DarthWeevil

I don't entirely agree... though much of what you said does fit into my own view *flexs knuckles with a crack* Ok. this might meander a bit so i apologise if it does. gonna try and be buddhist about it as much as possible. If religion were not based on dogma and purely upon seeking the message behind what it preaches then they MIGHT realise that their 'Bible' 'Koran' 'Torah' 'Star Wars Trilogy DVD Boxed Set', is simply a sety of symbolic tales, perhaps in places based on fact, but generally, STORIES which were taken by the religion and presented as the truth purely because they said something about what philosophers and wisemen/women (though lets be honest we men have rightly or wrongly have had the better run of it from a social point of view) considered to be the fundamental issues of the essence of being human. that they chose to write it in the context of whichever god they worshipped at the time means very little. As religions develop they adapt, they take on beliefs which become considered a good way of life. In this last two millenia Christianity has borrowed pagan festivals in order to have its own, and taken the general meaning of each, applying it to a Christian model. This begs the question. how many times has this happened before? How much therefore can we truly believe that 'God' made Adam out of clay, or 'Moses stepped down form a mountain with a big tabletcarved with rules'. He may have even told people that. there have ALWAYS been clever people willing to maniupulate the beleifs of others, not always to malicious intent. In my opinion, these people wanted to forge a society, they realised religion was the tool. Chances are what really happened... these religious types got together carved up a tablet... 'hmmm how are we gonna get this through to them ... hey Moses, you seem to be popular, I got an idea...' My opinion. what is the problem with the concept that 'God' created a universe with such a perfect system one that works like CLOCKWORK adapting, evolving to threats which could eradicate life from the planet, a continuous an unending cycle of life that. galaxies and solar systems revolving around each other spiralling to infinity, or certainly to a point incomprehensible to our minds at present. Why can't dogmatics accept that DINOSAURS ARE REAL therefore not EVERY word in the Bible can be true. to paraphrase Bill Hicks again... when confronting a fundamentalist christian on this he was told 'They were put there to test us' his answer. 'I think YOU were put here to test ME... do you believe God is screwing with us???'. Like people will get to the 'day of judgement' and a guy with a clipboard is gonna look at half of us and go... Dinosaurs eh? Sorry, that was a hoax. see ya in hell? What the fear is, IMHO is different for the beleivers than it is from those in power over these isntitutions. Those in power fear their 'flock' realising they may have been deceived on a few points, because then they might begin to question a lot more things about their religion. those who beleive these leaders, fear the possibility of having to live in a world where everything is NOT explained for them, where they can no longer trust the hand that guides them. therefore they defend it. But maybe evolution can be true and still not disprove their spiritual beleifs. From a certain point of view, maybe both stories are true. One is simply the metaphorical description of events before science can empirically explain the state of the universe. The other is the physically and empirically PROVEN state of the world to the point at which we can no longer safely say that we can find further proof, or undertsand what we do have.... at least for the time being. God MIGHT exist or he might not(I frankly don't care either way I still wouldn't worship him. I might try to emulate him) . one thing I cannot abide is the belief a book provides better proof of the origins of our earth than a bunch of bones that we can prove beyond reasonable doubt existed millions of years before this book says the world was created. Religion merely has to realise that all science can do, and is trying to do is to describe the physiical world. there are a few 'out there' scientists trying to bridge the gap, but until they actually manage to find whatever they are looking for, its highly unlikely the two disciplines will ever cross into each others territory. Science has more to fear from religion than the other way around. Point: there are only SIX colours in the rainbow. SIX not seven. But when the Vatican was presented with the findings of this splitting of light into its constituent colors, they were impressed. except they had one reservation. Light cannot have 6 colours because 6 is satans number. they sent poor old newton back saying. No you must be wrong. eventually, he divided violet into indigo and violet.. This was met with approval. because 7 is gods number. yes if you look veeeery carefully you might convince yourself you see a band, but in reality, you are just convincing yourself what you have always been taught is true. And people trust their spiritual well being into the hands of such charlatans?

Whats agnostic? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The philosophical standing that you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a 'God', only what is physical may be proved to be true. it comes from thwe word 'gnostic' from the greek 'gnosis' basically meaning the pursuit of things spiritual. a-gnostic just like a-theist a-moral. lacking any pursuit of spiritual things

*mumbles* unless you're catholic. then the meaning of life is to feel guilty

Now see what you did Nur? (w00t) Honestly. I can't say i think he changed a lot, and however it was worded, yes the standing on contraception is ridiculous, AND dangerous. And frankly the concept of a man who has never HAD sex giving advice and diktats to the masses about how they should conduct themselves in an adult realationship is patently absurd. Never knew about the CIA communism link, though it would not surprise me. I was brought up as a Catholic, I lapsed many years ago, but one of the things that stuck in my mind was when everyone used to take communion, my mum never went. I asked her one day and she told me that it was because she had been divorced before, and that meant she was not allowed to take part. Basically she is excommunicated. Then many years later when i was old enough she told me WHY she had been divorced. She''d married a wife beater. for years she put up with it like a good catholic wife. then she split. For leaving him she is supposedly cut off from her 'God' If he wanted to do ONE good thing in his life he could at least have overturned such a ridiculous and patently misogynistic standing of the catholic church. this is one of many reasons why I do not listen to men in pointy hats for spiritual advice. to paraphrase Bill Hicks 'There is a LIVING God in each and everyone of Us, who will talk DIRECTLY to you. No middle man required.' I realise this may go against the grain of many of your most heartfelt beleifs and for that I am sorry, but I cannot simply disregard the foolish adherence to dogma that is displayed by many western religions However. I don't wish it to seem i wanted him to suffer, frankly I think they spent far too much time keeping an old sick man from his long overdue rest. his last few weeks can't have been easy for him.

Anyway. i got work to do so if there's some insult in the meantime I don't reply to for a while least you know why.

What was happening between him and NurAb really didn't bother me, nor did I take it as entirely serious. what my peeve is is this adolescent obsession with 'n00b' bashing, in this case in response to a comment made by another purely on the basis of the number of posts previously made. i.e. You are 'newer' than me.. therefore 'n00b' therefore less relevant, hence you may be dismissed on that basis alone. Despite the fact the word n00b does not have a dictionary meaning there is a subtext, quite clear in its constant use as an insult. Hiding behind l337 speak and 'kewl' internet phrasology does not lessen the condescending meaning of the word. Frankly I think it shows a person is possessed of the lowest denomination of wit, incapable of makiing a proper defense of themself, and willing to resort to schoolground insults purely because they have been called on something they do not like. And if that's pinaccle of the quality of debating skills a person is capable of they belong in a plaground, rather than part of a debate, even a tongue in cheek one. the reply was uncalled for he could have defended himself in a dozen different ways, but instead, as is sadly so often the case, resorted to abusive and diminutive statements against another.

I sure hope that means you are finally going to shut your trap. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I rest my case (w00t)

(w00t)

Do You know him?

Ah sod it. What the hell The fact someone has posted less than you does not make them less relevant as a human being or as a member of this 'debate' the fact that YOU have posted over 1,900 times MORE does not prove you are more valid. In fact the content of most of your posts simply speaks volumes about the kind of obsessive smallminded abusive excuse for a person that you are. Though I was happy to sit back and watch you two duke it out, frankly that post simply showed you for your true nature. it must be indeed difficult for one possessed of such ideas of supereminence, and penury of vocabulary to grasp the reality that sometimes one can and must be the penultimate voice in discussion, and that indeed that voice may rather simply be asinine to others.

I am rubber you are glue

In answer to the topic. Yes.

Squirrelly? 'I Leave you to your Moosey Fate!'

There's a passage I got memorized Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." I been sayin' that **** for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ass. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a cold-blooded thing to say to a mnmnfckmr before you popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some **** this mornin' made me think twice. Now I'm thinkin': it could mean you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. lightsaber here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could be you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that **** ain't the truth. The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin, 'Jedi'. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd. Yeah Ok its not a one-liner

The line is translated variously, but the most common version goes: "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you." N. was very concerned with what happens when you yank away the moral perogative or religion. He believed that the Judeo-Christian notion of God had functioned as a cement binding society together, and that losing the cement might bring the whole building down. A particularly poignant quote: In other words, if we're going to abandon all conventions, what's left? Aren't we lost? Aren't we like little kids who've lost their parents? We're living this out in my home country right now. Science and rationalism make religion more and more of an option, a lifestyle choice, if you will. We don't need it to explain why it rains, why the sky is blue, why thunder sounds like a big boom. We now know that the thunder doesn't come from Thor striking his giant anvil in the sky. But this advance of rationalism and empiricism is coming with a price. People of faith feel like they're under constant assault, and they're striking back, trying to regain control of a society that feels increasingly hostile to them. How can they not feel under assault? Unless they can reconcile science and religion, they're going to be angry, angry, angry. For those who can accept nothing but a literal reading of their scripture, these must be very trying times. It's all a bit like the Taliban, trying to enforce a "pure" version of Islam on a country that doesn't much give a d@mn. Every day I see evidence of the Talibanization of my country. Films that mention evolution can't be shown in Red states because of a fear of fundamentalist backlash. Link. Some states are requiring that faith-based science be taught alongside real biology. Link. National leaders declare that "the jury is out" on evolution, which must be a hell of a surprise to virologists and drug companies. Link. None of this would be happening if science and rationalism hadn't taken such a strong hold in our society. Nietzsche saw this coming, saw that losing God would leave a God-shaped hole in peoples' lives. His answer was that we would evolve past the need for a supernatural daddy-figure, and so become "supermen." I suspect the reality will be much more complicated. (Yes, I know, it's obvious I've read way too much on this subject.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow. thanks. Might go and read up on him

Place your bets Ladies and Gents! next comeback at 2-1 'I find your lack of faith Disturbing' At 3-1 'Don't make me Destroy You' 5-1 'Your Overconfidence is Your Weakness' 11-2 'ROOOAWAROOOAW' and at 200-1 'These are not the droids you are looking for'

Am I wrong for making Mira run around in the dancing girl uniform and a doble ended lightsabre all the time?

'And THATS for picking me last in the football team at school!'

Either that or they've given up on the patch... I'm willing to wait for Kotor III to get closure, though. I sure do hope they make a Kotor III, too... Has anybody asked one of the mods to answer some of the questions here? Caus I had to tell a moderator about a certain thread a while back (it was over 10 pages, too...), and they apparently had no idea what was stagnating in the forums... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My opinion. Its a whole can of worms they do NOT want to open, and wisely so. not for a while at least.

Ok, *tucks everyone in and gets a storybook out* This is not the first time its happened Anyone remember Soul Reaver? My God. How unfinished that game was. and yes, despite the linear plotline, there was a class story there. but due to time constraints they dropped one of the heros antagonists, one that it mentioned THROUGHOUT the game, then FINISHED the game so abruptly you weren't sure you got it right. I assumed there must be another game mode I was so shocked. I couldn't beleive the game had ended like that. I was FURIOUS Eventually I sifted through the files on my PSX version and found an entire collection of sound files that suggested half the game had been ditched, and suddenly I was enlightened, my heart sank for I realised something. The video Gaming world was a business, and it didn't exist merely to appease me, the video gaming God. (yes that was I *nods sagely*) :D So for two years or whatever it took, whenever some unfortunet was around and I saw a reference to Soul Reaver, or it was mentioned. I frothed at the mouth. I wailed. I gnashed my teeth. and generally bored the arse off most of them till they patted me on the head and gave me a cup of tea. But you know what. part of me. the part that hopes. KNEW there would have to be a sequel.... the game sold well despite the cries of anguish among those who felt so cheated the Sequel came out... It wasn't perfect... but it fulfilled many of the missing plotlines, and the story just got BETTER... And when i got to the end?..... yes *horror of horrors* They left it open again! But this time... I was EXUBERANT This time they had planned it! Oh what a fantastic twist to the anger I head felt in my righteous breast. There would be MORE! :D MORE! Then the final came out... Again gameplaywise I had reservations, not because it was shoddy, but because it hadn't brought much new...... But you know what... the story.... the part that, basically sold the game in the first place to me, the part that kept most people coming back Just got BETTER. They even brought the missing brother from the first installment in! OH JOY (w00t) The sense of satisfaction when FINALLY Is et that last game aside, through all the troubles the trilogy had had, and finally ended it... a story i had dissected in depth, analysed, and breathed in an attempt to try and guess what they had planned... it was somethign else... But you know what... If the fans had buried it, at the original incarnation, flawed as it was... None of this would have been possible... MAYBE Just MAYBE! A little support for the devs COULD cause them to blossom and do GREAT things in the future, cos you know what everything about this project smacked of potential, some realised some not. So yes I say... buy the product. It costs very little money on the true scale of things, if you love a good rp game and you love star wars. and MAYBE in 3 years time you'll find you've been part of something wonderful.

'this is not the poll you are looking for'

Exactly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah man, Am on your psychedelic wavelength with this theory. :cool:

And yes I realise that means Chumbawumba got the word from ROTJ not the other way around "

Me too... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You could both be right. Oh yeah anyone else notice that the ewoks say 'Chumbawamba' when they first see C3PO? Which is great cos Chumbawamba are one of my favourite bands (well before the atrocity that was 'Tubthumping'))