force provides all the needed defense. Jedi robes are, as you said yourself, a symbol of the Jedi order, the traditional attire, if you will, but not an armor. Jedi aren't warriors, they are peacekeepers, they have no business wearing armors. Warriors are not the only ones who wear armor. They're Peacekeepers yes but they understand there are times that may come when they need to or have to fight. They may have the Force but they're still mortal,they can still and do die. Nothing wrong,from a story line stand point,with a Jedi boosting their own Def,or the robes having an def value. They can't be a Peacekeeper if they're dead.From a game mechanic and balance stand point the robes are made to have much less Def then armor. Even the one of a kind Robes can't match the Armor. Not completely accurate. The only powers that you can't use while wearing armor are Force speed and Force armor, if I'm not mistaken, you can use most DS powers at will. It makes sense, since it both Force speed and Force armor grant heavy defense bonuses, which added to the armor's defense bonus results in cheese, big time. If you watch carefully, Bandy only uses DS powers and Force immunity, so he's not 'cheating'. Never said he was cheating and I never went dark so I didn't know that,my mistake. I understand the reason and need for the balance there.

Hmm,so they did my mistake.

All right. But this is a RPG after all isn't it? You should be allowed to do whatever you felt like (within reason). Anyway, I wouldn't really mind if only Jedi could wear Jedi robes, but it's a long way from there to considering a piece of cloth a +5 armor with max DEX bonus of +8, and an extra +5 to WIS. Darth Bandon's armor was balanced and was coherent with the SW universe. Qel-Droma's & SF robes, were not. SW universe has a lot of strange things,some sort of fiber or material that could give a "normal" robe special attributes is not incoherent. Even more so if you consider they were one of a kind robes,not every robe out there had those stats. And the Qel,robes if IIRC,did not add anything to Wis,only the SF robes did which you gained at the end of the game and were created by the SF. Also not incoherent with in the realm of SW. If anything not being able to wear armor and cast Force Powers is more of break in the SW world. Needed for the balance of the system but still I've never seen anything saying someone couldn't use the force because of what they had on. Even more so when when Bandon could and anyone else could not.