Volourn

"Combat system? AP > KOTOR2" DRAW "Brokenness? KOTOR2 > AP" DRAW "Bugs? KOTOR2 > AP" DRAW "Story AP > KOTOR2" KOTOR2 "Responsiveness to player actions AP > KOTOR2" KOTOR2 "Meaningful choices AP > KOTOR2" KOTOR2

"If you're so disdainful of the game, why're you hanging out in forums dedicated to it?" Because I like Obsidian, and I don't want them to make the same mistakes with their next game. And, last thing they need is to read the praise of their fanboys about how perfect AP is, and go on their merry way thinking AP failed because of everybody who hates it being stupid. This is the second straight SOZZY game Obsidian has made. they need to make more games like NWN2 OC/MOTB and KOTOR2 *not* SOZ and AP. Good news: DS3 should be a great game. Bad news: FO: LV will be a sozzy game. (and, yes, I won't be buying this one b/c I actually beleived AP would be a fun game but I KNOW LV will suck).

"Lol, you were able to tell by just playing Saudi Arabia? R00fles once more..." I played enoguh and read enough to know the game sucks. Deal with it. AP will not be a cult classic. BL is awesome despite the horrible combat. AP has nothing go for it - says a lot whn AP's combat is the best part of the game. LMAO "What's the official term then, badly designed? Unpolished? Flawed? Gameplay challenged?" SOZZY "Of course it will probably need several years before it makes a difference." Companies don't care much about budgets buys 2 years down the road. They care about sales within the first month or so. I just hope DS is as good as I think it'll be, and will wash the horrible AP taste out. AP is ES series bad.

Something they share in common with AP, then. And, no, not all games do that.

"BGs and Icewind Dale were second only to Planescape: Torment." BIO didn't make PST or IWD so irrelevant to the conversation. And, while the BG series story was fine, and I enjoyed it.. it's no better than DA or the MEs.

"You'll need a bigger budget to have prettier graphics." And, to support those 100+ employees. "the contextual role-playing/choice and consequences are not something other companies can do" Nonsense. Plenty of games do this. It's not new, original, or special to Obsidian.

"Think back to before ME, BW was associated with top notch storytelling. That was their selling point, what drew their fans was the uniqueness and novelty of every game. Now ME,ME2 and DA have failed to bring this to the table." ME series, and DA's stories are just as good as the BGs. BIO has done nothing but improved in their game making ability since they started and its shown by their continued to success. Afterall, if they had gotten worse, they would have died already.

"what the hell, man? people like monte carlo are the ones that kept Bio alive all these years," WRONG. BIO kept BIO live all these years by making games people want to play. BIO deserves ALL the credit for their success (and any blame for their failures). People like Monte (and myself) bought BIO games because we thought we'd enjoy them not just because. BIO owes us crap.

No, but also don't pretend that BIO should be making DA2 strictly to you want. Heck, if I was the one making DA and not BIO, my version of DA would have been different in so many ways. But, alas, BIo does not make games for Volourn as they do not give a crap about volourn. They make games for ALL potential customers. I'm irrelevant. When you claim that 'DA brand isn't good enough to launch soemthing' when the game has been successful you come off as simply being silly and arrogant and foolish to think the brand is all for Monte Carlo when it isn't. Doesn't matter if you liked DA1 and are dissapointed in the direction that DA2 is going. It means nothing. You don't speak for others so to claim that 'DA brand isn't good enough' in this context is silly.

"However, the Ferelden brand ain't that good to launch a different, Mass Effect type game off the back of it." In your opinion, and an individual's opinion is unimportant here. All that matters is what BIo thinks the majority of their audience would prefer. "Too easy." BIO adapts to what the audience wants not one a handful of internet geeks want. BIO chanegs their games up all the time. There' a reason why BIO is still goings trong a dozen years into their existence while other elsser companies have failed 'cause others fail to adapt to the changing market or are stubborn trying to be main stream companiesand amrket as such but fail to deliver a product to match. Compare that to a certain company that feels they can borrow name value off of other companies and are then shocked they're unfavorably comared to said company.

Look, I'm sure if the game sold a bunch of downloads, Sega would be pro making a sequel. Afterall, if the game sold say 200k in normal copies but managed to sell 1mil with DD, Sega wouldn't have been so negative about sales since they have access to DD numbers - espiciallym since DD is likely cheaper for them since there's no packaging or shipping involved. btw, According to that link in this thread, Germany is amongst the European countries where AP simpkly did not sell well - espicially not as well some claim.

"Says Mr. "Anyone who critisies ME2 is wrong, it has no flaws". R00FLES." I must be wrong then since I criticized ME2 a lot.. and, got attacked here of all places ofr it. LMAO So, why do you lie? "Yeah, and I have heard EA say that about games that sold 1.5 mil units too. Sometimes expectations are... unreal." Maybe, maybe not. But, how many times do you hear a publisher come flat out just a month after release and loudly proclaim their game is a financial failure and because of that reason there won't be a sequel? Very rarely. And, I doubt Sega had 'unreal epecations'. They probably took into account how much money they poured into the game. Obviously, they feel the money they put into AP isn't worth it. Heck, JE sold a mil+, yet it's the only one of the 3 original BIO IPs that didn't get a sequel. And, JE likely cost a lot less than ME and DA to make so it liekly didn't need to sell as many. Bottom line is no matter how many units actually sold - be it 700k, 2mil, 1 copy, it didn't sell enough for sega to feel a sequel to be worthwhile depsite them claiming to like the 'concept' (which is such a lame cop out since I also like the 'concept' of AP). As for the silly Europe loving stuff, it's nonense, AP was not that popualr in Europe depsite the higher than average reviews. It 's 1st week it was only 12th in Britian (and worse in other European countries), and by the end of the 3rd week it was completely off the charts. The game failed financially. It's okay to like a game and admit that. Afterall, number of copies sold doesn't always equal quality. Afterall, I loathe the ES series but I'd be the last one to claim they were a financial failure.

Right back at you.

It wasn't an unfair beating. It was fair even if you disagree.

Because they don't make games for you personally. Or me.

DA may not be their most successufl game as ME2 may be doing better. It did sell more than ME1, though. P.S. As for the question, for whatever reason, people prefered ME2 more than DA. Even the hardcore RPG Codex seem to like ME2 more than the 'traditional rpg' DA...

" but there are people out there who don't fall into that category, " I never claimed other wise. No accounting for taste, afterall. "Don't be mean to Orogun." he claimed I was a fan of the Holocaust. That's rather mean as well, and deserves a smackdown. "I somebody as much as tweets something bad about BW you jump in defense. BTW, strawman on your take on Hitler, it was an example to signify your love of BW even if they released a distasteful game." Tweets/ I don't read tweets. You on drugs? Why make such a hurtful lie as an argument. I am bemsirched that you'd accuse me of being into tweeter. Disgusting. You claimed I love all of BIOO games. That's a lie. Deal with the fact that you are lying. It's rude to lie, and make up stuff about people. And, one's defintion of 'distatesful' can be different. I don't find the naked female body disgusting. Sorry. I do find bringing up Hitler and the Holocaust over a discussion of video games disgusting, though. If the only way for you to attack me is to bring up bogus points about me 'liking' the Holocaust in any way under any circumstance, that shows your wakness of a discusser not mine. P.S. DA2 will have changes. Some we will like some we won't. *shrug*

Bottom line Sega flat out stated that AP was a financial failure in their eyes. It doesn't matter how many copies shipped, sold, were stolen, borrowed, or whatever. It's a failure ebcause Sega says so and they would know. They have no motive to lie. "Sheesh Volo, are you in a 'who can be more disingenuous competition? 100+ employees across 2 and a bit teams and" I believe you are. Obsidian is not a small developer company. Stop pretending they are. They have a bunch of employees, and the employees of theirs that work on their games is not even including all the Sega employees that worked on AP. Or the publishers on their other games. For exmaple, go read the KOTOR2 book and be amazed by the number of Obsidian + LA employees worked on the game. And, that was when Obsidian was new and they've grown since then. I repeat: Obsidian is not some dinky little garage company, and you bemsirch them by lying about their status.

"So when Dragon Age turn into another of those half naked armored girl RPG you are going to okay with that." Absolutely. I eprosnally have nothing against half naked girls. Just sayin'. Should I be offended on your behalf? "Of course you will, BW could do "The Holocaust" rpg and you would love it." You assume that all BIO games. I don't. Stick with actual truth. "You mean like that chick in NWN who is totally memorable and loveable?" One of many half naked video game grils that are awesome. More than some stupid, ugly ogre. That's to be sure. "Hey, companies might think it makes business sense on a grand scale, but don't try and pass it off as The Truth." Exceopt it is. Unless you gonna argue that more people prefer big, ugly ogres to dragons or hot women? Please prove me wrong. If you can, I'll find the biggest ogre and sleep with it. K? If I am proven right you need to find a beautiful gal to date. Deal?

How can say the dragon isn't when it's in the logo? And, everyone likes to look at the hot gal than the big, ugly, stupid ogre. Ogre is just a kill. Gone and forgtoten; but dragons and pretty gals are forever.

"So, because a Volourn on another forum says it, it's true?" No, it's ebcause of Sega thesmelves stating quite clearly that AP is a financial failure. What motivation does Sega have to lie about that? "Obsidian uses fairly small teams, I don't think their games are that expensive," 100+ employees is not small. Then you have to throw the cost of the Sega employees involved with the game in as well. The tech used, the advertising, and then's the fact that the profit pie is spread between Obsidian, Sega, and the actual stores. When you say 'not that expensive'.. what do you think is expensive? 1mil? 5 mil? 10mil? 25mil?

"The ogre was the face of DA" O RLY? I'd have thought it be the dragon. Or Morrigan.

"Eh, if SEGA says it sold 700K, that probably means it sold 700K" That's if Sega actually said it. As for high cost of games, it probably includes salaries of full times who work on multiple games during the eyar. ie. If Sawyer worked on both AP, and FO3 in the same year (not saying that's the case); would his salary count for both? I'm sure Obsidian's artists work on both games for sure. So, there's probably a lot of double dipping in these costs. P.S. Aliens RPG cost (or would have cost) 30mil? That's just ridiculous.

Did you really have to drag me into this trhead? Are you that much of a troll that you need to start something in the thread I was purposefully not posting in to allow the pro brigade at least one celebratory peaceful thread? Trolls always dragging innocent into their messes.

"Because people are idiots. They see a brand/IP they recognize and buy it like a ******* lemming. " Or better yet, people like soemthing and they want more of it. It's why I've bough D7D crpgs even though I ultimiately thought some weren't so good. So, it makes perfectly logical intelligent sence that if you really loved a movie that you'll be more than willing to try out the game as well. *shrug* P.S. Plenty of movie based games do poorly.