Volourn

Are you working on a D&D game?

A MMO does not need WOW type of mnumbers to succeed. EA has already stated what their basic range is for both initial purchasers and long term subscribers. '11mil' was not any of the numbers they used.

PC games are usually 70-90 dolalrs. *shrug* P.S. No way would I pay $100+ for this. It's a MMO.. it ain't THAT good.

"when they're known as the top smear monkies in the business. " Nah. That's FOX and CNN.

No, he doesn't have to do any such thing.

"Yes they get direction to make their games more "accessible" from the Doctor's/EA, but each team is headed up by a separate individual which guides and directs the team on their project." A seperate individual who reports to the docs and the rest of the EA execs whom get the final say and tell them how to make the game. Also, as Purkkake states, that's how things ALWAYS work.

"Or it could be the fact that less and less developers are taking risks. On this market economy everyone seems to be playing it safe, mechanics (sadly) seem to have peaked." Yeah, because the GB games were so risky... LMAO Game companies were never about risks.. theyw ere about being successful. Plus,. you reply to me but at the very same time ignore what are you replying too. LMAO

No, no they aren't. They are both following orders from the dcos and from the EA mothership.

"Maybe older games just left a stronger impression because you had to use your imagination to make up for the shortcomings in presentation? Never underestimate the power of imagination" More like the fact that games were development was really young, the gamers were rather young, and there was very little to compare them to. People whined about facing two dragons at once in the NWN games (both aprtys) yet the GB games would throw multiple easily killable drgaons at you for no reason but **** and giggles. They would give you mass phat loot and nopbody blinked a but nowadays you get one or two magic items early and people whine the loot was too phat. LMAO

They need to add the GB, Ultimas, Wizardries, and Bard's Tale series.

Only 18% have played as femshep? Ifa ccurate, that's REALLY low.

The problem with 'non modern gamers' is they have rose coloured glasses when thinking of older games. Stuff like the GB games - as fun as they were at the time - would likely be laugfhed at by those very same people if released nowadays.

"are you seriously claiming that the US legal system does not accord spectacular favours to rich clients?" More than a few exanples of celebrities getting punished worse than the aervage joe or jane for the same crime as well. *shrug*

I want Obsidian to succeed and be rewarded when they make good, quality games like NWN2 and KOTOR2 not crap like AP and DS3. It's bad enough we're stuck with betehsdas trotting out thew orstb ever successful franchise ever with the crappy ES series. It's why i didn't waste my $ on S:RPG. It's trash, and BIo shouldn't be rewarded wasting their time on such trash. DS3 is a horrible addition to the Obsidian stable of games. I'm only being 'aggreswive' because some of the same people touting DS3's 'success are the same ones who somehow laughably deemed DA2 a 'failure' depsite it being more successful in every menaingful way - sales, ratings, fan response, and quality (yeah personal opinion so I don't need people saying they think it sucks). Agasin, to clarify, I want Obsidian to succeed but my making good games like NWN2 and KOTOR2 not bad games like AP and DS3. "Yeah volo, and when Greg and Ray talk about 10 million sales for Bioware titles they mean in the first month too" Out of context quote for the win! The dcos never claimed to expect or want DA2 to sell 10mil copies. Never. Only ignorant people think they did. Nor did I ever claim that SS said they expected DS3 sales to be 1mil within a couple of weeks either. But, hey, why deal with actual stuff people actually stated when you can make up lies or twist things into balony. L0LLIGAGZ! P.S. No matter what you claim, DS3 is not as successful as FO3.5. So there!

"What do you base that on? (not sarcastic) I haven't been able to find any data on it's sales figures and I'm actually curious if it did well or bad." Even the most positive spin has the game selling more than 400k with the lowest at 50k. With an IP like DS, the advertsiisng, a well known RPG dev company like Obsisian, SS's pedegree, that just isn't good enough for a mainstream game. - espicially since SS themselves seems to have satted that they were looking for 1mil+ sales minimum... and, I doubt they mean over a lifetime but within the first month or so. Throw in subpar prfoessional reviews, and the lacklustre reaction tot he game (Obsidian hardcore fanboys aside) it hurts a lot. Even AP seemed to have more posisitve defenders here for it. the Codex which is reknown to spending thread upon thread bashing popular mainstream titles like DS3 barely has a couple of threads dedicated to it. DS3 is no FO3.5 that is for sure. Just remmeber, btw, that DA2 sold more BY FAR, had better overall reviews (around 80ish as opposed to low 70s ala DS3 last I checked),and is being spammed about on the Codex forums because it's a subject that matters) yet people are trying to claim (and failing) that it was a 'bomb' 9which it isn't).. so, I wonder what that makes DS3 since DA2 was developed in less time with a pre made engine and the like. "You should know by now, Volourn doesn't need facts. He just knows things and we should take his word on everything." You say this sarcastingly tod eride me byu the funny thing is the facts are usually on my side. Like the last peon who thought I was making up the 'fact' that the DS series is a million+ selling series.. and, I was proven right and backed up by others and of coruse, that person shut their mouth sicne they were embarassed. My question is... prove me wrong as I am right 99.9% right when it comes to game facts. Face it, dudes. DS3 is no NWN2, KOTOR2, or FO3.5. It will lucky to be AP. And, the peopel trying to blame it on the DS IP are so full of it it's completely laughable. There is a reason why Obsdiian jumped on the DS IP.. and, it wasn't because it was their favorite RPG series ever... they did it for the same reason they jumped on the NWN, KOTOR, and FO (added bonus that about 6 of the Obsidianites worked on thee arlier FOs)IPs - for the moolahs and the 'slam dunk' sales. R00fles!

. "But I compared it to the movie Independence Day once before, it was a great looking game released at a very good time, but it hasn't held up as an important piece of software or anything." ID4 was ana wesome movie then, it's an awesome movie now, and it will always be an awesome movie. Just because it hasn't spammed a billion sequels (yet) doesn't mean it wasn't important. The fact ID4 is almost alway mentioned hwen talking about the aliens attack earth genre, special effects, and there's the fatc the movie is ALWAYS on tv during a certain holiday says how significant it was/is. DS - while Im loathe it - is a very popilar IP but it looks like Obsidian and SS has mishandled it. DS3 looks like a financial failure and all the spin in this thread doesn't change that fact. Certainly no NWN2, KOTOR2, or FO3.5 that's for sure. More along the lines of epic fail of AP. p.s. Chris Avellone is awesome but I doubt most are her for him. That's silly ignorance talking.

"That's a unfair exaggeration. The metacritic score of DS3 hovers around 70% which is a world of difference from the 60% AP got." 70% is not exactly great. heck, people are claiming that BIO got destroyed in reviews yet DA2 is rated a soc alled 'horrible' (I'd term it lacklustre compared to the usual BIO blowjob) late 70s rating. You get a low 70% you cna't be takens eriously. Not that review scores matter anyways. Only sdales do and DS3 was apparantly unsuccessful. "I'd like some proof that DS sold 'millions'." Im can't believe people still try to argue the unarguable. The DS series was/is a bonafide million dolalr seller. It came out within the ame time rnage as some HUGE RPGs like NWN and MW along with some stomped also rans like POR2 and IWD2 and did extremely well for itself. DS series is a multi million selling series. This is FACT. If you cna't sell a DS game, you are doing something wrong. "But that may just showcase a lack of IP strength and/or title exposure." See above. The DS Ip was strong and DS3 got some pretty good exposure. P.S. This doesn't eman I like the oruiginal DS games as I LOATHED thme and I'm sure I'd rpefer DS3 if I tried it.

"(1) I thought Square Enix was in a bad shape financially, with the joke that was Final Fantasy XIV launch and other assorted disasters?" I didn't hear about it, but if so they cna still handle a poor selling game and regroup. " Obsidian, if already paid by Square, is probably safe." That's not how game development contracts usually work. You get advances and as the game sells you pay a pecentage of your profits back to the publisher until you repay back all development costs. At least according to Mr. Sawyer. Most publishers just don't throw free money at devs and tell them to go wild and no worries if the game bombs. If the game bombs it will hurt both companies financially. "2) Sega doesn't own the Alpha Protocol IP, it has gone back to Obsidian." Interesting. I could see Obsidian bugging another publisher to give them money for a sequel. Ha. I'm guessing Sega had first crack at a AP sequel as publisher and said no thanks you can keep your crappy IP. L0LZ

"The only real thing at stake here for Obsidian is the chance to work with Square Enix again. " cUTE. "The quality of the game and the critical response is good enough that I can't see how it would affect Obsidian's reputation with fans or other publishers." Obsidian forums do not equal overall views. The critiical repsonse and the qualityn of the game has hurt Obsidian's rep just as AP did. DS3 has had subpar reviews and fan reaction outside these forums. Heck, the Codex forums don't even waste their time spamming their fourms with DS3 threads like they usually do. Why? 'Cause DS3 just doesn't matter. EPIC FAIL. FO3.5 was EPIC SUCCESS. " FO:NV shows that with proper targeting and advertising, Obsidian is capable of developing a hit. " And, AP and DS3 illustare they are capablem of developing failures hence why other publsihers will be more hesitant to put more money into the Obsidian machine hence lower budgets hence elsser quality of game as they cut corners hence the lost of more funds and the loss of jobs. Come on, guys, it's okay to like the game and still admit it failed in the bigger picture. I like plenty of games that didn't becaome popular. *shrug* No biggie.

"With DS Obs got to work on an IP that had no prominence at all." Why do people keep posting this nonsense? DS series has sold millions. This isn't some trashy series that has no fan base. It's fanbase is larger than FO series pre FO3. 100k (or the 300-400k that some are now randomly spouting to make themselves feel good) is just not acceptable for a mianstream game that took 2-3 years tod evelop with a well known brand name published by SS developed by the better known RPG dev houses. If ity's a failure for SS it's a more damaging failure for Obsidian because SS can handle losses a lot easier. But, still, the usual is occuring here - give accolades to Obsidian when things go wiell and bash the publisher and/or make excuses for poor little Obsidian (lol) when things don't go their way. DS3 - if the numbers are accurate - is a flop. Then again, these comments come from the people who claim because DA2 sold 2mil+, it was a bomb. HAHAHA! "Looks to me DS3 is about as successful as AP. " So... a bombg? Because Sega was very clear about how poor AP did - so much they didn't hesitate to publically trash its performance and put a squash on any Sega published (and since they own the IP IIRC that's a big oo) AP. "Did Obsidian have that level of responsibility for the project? I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Obs was hired to make the game Square Enix wanted to make. Similar to how the Wheel of TIme project seems to planned." Obsidian is the devloper of DS3 just as theyw ere for their successful games. Why make excuses for them? They are just 'helping' 9whaetver that actually means) on WOT. Of course, they have a responsibilty for the success of the project. That's why they were hired. The same way anyone who is contracted to do a job has a responsibility to succeed at the project, Obsidian succeeded with FO3.5:LV and bombed with DS3. "In the end its all marketing and pr anyway. With enough marketing, a plate of cold poop would sell millions. " Nah. Plenty of games fail even with heavy marketing and PR. Don't throw out random nonsense.

"Why would DS3 be considered a failure for Obsidian? It wasn't their IP. They were hired to make a game that someone else wanted them to make the way someone else wanted them to make it. DS3 is not "Obsidian's game". They were told what to do and did it. The game appears to have been brought in on time and mostly bug-free. WHich is a big success for Obs in and of itself. If anything this success should be a good boost to their credentials as a for-hire developer of other people's IPs." Are you serious? That's like saying if BG1 had bombed, BIO would have been able to sip away happy as can be.What a lame cop out excuse. You do realzie that every single game Obsidian makes they wer e'hired' by somebody else. L0LZ If DS3 sold as low as the claim is, it s failure is a hit to Obsidian's credentials as a for hire devloper of others IPs. Bdeing 'brought in on time' and 'mostly bug free' is not enough. In fact, out of the three, a publuisher looking to hire a dev will prefer a dev that sells FO3.5 numbers but with its 'bugginess' than DS3's 'bug freeness' but totally bombing numbers. You asked Bethesda, Sega, and Squaresoft which one is most happy with Obsidian.... The answer is very telling.... I bet you have no problem giving Obsidian credit for NWN2, KOTOR2, or FO3.5:LV right? L0LZ "Looking at the competition (titles that started around the same time) it still did fairly well though" No. If the game actually sold only 100k sales, it's a flat out bomb. Plain, and simple. Main stream action rpg based on a multi million sellings eries published by SS and devloped by one of the most well known rpg developers cannot live on 100k sales in the year 2011. Period. If those sales are accurate, it means disaster.

"Volo Lexx has a valid point, we don't know how big the budget was." We do know that in 2011, main stream games like DS3 need to sell more than 100k units in the first month to succeed. The Obsidian staff budget - let alone SS's - over the 2-3 years of development is likely heavy. Throw in actualm development, marketing, and everything else and no way cna this game be considered a hit at 100k. Plus, suppsoedly accoridng to these forums, SS was looking for sales of 1mil. 100k is not 1mil. "DA2 was a commercial success, it was a massive failure in quality, it was a massive failure for fan expectation etc... etc... DS3 looks like its been a failed project, but I don't think Obsidian are idiots for paying the bills with a project like DS3." DA2 was not a failure in quality. It's just as good as DA1. that said, that's just opinion either way therefore menaingless. Let's not change the subject here. We're talking about finanical stuff and facts. "Obsidian have been alot more successful than Troika, that's not even worth discussing" It is worth discussing. Yes, Obsidian is more successful - afterall, Troika fail victim to the 3 strikes law. Obsidian is on their 2nd strike. Sega flat out said that AP was a bomb, and it seems that DS3 - a sequel to a multi million selling - series has semeingly done as poorly or even worse. I perosnally don't think obsidian is gonna fold anytime soon. They have some good will saved up due to their success with NWN2, KOTOR2 (kinda since LA wasn't exactly pleased with KOTOR2's performance), and espicially the mega hit FO3.5:LV. But, if you think DS3 doesn't hurt them don't be silly. Of course, that's assuming the 100k quote is accuirate.

"We can't really judge if 100k sold is a bad number, because we don't know how expensive that game was." Yes, we can. 100k sold in the first month of a new main stream release in the eyar 2011 is a bad number. It's not even debateable. IF the number is accurate it's a mega fail. A genuine bomb. "I get the feeling Obsidian haven't lost money - Square, well they may have." As the contracted developer, it's hard for Obsidian to 'lose' money on their games since the costs tend to be eaten by the publisher. But, it just means they're gonna have a harder time to convince other publishers to give them more jobs or any kind of decent deal. This can lead to even more cuts making things even ahrder for Obsidian to do and morec orners being cut which can lead to Obsidian's death. It's the same thing that happened to Troika. But, anyone trying to spin 100k sales as a positive are just plain delusional. Then again, the Obsidian fnaboys who claim 100k is a success for DS3 are likely the same peeps who claimed 2mil for DA2 meant it was a failure. L0LZ

"(I'm not seeing a lot of signs that say Obsidian has a lot of room in picking the projects they work on, unfortunately)." That's 100% their fault.

"Anyone who seriously thinks a game like DSIII would actually sell well needs to check a doctor. Whoever came up with the dumb idea to revive an irrelevant IP needs to get fired. *looks at Square-Enix* All this money and time could have been used for a new and interesting IP instead." Nonsense. DS series has sold millions of copies. if DS3 hasn't, it's not the Ip's fault. "So far it has fared well, besides its a good game." Nah, not really. Whetehr you (or I) personally think it's a good game is completely and utterly irrelevant.