Volourn

"Exactly JE is selling on Biowares merits, unfortunately it didnt manage to do as well as something that was licensed. " Your point? "KOTOR sold that in the first couple of months and at full price. That you would have to go back to a time where the market wasnt as large or active as it is now, well that just shows how you need to reach to make JE look succesful." KOTOR has sold between 2-3 million copies, and has done so on two systems and with one of the most powerful IPs in existence. The fact you feel the need to say JE is a financial failure by comparing it to KOTOR shows how much of a success JE is sinc eit has sold 600k+ copies in 6 months on ONE system and with a new IP. And, I thought success was all relative yet now you calim there's a set level of copies thatd etrmine what you think is a success or not. Does not compute. JE amde money. JE is a success. You ahve yet to give any proof outside of your opinion. Netx please.

"If your happy with Bioware selling 500,000 copies of games after chalking up 2 and 3 three million, then who cares ?" MY be happy is irrelavnt to JE's level of success. "If you ask anyone at Bioware would they rather JE sold half a million or 2 million no one is going to answer the former." If you ask anyone at Sqaure if they woudl rather have the FF titles sell 88 mil copies or 150 mil copies no one is gonna answer the former. " No it's pretty clear to anyone who isnt a fanboy that JE did not have the same success as Biowares lisenced titles. Believing dosnt even enter into the equation." As you put it, it's all relative. Anyoen who believes that JE needed to sell as much as KOTOR, BG, or NWN to be a success is living in a fantasy land. JE is not a prexisting IP. Therefore, there ar eno licensing fees, no 3rd party (just the publisher) to worry about about, etc. etc. BG1 has sold about 2.5 mil copies total. That includes the expansion. That is also over a 7-8 year period. JE has sold 600k copies in about 6-7 months. There is no comparison there. Period. Bototm line is JE is a success, And, you have yet to prove otherwise.

I could do a lot of things better. But, then I wouldn't be me. :D My bottom line point is while the graphics may new; the overall engine isn't (though it's all been updated). Even with the graphics - while they are better and not even tileset (for the outdoor areas anyways); there is still something NWNish aout them. But, in the good way.

In essence, despite all the signs suggesting that JE was a success you will continue to claim otherwise. JE is a finanical success. All the evidence points in that direction yet you believe otherwise. Sounds like you *need* to believe it was a failure as to justify your dislike for BIO. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! P.S. You ahve yet to give one piece of evdience to support your theory hence it is a very poor theory to put your entire heart and soul into.

JE made money. It's not a failure. Game over. A failure is a game that isn't even successfule nough to warrant a sequel espicially in these days of sequelitis. Seems to me that JE2 is coming, and that would not be the case if JE failed. BIO, and MS have said quite pointedly that they are happy with JE's success in every way. You lose. And, continually try to imply that a game needs to sell as much as FF to be considered a success is silly. Espicially when in the same sentence you make the claim that success is relative.

"It was bargain bin within a month and budget within six. Hardly call that a success could you." Being sold for $40-$50 is not bargain bin. "Since Bioware dosnt have any other known IP's it's not a suprise that there could be a JE 2 even though it's not a particularly "hot" property." Nonsense. If JE was truly a financial failure as you claimed, MS would have dropped it like a hot potatoe. Like the game or not; it was a financial success. That's a fact.

"You just called a developer a liar." I didn't accuse anyone of lying. Having a different view on thinsg doens't make the other person a liar. And, I'm the one oftena ccused of seeing things in black and white. " That's been reported too! See you in court! " Cool. However, your sin is obvious. Stuipid I may be or not; but being stupid is not against the forum rules. Flaming is.

"You lose by stupidity" You lose by reportation for flaming. "Volourn, what do you know about Electron, or about graphics programming in general, that leads you to believe that Anthony and Brian are lying? Because really, that's what you're doing; you're calling them liars." I'm not going to argue with you on this. I'm, however, gonna point out that I'm not calling them liars. It's just my definition of "new engine" is obviously different than theirs is all. From what i've seen and heard, the Aurora has been updated with better graphics (no doubt that about this); but the core Aurora is still what is powering the game just with changes. It's kinda of the same situation as with KOTOR. BIO updated it; gave it a new name, and called it a brand new engine. And, there's a lot more differences in KOTOR's engine comapred to NWN's than, say, NWN vs. NWN2. At best, imo, one could say that that the grpahics engine is vastly updated that I'd be willing to say it has a new graphics engine. But, that's all.

For a guy who pretty much bashed JE and called it a fianncial failure (despite it selling 600k+ copies, making money, high reviews both player and professional, and winning awards); you seem awful quick in your willingness to spend more money on the game franchise. Hahahaha.

"It's pretty interesting how Anthony Davis can tell you flat out that zero of Aurora's rendering code still exists in Electron and you maintain that it's an update. In physical terms, that would be the equivalent of removing an engine from a car, putting a new one from a different manufacturer in, and saying it's an updated engine instead of a new one." I've been told flat out that the world is flat. I'm not going accept that is fact either. Sorry. Anyways, I'm not going argue with a dev over this. Last thing i want is to be banned for arguing with a dev on their boards about their game. You win by default.

Huh? Won't argue too much about DS; but MW's graphics are horrible. Brown poo on my screen does not equal good graphics. period. MW had horrid graphics. I darn near puked. And, 2 year sor so for NWN2 isn't bad since they didn't start the graphics from scratch. That's a myth. Just becuase you update the graphics engine, slap a new name on it; doesn't make it a brand new engine. It makes it an updated engine. BIG difference. Also, as has been noted by Feargus himself, NWN2's devlopment time is about in line with BG2. And, I doubt too many people will try to make a lame argument that BG2 was 'rushed'.

"PS: and seak proffessional help for your hatred of those older then you No reason for your envy really!" As opposed to the older genrations hating on the young 'uns. Blaming all the ills of the world on the youth when it's mostly simply jealousy that the young aren't crippled and ain't gonna die within 10 years. Hehehe. I love old folks. " Favorite oldtimer quote: "In the good 'ol days..." They always seem toleave out the force amrriages of barely 10 year girls, the slaughter of millions of Jews, the slaughter of Natives, and the list of past atrocities go on. P.S. BIO is #1!!!

Um... That's not the ending. That's the part where they show the different things that happen hence why HOTU has a million billion trillion endings. (w00t)

Yeah. Sorry. i lied again. It has 1 trillion endings. That mistake won't happen again.

"I must be the only man in the world who actually liked the Original Campaign. Yes, you heard right. I liked it and found it very enjoyable except for the lizardpeople thing.." Huh? Am I invisisble? I liked the lizardfolk thing. It sure beats the medusa thing. "No." Yes. Ok no. It has 1 billion different endings. My bad. Sorry.

Weird. Hotu has like 1 million different endings. Weird.

And? Oh said otherwise? How does that change anything I or others posted? Hmm... P.S. I did not bash BIO. I jsut gave an opinion on the module. Not the company.

"Witches Wake is good. Try that." Why? It is better to play the original codenamed Planescape: Torment. There are many worthwhile modules, and persistent worlds worth trying out that aren't about ripping off older games and pretending otherwise. At least mods called 'Pools of Radiance' or 'Temple of Elemental Evil' don't pretend to be anything but recreations of old modules. BIO's other premium modules (oher than the Shark Bait tm one since I haven't played it) are all much worthier of playing since they are original creations.

"They were a good company otherwise people" Not good enough for enough people it seems.

No, no, no. He didn't say JE had that button. He's saying that JE2 should have that button. That's his reccomendation.

UPDATE FROM LAST POST: NWN is still where it is at!!!

Damn straight. Not bad for a game that was a failure. Hahahahahahaha!!! P.S. I'm not saying you said it was a failure; but the usual anti BIo suspects tried to.

"Ya know what I like about Volourn. Sarcasm bounces off his head like a rubber ball" Ya know what I like about Darque. She actually believes she knows what sarcasm is. R00fles! (w00t)

"And some say the PC isn't dying as a gaming outlet" Yeah. OMG! JE series is on x-box so that means the PC is dying and BIo is selling out! Let's all conviently forget DA.... R00fles! Anyways, more seriously, this doens't 100% confirm JE2. Though; it pretty much says it without saying it. So, D0uBLE R00fles!

1. Bioware 2. EA 3. Squaresoft 4. BIS 5. THQ Runner Up: Obsidian; but they need to make more than one game. NWN2 will likely knock THQ out. Runner Up: I know I do a lot of badmouthing of them; but like Hades and BIO; it's only because I cared too damn much. :D