Volourn

"But when a player routinely takes a team out of its gameplan by demanding the ball" Oh, please. Any player worth their salt is gonna wnat the ball. It's even ahrder for a reciever since whether or not they get the ball really has to do with what the QB decides. I think a receiver who doens't wnat the ball thrown to him is not a good receiver in the first place. "generally disrupting the team chemistry it becomes very difficult to win as it has for Dallas in resent weeks." WHAT? Are you saying it's Owen's fault that the Cowboy's are struggling lately? give me a break. The Cowboys ar elosing; not because of any nonsenical distractions (oither than the spit incident he's been rather calm lately, btw); because Romo has stopped being perfect and the defense has been really horrible.When your defense is giving up about 30 points on average; you simply aren't gonna win much in the NFL. "Remember when the Eagles went to the Superbowl they won ever game while T.O. was out with an injury, they only lost after he made it back." They lost ebcause of the selfishness of the QB who was sick,a nd demanded to keep playing even though he was not doing so well after a good first half. That's what led to T.O. being so upset. btw, He is not the only one who called McNabb on that selfishness; but so did a number of other Philly players. It should be pointed out that T.O. was pratically a model citizen during his firsts eason in Philly. He even came back from a major injury, risked damaging it more, and played pretty darn well in the SB. He was simply frustrated because he felt that all his hard work was wasted because of another player's SELFISHNESS. Yet, somehow it's his fault things went cablooee? I think the problem is that Philly has its mouth on a part of McNabb's anatomy that he seems immune to any criticism hence when even if Garcia manages to win Philly a SB; Garcia is gonna be thrown in the garbage and the choking job will be given back to McNabb. "Don't be surprised this year when Parcells says that its either T.O. or him and its T.O.'s butt that gets kicked out the door." Meh. I doubt Parcells is sweating the T.O. It's the media, once again, trying to stir the pot when there is no controversy. To me, T.O. is definitely a top 3 reciever. Cool beans either way. P.S. Drabek and Laozi are cool. :cool:

"The top recievers go something like this: Chad Johnson Torry Holt Steve Smith Marvin Harrison Reggie Wayne *Roy Williams *Andre Johnson (*Up and comers)" It's one thing to argue that T.O. isn't the *best* receiver as a case cna eaisly be made for others to fill the top spot. But, to argue he's not one of the best? Come on, now, that's just silly. Personal feelings for T.O.'s shenanagins aside, it should be hard to argue his skill as a reciever. Afterall, there must be a reaosn why teams continue to pursue him despite the baggage he brings. Surely can't be because of his middling skillz. "What offense a player is in largely determines how good they are." I don't think you mean thing. I think the offense dtermines how effective you cna be; but it doens't determine how *good* you actually are. There's a subtle difference between the two. "Since you wanted the facts, here they are, spin 'em however you like:" Thanks for the numbers. However, I wasn't really disputing his drops. I was disputing what are called drops. I've seen times where T.O. had a defender all ove rhim, and the ball bounced off his hands as he was fighting for it. I don't really count those as drops. drops, to me, are throws that you should catch as in they are easy and you made a mistake in not catching it. Think of it as 'errors by receivers'. If you think Glenn has no ego; you are delusional. btw, Having an ego doesn't mean you aren't a good guy. Of course, you guys ar ealso ignoring his hand injury which no doubt effects the ability to catch. even with that, he leads the league in TDs, and is up ther ein catches, yards, and what not. And, no doubt by his mere prescense he makes the team better. Afterall, if T.O. wasn't on the team, Glenn would not be doing as good (though Glenn is good in his own right as well) as he has since it's T.O. who usually draws the double coverage.

"The thing I hate about Owens isn't even his mouth... it's that he sulks so damn much! He acts like a spoiled child. Even after he was gifted that TD against the Saints, he went back to the bench and sat there looking petulant." It's true. But, then again, pretty much allr ecievers do this when they don't get the ball. Heck, The Giants' Barber did this earlier in a game when he had gotten only 13 carries, and whined to press... yet, not that along ago in this very threa dpeople were referring to him as an all around nice guy. That's hypociritcal. "Hell, he went so far as to say one of his teammates must be "snitching" on him. He wasn't upset about being late to practice or sleeping during team meetings. It's that someone called him on it." Praactice means crap as long as he shows up for games. Which he does. And, yeah, people T.O. when he attacks teammates in the press yet it's bno biggy when someone blabs about him in the media? Whatever. I really wish people would stop worrying about practice. The players earn their money on the field. "He's a great receiver, yeah, but that doesn't mean he's good for the team. He's a sideshow, and an attention whore. " LOL Attention whore. NEWSFLASH: All prime athletes are attention whores. You don't get that great at sports without having an ego. Period. And, he is a good for the team. heck, last year, the Eagles were .500 until they kicked T.O. off the team THEN they went completely downhill. Coincidence? I think not. "As for the drops, I think I he's got a broken or dislocated ring finger. That might account for why he's missed so many passes that have hit him square in the hands this year." Come on, now. Everyone knows his dislocated finger is just another cry for attention by T.O. He probably broke it himself to have an exuse just to screw up the team. "It's more the constant distractions. His "over dose" incident, the spiting, the tour-de-france cycling when he was "hurt", etc. And he sure had some kind words for Bledsoe, especially when he got yanked. Let's not forget his own teammates are currently telling him to shut up in the press." Oh please. The over dose incident was ana ccddient that the stupid media used to bahs him some more. And, no, it doidn't effect the team. He didn't distratc the team. I know you use quotations 'cause probably you insinuating that it was an attempted suicide. That's just dumb. The spitting was wrong even if the other guy deserved it. No doubt about it. Still not a distraction. Woopity do dah. He went cycling. WAAA! Why whine about that? Talk about crying over spilled milk. Oh, please. His biggest complaint was he wnated Bledsoe to pass the ball, and that he felt Romo could do better. And, consideirng the fact that nearly everyone in the medai, the team, and here (not me) kept stating over and over again that a QB change should be amde... you somehow make that T.O.'s fault? Give me a friggin' break. And, his own teammates should take their own advice, and shut up in the press. Look in the mirror before you judge others. "Garcia is what, a 3 time pro bowl quarterback? There not replacing McNabb with Joe Blow or something." First off, I personally like Garcia. He's awesome. That said, people trahsed Gracia. They said he was washed up, overrated, and crap. Hell, his teams' own fans cheered when he nearly got crippled and booed when he got back up. Nobody expected the Eagles to do good without McNabb. Why do you think Garcia agreed to sign with Philly as a backup? It's because nobody else really wanted him. Bottom line, her,e is T.O. is an awesome reciever. And, this season, he has not relaly been a distratcion to the team except when the media a susual overblown things. How many times has the Dallas coach told the media that he didn't wnat to talk about non football T.O. related stuff? See.. That's a sure sign that the media wants to attack Ownes instead of actually reporting on the game. The media created T.O. hoopla. There are tons of guys who are 100% worse than T.O. yet nothing on them. I mean... how 'bout the what/ 10 Cinnci polayers who ar ein toruble with the law? or the idiot wqho kicked the player pn the ground? One week (at most) was spent on it then the story was DEAD. People still are whining about the spitting incident; though. *shrug* I think nit's funny you haven't mentioned how many easy passe she's dropped. I even tried to check the NFL website; but no dice. They don't seem to keep track of that stat. I do know he's dropped his share; but I've seen quite a few of those 'credited' drops; and at leats half ar eones where he has like a guy or two draped all over him or it was a very ahrd catch to begin with. To me, a drop is when an easily catchable ball is dropped. Not a missed out miracle catch. LOL

Define 'plenty'. And, he hasn't been a cancer on the Cowboys. He hans't bashed either QB even when they struggled. His only complaint has been pass the ball to him which is well known that ALL receivers wnat the ball thrown to them all the time. LOL Just like any good RB wnats the ball handed off to them. That's the nature of the beast. The spitting incident was wrong; but that's surely not 'cancerous'. The REAL cancer in Philly was/is McNabb. Most overrated *yet* talented QB EVER. He is THE reason why the Eagles lost the SB,a nd multiple Eagles said so not just T.O. LOL LONBG LIVE T.O.! DOWN WITH MCNABB!!!

Trying to be cute doesn't change the fact that T.O. is the best receiver in the game. I don't care if he gets his share of drops. Big woop epsicially since I've watched a lot of Cowboy games this year and some of those 'drops' he was 'credited' for weren't drops; but more like 'no chance catches'.

TO is awesome. Best. reciever. in. the. game. The Eagles were stupid to get rid of him. Choosing McNabb the Cripple over T.O. the Man was dumb. Espicially since Philly has shown they are better with Garcia (lol, another QB that T.O. picked on; but in Garcia's case, T.O. was wrong; He was absolutely correct about whiny momma's boy McNabb though). It's funny though that other than bugging to get the ball thrown to him more this season; T.O. hasn't complained about EITHER QB he's played with this season. *shrug* On the field, T.O. is one of the most hard working, prfoessional athletes in thw world. He's done wone thing I dissaprove of, and that was the spiiting incident from a few weeks ago, and chances are the guy probably asked for it.

"Why doesn't anyone like Nedved?" I do. Which probably explains whye evryone here hates him. "That's the bitter Oiler fan in me lashing out at Nedved for bailing on us last time around." Wrong. the Oilers, and their fans bailed on him. They have a history of doing so. Why is it 99.9% of the time the player who gets the blame when the employer-employee relationship goes bad? That's silly talk. P.S. Rangers win their second straight! MUAHAHAHAHA!!!

Best to complain both. It's both their product, and both their responsibility. That said, KOTOR2 (last time I played which the first and only time) was rather stable for me including the ending. It had its share of weaknesses though; but still a fun game. Both LA, and Obsidian should be proud in delivering a quality, award winning, best seller to us fans! Good job! :joy:

"And the Rangers have what, one win in their last five?" Is that the best you got? The Ranger ssuck so it's ok for the Oilers to suck too? L0L

"And when was that last time that Edmonton won a game?" Since Pronger was an Oiler. Ok, ok. I kid, I kid. :D :D :D :crazy: :crazy:

There are ties in football. There were ties in hockey until a few years ago. I believe soccer in NA has ties as well.

Even though it pains me in some ways, I have a funny feeling the Giants will manage to sneak past Philly and then get blown out in 2nd round. Indy over KC - KS will crush Indy's run defense; but Manning will refuse to lose in the first round. Dallas over Seattle - minor upset; but only if Romo actually passes to the best reciever in the league known as T.O. NE over NYJ - NE has too much play off experience to lose in the first round this time. NYG over Philly - Surprise pick; but Philly will have a bad game finally. This will likely svae that idiot's job to my shagrine. Chicago over NYG- To cap a disasterful year for me, Grossman outclasses Eli just so K can have the last laugh. L0LLERZ! Dallas over NO - Again, T.O. will beat Brees if his QB actually passes to him when it matters. SD over NE - NE's time has passed. SD with their RB will just crush 'em. Indy over BAL - Baltimore is a very good team. pretty much underrates despite their work; but I think Manning will find a way to beat a great defensive team. Dallas over Chicago - Chicago has the defense; but Romo + T.O pretty much is too much for Grossman to handle. SD over Indy - I hope for Indy to win because Manning deserves a SB; but quite frnakly; their rund efense just plain sucks and that simply spells doom against the top running back. SD over Dallas - Again, I'd want T.O. to win just so all his whiny detratcors can cry some more; but sadly; SD is simply the better team. So... The team with the best record will win the SB.... even though, I don't care for them much...

I used to read them a lot in school. Good fun.

"Yes, mommy." You've been nice in this thread. I think she was referring to my buddy Alanshu and myself. :D "Majority." Nope. The facts don't bare that out. Sorry. the truth often hurts. "Lets just stick to playing what is fun." Eh? I cna't speak for Alanshu; but I do find this *fun*. R00fles!

Your point? :crazy: If you cna't see a connection between your line about BL and JE as well as your silliness in calling BIO and MS liars than so be it.

Hey, I'd buy a sequel despite my complaints. I did enjoy BL, overall. Espicially B00BIES!!! Of course, we're likely in the minority which is why a sequel is not being made.

"Not really. You just suddenly brought it back up. I made no comment about Jade Empire, but you felt it prudent to bring it up again. I suspect you'll continue to do so, regardless of whether or not other people respond to you" If you can't see the connection between what you wrote about Troika/Activision's possible expecations with BL along with how hypocritical of you to try to whitewash BIO/MS's expecations for JE then you ar ehaving a ahrd time connecting dots. You wrote, IIRC, the following: "True. If Troika/Activision only expected 50k sales (unlikely) with Bloodlines, then you could easily argue it was a success." Clear cut connection. Just because you didn't write JE in flashy colours doesn't mena there is no connection. Also, if you ntoiced, I hadn't brough tup JE since like page 12. I will costantly use it whenever it is RELEVANT to what I am replying to. "Why do you care so much?" Why do you, Grom, and others care so much? It seems you despertaely need to prove that JE was a failure. That must expalin why that thread wa sso long and you still are going on about how much a fialure it is yet depsite your BL 'expecations' remark. *shrug* Raven: R00fles! Sand: Sand wins.

Not until you guys either bring prove that MS and BIO are lying, admit you are wrong, or let the issue die. Afterall, it takes more than one to keep topics going. R00fles!

"True. If Troika/Activision only expected 50k sales (unlikely) with Bloodlines, then you could easily argue it was a success." Yup. It's too bad certain people cliam that JE was a failure despite both MS and BIO stating otherwise. You'd think they'd know how many copies they figured they'd sell. R00fles! "must have many personalities, more than hades! first yo say a game is good, later on you say it not so good. make up ur mind buddy." My mind hans't changed. At all. My opinion has been rather consistent. The game has changed. R00fles! "As difficult as it might be to read, Volo, I haven't read one post in your NwN2 topic." Rumours, myths, and innuendo!!!

"must admit I have trouble keeping up with your mood swings, Volo." Why? How is it confusing? My feelings about KOTOR2 has NEVER changed; and my reasons for my 'change of heart' in regards to NWN2 should be quite clear by now. R00fles! And, yeah, both KOTOR2 and NWN2 are successes sales wise. That isn't shocking. Sequels to already successful games tend to do that. D0uble R00fles!

"I don't think it's so easy to find another developer who can create atmosphere as good as VtM:B, for example - that really could have been as big a hit as Kotor. So it's a shame that Atari couldn't knuckle down and do what needed to be done to help Troika release their game in good condition - that would have been the win-win scenario." Atari had nothing to do with BL, and the Troika game they did published lacked any worthwhile atmosphere. BL, on the other hand, was a good game that should have been rgeta if it wasn't for crappy combat and bugs up the wazoo. Don't forget that Atyari gave Troika TWO extensions, and Troika played tiddlywinks (or didn't) depending on who you ask with BL. As for Obsidian. i have compalints about KOTOR2; but overlal it was a good game. About equal with the original. With NWN2, I had a favorable first impression; but for me perosnally now; the mere mention of NWN2 disgusts me.

"I'm just saying that if you get into bed with a Creative outfit you need to be willing to put up with a certain degree of weirdnesss as teh price of their excellence." No, you don't. Not when you are a publsiher who can just find an equally talented developer house who can make a quality game that won't turn off gamers including the actual intended target. If, as TOEE (and POR2 too) proved... if you can't sell a turn based D&D game based on popular modules/old games to its actual fanbases then perhaps the problem is the game's quality; not the customer base or the publisher. not counting the first couple of weeks/firts month where the stupid D&D fanboys like myself who pretty much buy the majority of D&D games no matter what. Espicially since Atari has actually published successful D&D games. Go figure. *shrug*

RANGERS WIN! RANGERS WIN! RANGERS WIN!

Way to go Tiki! Do niothing for weeks on end, and then actually try for one game so people will remember you as a 'hero'. Where was this effort previously? Damn. Part of me still hopes Coughlin gets canned. Worst. coach. ever. Pisses off of his player sdue to HORRIBLE coaching than uses a scapegoat, and pushes a greta player into retirement. HAHAHA! He probably played Tiki to actually play with some drive just so he could look like a 'genius' for making the coaching change. NEWSFLASH: This game had nothing to do with any coaching chnage. It ahd to do with Barber basically kickin' butt. Gah.

Someone should look in the mirror.