HippoJ

Don't expect to see something like this in Pillars necessarily, but this thread reminded me of the structure of Dragon Warrior IV way back. It had 4 sort of 'episodes' playing as companions in smaller storylines that foreshadowed the main quest and gave context for the world. I always thought that was an interesting structure and dug it.

Woo, love the teaser updates from Josh, and appreciate you consolidating them.

Stun and Paralysis (two of the most common and annoying disables) are against Fort. In this build it comes "accidentally" when buffing CON and MIG. Since chanters have low health and they draw a lot of aggro you can run out of your health pool quickly. So this is the reason to max CON. RES is a flat increase to deflection and concentration. You can solve the second one by spells/items/potions. Equipment solves the low deflection. Chants are not affected by interrupts and you don't care about your main attack. Then low RES doesn't affect this character because it gets balanced by high CON. Bull's fortitude is because at level 16 your build is complete and you have to choose a talent. Actually, it doesn't matter but I tend to use ciphers because defensive mindweb is OP as hell. So this is the reason to reach the higher fort defense you can achieve. You can protect your party from affliction that affects will (Charm, Domination) with spells/scrolls so it's not an issue. The reflex save is horrible, sword and shield style mitigate it a bit but reflex spells are going to crit this char often but on the other side he has a massive endurance pool compared to other chanters specially after +5% from the machine and +4 Iron's circle. More than Eder by the way. Ok yeah, makes sense in the context of a party. Just finishing my 2nd playthrough, so still feeling less-than-expert with finer points of class mechanics. Appreciate the explanation and love the build: feels fairly min/maxed but also pretty thematic. Thanks for sharing.

Interesting build. Question I have, while trying to wrap my head around it, well 2 questions. 1) Why such emphasis on fortitude saves (ie Bull's Fortitude) 2) Not concerned about the low will saves?

I've been wanting to make a party geared primarily (obviously not exclusively though) around sneak attack damage. It started with wanting to make a Priest of Skaen as my Watcher, and then figured it could be fun to gear a party around sneak attack and disabling enemies. Just looking for general suggestions for class/role toround out the final 2 spots in the party for me. It doesn't need complete overkill down to every talent/ability, just more of a sense of their role within the party. My current thought for the roster is as follows: 1) (Watcher) Skaen Priest - Buffs, Interdiction, possibly Aggrandizing Radiance, melee (either 1h/shield or DW) 2) Rogue (melee) - Max sneak attack damage, sneak enabling effects, possibly 1h crit focused melee 3) Ranger (ranged) - animal with Merciless Companion, wounding shot + binding roots + stunning shots to keep sneaks up 4) Fighter - tank focused on engagement/knockdowns, helps with sneak to some degree and just need a solid tank I don't feel like I have a good sense of what I'd like to feel the final 2 slots with. One idea was a chanter with chants/invocations focused on lowering enemy defenses and also applying sneak-related debuffs. Another was just a cc/de-buff wizard. Any suggestions are appreciated. (Note: this is likely for a hard/normal playthrough, not PotD)

It's not necessarily short sided. This is merely reflective of different peoples' preferences for how to play these games. It might seem short sided to you, but to another it might be one of the most important details about the game. In my many years of playing RTwP CRPGs (since the initial release of Baldur's Gate) I have never used party AI, and I don't use it for Pillars either. That said, I can agree that coming up with a really good AI set up can be enjoyable. For Dragon Age Origins, which to me is a completely different kind of game, I spent hours perfecting my party AI, and I only directly controlled all of my companions during the most challenging battles. But that's for Dragon Age. My Infinity Engine fix calls for different medications.... Oh, I didn't mean that it was shortsighted to want to play without any AI set up (that's a preference thing and actually the most 'precise' way to control every action, ability and spell in combat). The shortsightedness to me is claiming that using AI is equivalent to watching a movie. You still have agency and input with an AI system in place.

The "I'd go watch a movie" argument presented several times here is lazy and shortsighted. For starters, setting up AI can be a game in and of itself, one clearly a decent percent of people here enjoy. It's also a standard feature (and dare I say assumption) for party-based RPGs to have some semblance of AI in place. Lastly, controlling your PC and setting up AI for companions is not aking to doing nothing. None of this is to say the game "has to have" AI, and I played the entire game through before White March perfectly happily with no AI. It seems clear that some people do enjoy that option for a competent AI system and that Obsidian felt at least bare bones AI scripts were worth the time.

Apparently they were at one point more than cosmetic. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62578-torches/ Is there proof in that thread that torches were more than cosmetic? I just perused but didn't see anything that stood out to support your claim. I could have missed something obvious, of course. Having lighting affect gameplay (even just a few night-time or dungeon encounters) seems possible with PoE 2, and I do love the possibilities for use of a day/night cycle in interesting ways. I'd give Obsidian a general pass for PoE as they were building the game entirely from the ground up using a kickstarted (admittedly overwhelmingly successful) funding project for development.

The walk toggle thing is an issue I personally have no preference on, but have found that a ton of RPG players feel very strongly about, for purposes of uhh...roleplaying, I suspect. It would be nice, and I doubt it's anything Obsidian prioritizes over fixes and balancing, but not impossible to think of it being added, or at least maybe someone will pick up the mantle from the IE Mod.

The Pale Elf's racial ability isn't spectacular, but OTOH, it is a good solid ability that will always have some value. Agreed that the Pale Elf racial is a good example of one with a nice little benefit that doesn't lean strongly toward one specific play-style or role. I personally don't mind the racials as is (my first main was a Human barbarian, but I can see the perspective of not wanting to pigeon hole races. I expected racials for PoE, given the D&D inspiration and Obsidian's history with IWD1/2 and NWN2. It feels like they went for a middle ground between having some wiggle room for min/max and not feeling restricted to race in any given class. All that said, my favorite race might be the Aumaua (either subrace). Godlikes are a great addition, but for PoE2, give us more customization Minor, minor quibble.

MIGHT - "simple past tense of 'may,' used to express possibility." This should govern how nonlinear you are, and how much you can switch dispositions mid-game. Also should add to sneak attack damage as you keep opponents guessing, if you think about it. CONSTITUTION - "the system of fundamental principles according to which a nation, state, corporation, or the like, is governed." Attribute checks for citing the laws of the Dyrwood in dialog. Used to craft legal documents for your companions to use in combat. DEXTERITY - "skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility." Useful only for monks who don't wear armor, cause everyone else is using weapons or covering their body with armor. Dump stat. PERCEPTION - "immediate or intuitive recognition or appreciation, as of moral, psychological, or aesthetic qualities; insight; intuition." Unlock non-combat quest chain to become a literature critic in Defiance Bay. Also lets you question npcs' faith, and gives a bonus to identifying items. INTELLIGENCE - "the gathering or distribution of information, especially secret information." Bonus spy bounties at Caed Nua, and unlocks the 'Special Agent' prestige class. RESOLVE - "to come to a definite or earnest decision about; determine." Primary stat for settling companion arguments. Also reduces animation speeds for dialog choices and cool-down for changing out party members.

Interesting thought, there. I am about to embark on my 2nd playthrough (waited for WM pt 2), and while I generally liked the writing and story, I did find some of it, particularly early on, to be a bit murky or scattered in a fashion. It could just be that I was trying to process a new world with all of its culture and nuances along with the main plot so it felt like info overload, and the follow-up playthroughs with familiarity might bridge it all much better. This is Obsidian, I expected my fair share of descriptive/heavy text from past experiences, and I felt they definitely delivered what I hoped for in an Obsidian fantasy rpg, in a general sense, and I'm happy to keep supporting their projects.

You all are very patient people for contributing so much info and tolerating the lack of appreciation from OP, specifically after asking for tolerating OP's lack of appreciation or acknowledgement, particularly when the original post was in fact asking "I really want to know, what a Paladin is good for?" There's a lot of good info in here for people browsing with interest in how a paladin can function, and there are people who will get something out of it, at least. So thanks for that, yall.

OP: Much of the complaining feels like you you're looking for reasons to dislike the game (i.e. citing a cipher having to use a gun, which is....one of like 20 options for weapons). I also can't reconcile how you claim to not be able to even start a game yet you 'know' the plot is lackluster. Sounds like the game isn't for you, and it sucks to buy a game that doesn't work out, but I'd venture it's happened to just about everyone here. I expect TTN to be quite different in it's structure and isn't going for the same thing as Pillars. Hope that works out better for ya.