Guard Dog

It'd called an Elizabethan Collar. It looks like the lace ruffles people used to wear around their neck in 17th Century England.

I was driving home that day from Orlando to Ft. Lauderdale with my wife. We had been arguing all morning and were not on speaking terms (regrettably that happened a lot). We stopped at the Turkey Lake Service Plaza on the Florida Turnpike. I went inside to get us drinks and saw the news on TV. At first I thought they were playing clips from the 1993 bombing but right then the plane hit tower 2 and I knew. On the way home we were listening to the coverage on the radio. The argument was forgotten for awhile.

I was far more offended when Barack Obama & Janet Napolitano questioned my patriotism by calling me a likely terrorist since I am a veteran and I actually agree with freedom and individual liberty being what this country is all about. Hillary Clinton is a liar and not a good example of the best the human race has to offer. But right now she is nobody. A candidate. She thinks 47% if America is deplorable? So what? If she actually wins this election it becomes a problem. By the way Bruce, have you contemplated how much crow you will have to eat if Trump actually wins this thing? Better chew it good!

In November the US will have been fighting in the ME for fifteen years. Fifteen! That is longer than our involvement in WWI, WWII, & Vietnam combined. In that time the US Military has achieved every objective, won every battle and skirmish and lost nearly 6000 lives with near 50k wounded. What has that sacrifice bought? Is the ME safe? Had radical Islam been defeated? Has even Al-Qaeda been defeated? No. It is long past time we turned our backs on a part of the world that takes our blood and treasure and gives us nothing in return. If Muslims want to slaughter Muslims, let them. To hell with them all. Just my $.02. James Monroe was a smart man.

Wait interventions in Libya is bad but trying to screw up Iran is a good thing? I would not have supported them with military intervention but I see now downside to sending them money and material aid as well as intelligence. As long as it was kept on the down low.

No of course I don't think we should have intervened in Syria or any of them. I would not trade the life of one American citizen if it would save every man, woman, and child in Syria. But the President of the United States does not threaten to do something... and then not do it. As for bad mouthing us he called us all lazy this past week. Hows that. I linked the article. Did you read it?

Why do we argue with Bruce? Because he argues back. Being Batman would be boring as hell is it wasn't for the Joker!

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP supporters ? clinton has experience. is not same as being qualified. to once again mention the foreign policy blunders o' the obama administration would be a d HA! Good Fun! ps if kgambit or others wanna fight with bruce 'bout US foreign policy mistakes o' the last 8 years, so be it, but we has done the groundhog day shtick too many times for it to be funny. Guys please lets not be worried about discussing US foreign policy, I am very comfortable having this debate yet again. Some of you guys feel Obama failed or made several blunders, I know some but what exactly would you guys say are " failures of the US foreign policy " ...just make bullet points if you want so I get the general idea, because i can't be bothered to review the half dozen fruitless and previous incarnations of the foreign policy debates that exist on this board. fixed HA! Good Fun! Thats fine, I understand if you dont feel comfortable discussing this You normally are prepared to debate points for days so I'm surprised you cant just list a few points that highlight the Obama blunders? PS: I'm surprised GD even bothered. It was just off the top of my head. I'm not hunting for hyperlinks anymore. No point in that.

You conflating issues, I wont just call anyone a liar until I am comfortable with the facts How is my view of Hilary related to this " obvious failures\blunders of US foreign policy " ? It's not. Allow me to translate your first statement though. "Thank you for posting those video links I'll be sure to not watch them "

Fine. Here is a few: Pulling out of Iraq before the government was stable which directly led to ISIS becoming a thing. Telling Assad he would intervene if the Syrians used chemical weapons. Then not doing it when they did. Then doing it later but half assed. Interventions in Libya, and especially Yemen. Not using the CIA to support the Green Revolution in Iran. Bowing and groveling before foreign bad mouthing his own country every time he left our shores.

Thank you Gromnir. Bruce there is no point in wasting time gathering links that have been posted before that you either didn't read or outright dismissed the last few times. We're not going to convince you of anything and I'm no longer inclined to try. Hell I can't even convince you she is a liar. It's like trying to prove to someone that rain is indeed wet when all they say is "no it isn't".

At the risk of being repetitive.... it does not have to be this way. You do not have to pick Clinton or Trump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2qtQdIMcSg

Here is why this election is not about political principles. The turds have none: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12iBiPn1AXI

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP supporters ? Well, I'd imagine Chrs Stevens, Sean Smith, Tyrone Woods, & Glen Doherty might claim she is unqualified. But they can't because they are dead. She ignored them, left the to die and then lied to their families and the whole country (but not to her daughter, the President, or her inner circle apparently) about what happened. But you don't want to hear about that do you Bruce? Wouldn't be "balanced" after all. Thats a cheap shot .....uncalled for and not relevant No, we're talking about her management experience... it VERY relevant.

Don't wrestle a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it!

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP supporters ? Well, I'd imagine Chrs Stevens, Sean Smith, Tyrone Woods, & Glen Doherty might claim she is unqualified. But they can't because they are dead. She ignored them, left the to die and then lied to their families and the whole country (but not to her daughter, the President, or her inner circle apparently) about what happened. But you don't want to hear about that do you Bruce? Wouldn't be "balanced" after all.

No I didnt because it would be unfair to scrutinize either candidate's history in this way and then judge them on this type of past action Things like the email scandal matter to me And I am being balanced, I could post daily inconsistencies of things Trump says that are inaccurate but I only post the " big " things he says And right there you just fell into the biggest trap of this election. You can't make a positive argument for one candidate without mentioning the other. They are, without a doubt, the two biggest turds to ever float in the electoral bowl at the same time. The only positive statement anyone can make about either is "well at least they are not the other one".

By the way Bruce. Did you ever complete that little "homework" assignment I gave you? Learning about the creation of a company called Uranium One and Hillary Clinton's involvement in that?

He also had his "enemies lists" and a reputation for being verbally abusive of family and staff. Of course low character and high character can certainly co-exist. No one is so bad they don't have some redeeming qualities or so good they have no flaws. Still, I'd take a person which is verbally abusive over one who is corrupt and won't resign any day. Are you referring to Hilary when you say " who is corrupt and won't resign any day. " That Hillary is corrupt (or at the VERY least irredeemably dishonest) is no longer a fact that can be disputed Bruce. I realize you picked you horse here and that's fine. As I posted before being dishonest or even corrupt does not mean she will not make an effective President necessarily. But you should be aware of what you are buying with her. And her bad qualities do not necessarily make Trump a better option for some folks. It's not for nothing we say elections here are about choosing the lesser evil. Just to be clear, we are saying she is corrupt because of the whole email scandal and her private email server? Do you read nothing that get's linked here? Seriously? That is one piece of a very, very big picture. The corruption is certainly debatable. Was she using the server to hide from FOI & Congress? Is the Clinton Foundation a pay to play vehicle for bribes, etc? We'll never know the truth. but there is a lot of evidence to suggest she not on the up and up. But her dishonesty about it all, and about many, many things she has said and done over the years is beyond dispute. She is a liar. She is a habitual liar. Even YOU would have to concede that. Why would I automatically believe something that is based on a subjective view of her motives? Sorry GD but neither the email scandal or Clinton Foundation is irrefutable proof of her dishonesty but if you can share other things she did I would like to read them? I know you think I'm biased but Im not....I always look at any accusation objectively Jesus Christ are you really going to make me do this again? Alright, but mister, you had best read ever last one of them! She claimed to be dead broke when they left the White House: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyLhDz_ZvA4&feature=youtu.be , they were not. They were worth over $10M and each had just gotten $2M advances on their books: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/29/hillary-clinton-on-her-dead-broke-misstep-i-regret-it/ The whole sniper fire thing in Bosnia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZHO1vo762c She claimed she was named for Sir Edmund Hillary. She was six years old when he climbed Everest She claimed she tried to join the Marines in 1975, that wasn't true: http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/12/fact-checker-hits-hillary-for-claiming-she-tried-to-join-the-marines-video/ Even the FBI said she lied to them AND to Congress about her e-mail server She lied to the whole world about Benghazi: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/28/benghazi-report-points-out-obama-clinton-lies/ She was fires from a house judiciary job in 1973 for "unethical behavior". She and another lawyer wrote a "fraudulent legal brief". Need I go on? I haven't even gotten to Whitewater of the other good stuff.

He also had his "enemies lists" and a reputation for being verbally abusive of family and staff. Of course low character and high character can certainly co-exist. No one is so bad they don't have some redeeming qualities or so good they have no flaws. Still, I'd take a person which is verbally abusive over one who is corrupt and won't resign any day. Are you referring to Hilary when you say " who is corrupt and won't resign any day. " That Hillary is corrupt (or at the VERY least irredeemably dishonest) is no longer a fact that can be disputed Bruce. I realize you picked you horse here and that's fine. As I posted before being dishonest or even corrupt does not mean she will not make an effective President necessarily. But you should be aware of what you are buying with her. And her bad qualities do not necessarily make Trump a better option for some folks. It's not for nothing we say elections here are about choosing the lesser evil. Just to be clear, we are saying she is corrupt because of the whole email scandal and her private email server? Do you read nothing that get's linked here? Seriously? That is one piece of a very, very big picture. The corruption is certainly debatable. Was she using the server to hide from FOI & Congress? Is the Clinton Foundation a pay to play vehicle for bribes, etc? We'll never know the truth. but there is a lot of evidence to suggest she not on the up and up. But her dishonesty about it all, and about many, many things she has said and done over the years is beyond dispute. She is a liar. She is a habitual liar. Even YOU would have to concede that.

He also had his "enemies lists" and a reputation for being verbally abusive of family and staff. Of course low character and high character can certainly co-exist. No one is so bad they don't have some redeeming qualities or so good they have no flaws. Still, I'd take a person which is verbally abusive over one who is corrupt and won't resign any day. Are you referring to Hilary when you say " who is corrupt and won't resign any day. " That Hillary is corrupt (or at the VERY least irredeemably dishonest) is no longer a fact that can be disputed Bruce. I realize you picked you horse here and that's fine. As I posted before being dishonest or even corrupt does not mean she will not make an effective President necessarily. But you should be aware of what you are buying with her. And her bad qualities do not necessarily make Trump a better option for some folks. It's not for nothing we say elections here are about choosing the lesser evil.

He also had his "enemies lists" and a reputation for being verbally abusive of family and staff. Of course low character and high character can certainly co-exist. No one is so bad they don't have some redeeming qualities or so good they have no flaws.

No, it isn't unprecedented. He have had a few candidates with no experience and no love for their fellow man run and even win. Aaron Burr, George Wallace, John Tyler (who actually became President when William Henry Harrison died), and William Randolph Hearst were all bombastic and crude in ways to make you think Trump isn't so bad. There have been many with no prior political experience like Andrew Jackson, Woodrow Wilson, Zachary Taylor, Ulysses Grant, Dwight Eisenhower all won. They were all Army Generals (except Wilson) before running for office. Ross Perot, Wendell Wilkie, Horace Greely, Winfield Han****, Winfield Scott all lost. There are others but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. We've had Presidents who were not good people too. John Adams and his son, Richard Nixon, Warren Harding, and Lyndon Johnson were all reputed to be men you would look you in the eye, tell you to go f--k yourself then help you do it. Trump is hardly unprecedented. We've had a whole gallery of rogues, scoundrels, and pretenders along the way.