Volourn

"Nor if BIO knew before what a failure JE would become..." Microsoft, the publisher of JE, disagrees with your false assessment. "Being friends with an other dev doesn't help you with the publishers." Sur eit does. You don't think past ties with Bioware helped Obsidian land NWN2 and KOTOR2? I hope not as that would be a joke. It also helped that the Obsidian founders are't newbies and know their way away around the industry.

"Players aren't playing for free you know; players loyalty is with the team that will pay them the most in most situations" That isn't loyalty. You can't buy loyalty. Loyalty is earned and is never bought or else it stops being loyalty. That's why i laugh when fans claim that players owe them or their favorite team loyalty just ebcause they're paid x dollars. The only thing they owe their bosses (the team not the silly fans) is their best work possible. In Thornton's case (as well as Jagr) they're paid to produce points so if they don't get points they didn't succeed. of course, they're also paid to helpthe team win so that's also important. Let me put it this way: If next season the Ranmgers win all 82 games +16 games in play-offs the team is a success right. Now, let's say Jagr gets ZERO points in those gamnes... do you think he'd be rewarded for the team's success or will he let go for not performing? He'd be let of course 'cause it would mean others were the reason for the Rangers' success. P.S. the above is an extreme exmaple. Don't worry. It won't happen. :D

"BioWare has more power than Oblivion" That's Obsidian's problem. Besides, Obsidian has enough 'power' to get the rights to develop sequels to two multi million selling games. They cna't be weak. They even have two other games lined up. Heck, that's 4 games total meaning even if they make just those they're already more successful than Troika was. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if KOTOR2 itself outsold all of Troika's games or close to it. LOL Besdies, I think some people are underestimating Obsidian's standing in the gaming world. It's not they'r e abunch of rookies ala when BIO started out. They have a long history which means contacts (as evdienced with them getting both KOTOR2 and NWN2 prettty much as soon as they started). And, i think this 'Obsidian is weak' line is just an exuse by Obsidian fanboys to make exuses for when Obsidian does soemthing they dislike. Obsdiian makes good chocies, and they make bad choices. Just like BIO, or any other company. Let's let them take responsibilty (as they have depsite their fanboys) so we don't have another Troika on our hands.

"If you werent such an obvious alt, Id recommend you locate the nearest sharp object you can find and then jab that into your eye as hard as you can" Actually, in my view, if it is just an alt, that's even MORE reason to do as you suggest.

"Those don't count as those are PC games ported to console." Um. No. KOTOR series isn't a port. It was made with both in mind; but came out on x-box first. What are you talking about Willis, and why mkae things up? "Dragon Quest 8 has a really strong story, but it also has a fantastic gameworld that gives you the illusion that you're free to do anything." DQ8 is horrible. I played a couple of hours, and I was bored out of my mind. One of the worst Japanese RPGs ever, and it spits on the face of the great Dragon Warrior series. "hotu were not gonna be playable mp..." HOTU is mp. I know this as a fact as I've played it mp. "The CEP alone had more than a million downloads." Meh. proves nothing. I've downloaded CEP myself at least 3 times for various reason (computer reboot or crash for example)> "I played Fallout 1 for 60 hours on my first play through. I did a lot of exploring." How the heck did you do that? You must have done random fights then. There's simply not much to explore in the world. "That is assuming Atari lets them patch it." They seem to have no problem 'letting' BIO patch NWN.

"The shortness of game trend is the fault of consoles. Made ideally for kids with low attention spans, who have no desire to take all kinds of quests, or explore the story. Hey lets just make it hack n slash." That's nonsense. Consoles have been around for nearly 2 decades (if not longer cna't rmeemebr that far back), and just now they're effecting game lengths for PC games. On top of that, most game have always been around the 20-30 hours mark. This isn't new at all. "Because I know that I tend to get a handle of games faster and play the game efficiently." Hello, Mr. Werewolf. "It took me 20 to 25 hours to beat IWD 2." I didn't finish it; but I wass around 25 hours or so when I stopped. "It took me 12 hours to beat BGDA." It took me 9 hours. Ha, you suck! "It took me 28 hours to beat KotOR 2." Took about 38 hours for me. You got me there since we all know it's a race to the finish line!!!

"BG mods are very good." No. They're horrid.

"You play fan made mods for NWN?? You make mods, thus being a fan made mod, for NWN?" Yes. But, uniformly, NWN mods are much much better than any IE mod I ever tried. As for my mod, I think it is/will be awesome when it's done. The testers depsite some obvious problems, liked what little they saw of it. Ask Meta about a particular golem for example. "You can beat BG1 pretty quickly if you just go to the mines, straight to the city, the Iron Throne HQ etc." yeah; but chances of doing that your first time through is nil. Just like one cna finish FO (or even FO2) in about an hour if you know exactly what to do.

"Would it have sold as well if it didn't have Dungeons and Dragons in the title?" "We all know POR2 and TOEE sold millions." R00fles! "The BG games have many mods, which keeps that series interesting." User made mods for the IE games is what made me stop playing them. Dark Side of the Coast is a prime example of utter crap that makes me puke. "That worked for Troika" LOL Three strikes; yer out. "Did either of those games have multiplayer, a mod toolset or excellent support?" As Grom points out, all that extra stuff means nothing to the typical NWN purchaser. They don't touch them. At all.

30-40 times... WOWSERS! BG, FO, and any other game starts boring me the 3rd time through... WOWSERS! After 30-40 times through I'd go mad (well.. even madder)... WOWSERS! It's probably why I like NWN so much. I cna still play the game and actually get different content from it. Much like pnp.

GD, I should point out that for me personally, mods/PW/toolset (even though I haven't yet released anything damn... trying though) it has added lots of playing time. And, if it wasn't for that stuff, NWN wouldn't be my favorite game (let alone top ten); but bottom line it would still be popular and still sold.

"Play it once to completion that throw it away." Not if you are Hades, and played it 3+ times!!!

Dark Raven: Hmm.. Finally.. I smell some sarcasm coming from you. " "Take that away and where would NWN be?" Still a multi million selling game with 2 expansions and a sequel on the way. That's where.

You'd be wrong, of course. Atari had no problem with the NWN1 OC being 40-60 hours (some finishe dit as early as 30 hours or as mnuch as 100 yeah 100 hours)... So, why are they supposedly demanding 20 hours for NWN2? Iyt's not like they arne't giving Obsidian time to work on the game - over 2 years, actually, and about the same length it took to make bg2. And, way more time than BIO spent on the NWN1 OC...

"As I posted earlier, that is really all I (and a hell of a lot of others) care about for NWN2." The 'a lot' you speak of is a minority. Just deal with that fact. btw, I'm a part of the minority now. I wasn't when NWN1 came out; but NWN made a believer out of me. The bottom line is there wouldn't have been expansions to get your titlesets and stuff (or this sequel) if it wasn't for people buying NWN1 for its OC and enjoying it enough to buy the expansions as well.

Slow... Writing dialogue is a slow process for me. Not to mention the constant proofreading, and adding options. Word count is now sitting at 1k...... Everything else but a handfulof scripts and editting spells (espicially summons are done). Areas are laid out, npcs/monsters are in game, etc., etc. But dialogue... uh.. takes forever....

NWN (modding slowly), MVP Baseball 2005, and.... Everquest 2.... ( )

"They

Mark Smith has two goals because he was good enough to score two goals. Stop giving others' credit for HIS success. "I'd rather see the Sharks win." Well, of course. You are more loyal to the team than you are the to the player hence why I believe players shouldn't have loyalty for those who aren't loyal to them.

"Not for it's OC, as Hurlshot would have us all believe" Yes, for the OC. Most people who bought NWN and its expansions did so for the OCs. This is a fact. This is also why Obsidian has said they're focusing more on the SP than on MP this time around (not to mention, that the MP/tooselt/dm client stuff work was pretty much done anyways). NWN's popularity is driven by the OC; not by MP contrary to what boardies claim.

"Hades is smart for having convictions and trying to stand by them" The problem is that he doesn't stand by them. After NWN, he claimed he would never buy another BIO game. Guess what? That was balony as he went out and bought an x-box just to play JE. Heck, he bashes NWN non stop yet he's played the OC 3+ times. That's more times than me! LOLOLOLLIPOP He also claimed he'd never buy a Troika game after TOEE then went out and bought BL. The list goes on. Anyway, as far as the actual topic goes, EA is awesome. They make the best sports games ever (barring a few stinkersala the NBA franchise of the past few years and NHL 2006). As for this jab at a RPG, we shall see...

Thornton's job is to get points. If he doens't get points he's a failure, imo. He's in the same boat as Jagr in that regard.

"Who's "we"? Most people say it sucks." You are as bad as him with his 'we'. Who is 'most' people? Whether you like it or not, NWN is/was very popular. If it wasn't we wouldn't be having this thread whining about NWN2. As for how many levels in hours.. 1 in 2 hours, while poor in pnp si just fine in a SP CRPG. Of course, they should be careful if they are possibly planning an expansion and wnat to continue that particluar storyline with the same character. Hmmm... Of course, I remember that really early in development it was said we could reach level 12-15ish... of cours,e at that time the OC was scheduled for 40-60 hours. LOL

Grats Oil fans! And, look at that. SJ wins with Cheechoo getting 3 points and Thornton getting 0 points. Yeah, Cheechoo really relies on Thornton to get the job done.

Well.. with Jagr now possibly hurt... this series may not go even 5 games... Guess I should be happy that the Rangers simply made the play offs after missing 7 years; but I'm not...