Darth Frog

Right. So far. It is a nice idea in principle, but the TSL implementation is b0rked. Not because you may miss one or the other dialogue line if a certain NPC is not in your strike team at a certain moment, but because the game tells you that there is (presumably) important background information to be had but taunts you with [influence: Failure]. Also, the game does not specify in any way the rules of this game nor is there any other feedback besides [influence: success/failure] and so your are left grope around in the dark. The influence system is further problematic in two ways: (1) Influence loss or gain does not only depend on your actions, but also on coincidental things like who you have in your party at the time of action, as well as who the third party member is, if any. (2) Many NPCs require trigger places/actions instead of conversation choices for the influence thingy, and there are too few of them (have a look at starwars_kotor_ii_influence.txt at GameFAQs) - not enough for all of your NPCs even if you know beforehand who will react to which event, let alone if you just play the game without a detailed plan based on walkthrough FAQs. The problem with (1) is this: let's say characters X and Y would normally react favourably to a certain action; if they are both in the party at that time then only one will react, unless one of them is Kreia who can really mix things up in various wonderful ways. This basically means that one and the same action might potentially give different results for each of the possible three dozen ways of choosing one or two companions for a particular outing. Let's say there are only a dozen actions/events in the game that are influence triggers (and assuming you know about them, which is not necessarily a given). The result is that you have to play the game almost five hundred times in order to cover all possible paths. Since some triggers influence only some NPCs you might not even know that a certain event/action is a trigger and so you might miss it altogether in your diligent playthroughs. Couple that with the sloppy scripting and you've got a mix that is a killer of replay fun (if you know about it) or a potent source of frustration (if you don't). There are various ways to build a solid influence system but this is not one of them.

The Guardian needs just one 'skill' feat more than the Sentinel (Guardian: Computer, Repair, Security; Sentinel: Demolition, Repair). Since the Guardian gets one more feat than the Sentinel, early (lvl 2) it is pretty much a wash. Also, only Security and Demolition need to be taken very early, the other feats can wait until you leave Telos (e.g. level 13). So it is even more of a wash. A drawback of Sentinels is that they have less HP than Guardians. This can be compensated by taking the 3 Toughness feats but Guardians can also take these feats and get even more HP. But this does not matter a whole lot unless you want to go solo or fight fair (e.g. no shields, stims, medpacks, grenades etc.). An advantage of Sentinels is that they get one more skill point per level, but that is just about 30 points over the course of the whole game and less than 20 during the phase where it matters. If you assign skill points willy-nilly then these extra points won't be enough, and if you assign them as needed then even an INTified Guardian will have more than enough. My lvl 18 Guardian has currently 20 skill points left waiting to be used for something, and so far he has recovered every mine and opened every lock and passed every skill check including Airspeeder and T3 upgrades, except for one Treat Injury 12 check on Dantooine where Kreia did the honours. There are three things that make the Sentinel unplayable for me: (1) no Force Jump (2) the concept is flawed (3) no Force Jump Obsidian eliminated almost all differences between the classes and on top of that they made the game so easy that it does not really matter what you do, so point (2) is more a conceptual thing. But a class that fights like a Consular and casts spells like a Guardian is anathema to me.

You need to decide what is important for you and plan accordingly. All skills except for Persuade play a role in crafting, but for that you can always use your NPCs. So here are some thoughts regarding skills for the Exile: Demolition: plan for DC35 by the time you leave the Harbinger and go through the fuel pipe to the hangar area of Peragus. This is where you encounter the first Average Mines (DC35 to recover), and you cannot simply come back for the mines later because (1) the game script will not let you proceed until you have eliminated the mines one way or other (2) there is not a whole lot of 'later' in this level anyway. The only boost that you can count on at this point in time is the Harness from the mining tunnels (+1). Class skills are capped at LEVEL+3 and at that point in time you are about level 7 (meaning max skill is 10), so you need to plan for INT16 if you do not find a nice item with a Demolition boost: DC35 - take 20 - skill 10 - Valour 1 - Harness 1 = 3 INT mods. Similar considerations apply in the mining tunnels a bit earlier: recovering Minor Mines requires an effective skill rank of 10 but in the tunnels you are around level 3. DC30 - roll 20 - skill 6 - Valour 1 - Harness 1 = 2 INT mods. If you have less than 2 INT mods then you have to hit level 4 before you can recover the mines. With careful planning this is possible but it is not trivial. The area will be sealed once you leave it on the other side, so you cannot simply go back later to reap the mines. Security: most stuff you encounter will be DC26 for a long time. There are some harder locks (first is a DC39 on the Harbinger) but you can use NPCs for pretty much all of the hard locks and the Exile does not really need high security skill. Tunnelers will give +6, so the Harbinger lock above would be possible with an effective skill rank of 13 (since out of combat you always take 20 on the die roll). Demolition and Security are useful for the Exile because of the extra XP from recovering mines and picking locks. Demolition is an alternative to opening locks without becoming unstealthed, but picking locks gives more XP and it is strange anyway that the use of explosives does not cancel stealth, as the BOOM from the explosives would normally attract lots of attention. Repair: breaking down items without loss requires an effective skill rank of 20, as does unlocking T3 fully (could also be 21, or my game is just glitchy). Apart from these aspects and some malicious scripting the skill has no significance, as it affects only the cost (# parts) of repairs but does not make a qualitative difference. Computer: same as Repair, except that it is not needed for breaking down items. E.g. it affects only the cost (# spikes) of computer actions and would be insignificant if it were not for malicious scripting. Persuade: having sufficient skill rank gives you more options and more XP. Only the PC can have the skill, so it is pretty much a must even for Guardians. Hard data on skill checks is scarce, though. Treat Injury: useless except for malicious scripting. Stealth: if you want to use Stealth with your main character then plan to spend a goodish number of skill points; one or two points won't cut it for long, even with booster items. Apart from that, the NPCs are better at stealthing and the main character does not *need* it (e.g. if you want to recover mines in peace then you can simply switch to solo, kill the opposition, then recover the mines). Awareness: only very low skill ranks are needed outside conversations, since the opposition does not use mines harder than Average. It may be possible that skill rank 0 is sufficient outside conversations but I have not checked it out. BTW, you don't have to play a nerd in order to get sufficient skills. A Guardian starting with 14 or 15 INT can do everything that a Sentinel can but it is actually fun to use (e.g. Force Jump). The Sentinel is soooo pedestrian ...

My mannikin finally has enough skills for unlocking T3 fully, and he is in Nar Shaddaa at a point where he won't be able to talk to T3 for a looong time (if Exile leaves the Refugee Sector by the front door then the Red Eclipse event will be triggered). So I thought this would be the perfect time for doing T3's upgrades, especially as T3 is going to play a big role in the events to come. The upgrades I've done earlier are 1st Computer (INT+1) and 1st/2nd Repair (CON+1/DEX+1). If I talk to T3 then 2nd Computer and 3rd Repair are available as expected, but if I do the 2nd Computer upgrade then the computer option disappears instead of changing to the text associated with the 3rd upgrade, regardless of the sequence I try and regardless of location (Ebon Hawk or elsewhere). In most cases the outcome is that things work almost normally - except that the 3rd Computer upgrade (INT+1, WIS+1, 750 XP) cannot be done - but there was also a combo where the 3rd Comp upgrade was available but then the 3rd Repair and the final upgrade were no longer there. The Exile has tons of influence with T3, and he can get even more by unlocking the Bastila holo but that does not change things any. Is this a known problem with a known workaround, or is it just a random glitch? JFTR, here is the upgrade info as posted on GameFAQs: [Computer, 1st time] +1 INT, 250 XP

I voted for the LucasArts forums, for a simple reason: the official forum(s) hosted by the game developer/publisher are a logical place to look for somebody who wants to discuss things about a game. The community seems surprisingly small even as it is, compared to the popularity and sales figures of the game. If you fragment the community further by having a large chunk of it exile themselves on an obscure board somewhere then the quality of discussion would go even lower. I think one reason for the curious lack of quality discussion even here, on the official board, is simply that there is little to discuss except for ethical and story line issues. On the surface TSL is a d20 RPG like KotOR or NWN, but the choices you get to make - class, attributes, feats, skills, powers, equipment, strategies, tactics - do not matter a pair of dingo's kindneys because the game is so easy. In most cases you can win even if you made the worst possible choices and use the worst possible tactics, so there is little incentive to discuss character builds, feat progressions, combat strategies or planet orders.

Thanks T.A.M., that is useful info. According to the GameFAQs guide there are three levels of Computer/Repair upgrades, and one final upgrade where the Exile gets the bonus. With your numbers I would guess the skill requirements are 8, 12, 16 and 20 respectively. Can somebody confirm? JFTR, here are the upgrades as listed in the FAQ: [Computer, 1st time] +1 INT, 250 XP [Computer, 2nd time] +1 INT, 500 XP [Computer, 3rd time] +1 INT, +1 WIS, 750 XP [Repair, 1st time] +1 CON, 250 XP [Repair, 2nd time] +1 DEX, 500 XP [Repair, 3rd time] +1 DEX, +1 CON, 750 XP [Computer/Repair, final] Exile gets +1 WIS, +10 Force Points, 1750 XP

Wow, that's quite a lot. Does it depend on the difficulty level? And how much higher are the subsequent upgrades? I am assuming that they do have higher requirements because otherwise people would simply do all upgrades at once. :D

What are the requirements for doing the upgrades on T3? I could not find anything specific in the walkthroughs at GameFAQs, and the search engine for this forum does not allow searching for T3 ... I want to make a special 'unlock T3' character but I still want her to be fun to play, so I'd like to make her a Guardian if at all possible (Force Jump, yay!) and put only the necessary minimum points into INT/Repair/Computer, so that enough points are left for useful attributes and skills. As an experiment I loaded an old save and tried the first computer upgrade with effective Computer skill 4 and effective INT 15 (natural 13 + Force Valour). It failed.

LOL, you're so funny. A small amount of damage seems pretty realistic, since the hilt could probably be used as a short club or cosh, like the flash light in Doom. Depending on how the 'blade' is constructed (e.g. semi-flexible translucent plastic tube) it might also be possible to use the light sabre like a cane, and it should be pretty effective - at least psychologically - if applied to the naked behind or feet of the opponent. :D

Hey, the game has only been out for two or three weeks ... Give us a little more time if you want to see some really impressive/shocking numbers. :D

OK, so the quest is indeed technically closed ... ... but in a KotOR game we would expect Lt Green to reflect that fact ... ... which means he should probably be griping about Vogga's cut-throat fuel price instead. :D One way of making sure might be poking around in the Dialog.TLK file, to see if there are corresponding convo options for the good Lt which just failed to trigger. Can't do it right now, gotta go to work (after only 3 hours of sleep <_< ... but we are in the Monthly Billing phase now, so it is pretty much par for the course).

Is the quest still marked active in the quest list? I thought it was completed as soon as you got Vogga around to giving Telos a fair deal ...

RoadReaction got it right, after dispatching the ersatz HK you can simply take the left (on the map) corridor to the Harbinger. The scene you seem to be thinking of is later, after the Harbinger. I know it is currently fashionable to bemoan the bugginess of the game but it is nowhere near as bad as people like you try to make it seem. Such posturing will not make you appear knowledgeable - quite the opposite in fact.

Another thing is that you need a free and clear path to your target. Doorways can be problematic, and also gaps in the floor, wall protrusions, pot shards and gizka turds.

No, not really. "You n'wah" is something that people in Morrowind say when they are about to die. :D

What? Bastila is unique! No other woman is on her level. God damn i love that girl... Visas is okay. But her german voice (the only one i know) is ... strange. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The real Bastila is Jennifer Hale who also did Juni in Freelancer. The localized versions of games rarely if ever match the quality of the originals and so I usually get the international or UK editions which have the original art but cost about the same as the German editions. They also tend to get released at exactly the same time, unlike the US imports which cost 10..20

Someone wrote a decompiler for NWScript. I don't know if it would work on Odyssey scripts. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is the source code for this available? And/or for the other tools? If so then there should be little trouble. I am also a pr0grammer and I'd be glad to help, but I now nothing at all about the NWN/KotOR engines and so I wouldn't be much help without studying prior art. Although I have some experience deciphering file formats and writing file format parsers (including a decompiler for FoxPro/VFP) I am a complete greenhorn with regard to Aurora/Odyssey. Aurora mentioned problems with KOTORTool... Where's the home site for that tool? What are the problems? It might be a good place to start.

Whether you want to role-play or power-game is your own choice, really. The game simply is there; it lets you do both but does not force you to do either. D&D has two dimensions - lawful/chaotic and good/evil - while KotOR maps everything onto the dark/light dimension. However, you can still play chaotic good, lawful evil or true neutral if you so desire. The first two will simply delay alignment mastery a bit and as regards neutrality - do you really expect a bonus for nothing at all? If you simply evade questions and avoid taking a stand then the game should put you about halfway to to dark side, and even further if you try to play both ends against the middle (a la Goto). You are either for Vaklu or for Queen Talia, either for the Ithorians or for Czerka. There cannot be any middle ground since the Exile isn't just some anonymous vegetable merchant, she is, well, a player. Avoiding commitment isn't truly neutral, it favours whatever side is currently stronger. I think if the current system has shortcomings then it is these: (1) every light side penalty is automatically a dark side bonus and vice versa (2) you can achieve mastery even if you are not really committed (it just takes longer), and you can thenceforth retain master status by doing nothing at all This could be fixed by adding something like a 'neutrality penalty' that pulls you back to the middle, and this could even exist in polarized forms that act as penalties for one alignment and are neutral to the other. Certain actions could be 'pegged' on the light/dark scale, e.g. stealing might be worth 20% dark and pull you towards that mark if you are lighter but it would do nothing if your are darker already. Things like having Big Z kill Mission would be worth a full 100%. Of course, this would make things mighty complicated for the game designers.

There are some more sequence dependencies, most are documented in the big walkthrough at GameFAQs so you may want to consult that before replaying the game (but definitely not if you haven't finished the game once yet). Offhand, Lt. Grenn's quests on Citadel Station (bounty quests, smuggling operation) are no longer available once you board the shuttle for Telos. As you have noticed, there is a problem with the escaped criminals bounty quest once you start working for the Ithorians. The False Batu bonus quest can probably only be completed before going down to Telos. Telos: if Atton is not in the party you choose for sight-seeing (hidden base in the Mesa, after freeing your companions) then the handmaidens won't recognize his fighting stance and you don't get to talk to him about it. But I am not sure about that one, I may simply have done something wrong. The airspeeder in Nar Shaddaa can only be fixed before you go to the Jekk Jekk Tarr (or whatsitcalled); if you haven't done it by that time then it will have been vandalized when you return. Also Nar Shaddaa, once you have gained enough reputation so that the Exchange wants to invite you for a talk you can no longer switch party members (say, because you want Atton/Bao-Dur/T3 to admire your handiwork on the airspeeder or because you want them for opening locks etc.). This is because the Red Whatevers are on your ship waiting for you to return, and from then on you won't have full control over your party until after the event chain ends on Goto's yacht. It seems that Mira needs a special place to trigger some developments (convo options, becoming Jedi), so if you don't lug her around on Nar Shaddaa you will never know what you are missing out on. This is really strange as there is no earthly reason for stalking around on Nar Shaddaa anyway once you have triggered the chain of events that results in Mira joining your party. Don't let the plebs on Dantooine see you with a light sabre equipped until after you have saved Khoonda from the invasion. It will cement their bad opinion of Jedi and even if you single-handedly save them from the merc/Exchange takeover later it won't matter. It may be only the mechanic on the landing site that is problematic, but I don't know for sure.

Speaking of Nihilus: on one hand he was able to annihilate the life of an entire planet (the Miraluka planet, forgot the name) which means his power must be really fearsome. On the other hand he could not even snuff two simple Jedi (Exile and Visas). That's a bit of a contradiction. Apart from that I found Kreia's explanation regarding the dangers of the Force depletion techniques rather convincing.

I agree. Last year I played the original KotOR about a dozen times in different ways and also other d20 games (all NWNs, for example), so I already had the game mechanics down pat when I started KotOR ][. But the most important thing that I had learned was that you have only one shot at playing a game for the first time, and so I took the time to 'smell the roses' as they say. Seeing your reply I was curious how long it had actually taken me, so I loaded the last save (from the fight with the 3 floating thingies that were borrowed from NWN, if you know what I mean): 62h 1m. Oops! Considering that the game was delivered on the 15th and I did not get around to installing it until the 17th... The save in question was made on the 23rd. :">

Sounds plausible overall but there's a snag. The True Sith have died out, and the place where they used to live is the same as that used by the ersatz Sith later. Korriban was the spiritual center of the original Sith empire. http://www.darklordsofsith.net/sith/riseofthesith.htm So if the True Sith are the unknown menace then it must be a faction that fled to the unknown regions, but by the same token it could just as well have been any other faction, including remnants of the Rakatan, or the angry spirits of the Gizka that bit the dust in KotOR I.

I have an ATI Graphics Card and I have yet to encounter a problem with it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Knock on wood then, you're lucky. I played KotOR I on an ATI card (9800XT) and did not have any problems either, except choppiness when there was smog on the screen. However, I switched to nVIDIA because I hated the general swapping around of driver versions or even mixing parts of different versions according to which game I wanted to play. And from what I heard that still seems pretty much state of the art with ATI cards today - just look in the tech forums of the games you play. So if you own an ATI card then you're in general better off browsing the tech support forums before plunking down money for a game. The situation is even worse with notebook chips because these often cannot be used with generic reference drivers and the update frequency for notebook graphics chip drivers seems to be about once per year.

That is an absolutely horrible vision. Morrowind is huge, really massive, and the landscaping combined with the weather effects and first person view makes it really immersive for the first few hours. But that's it. Because it took so long to lovingly hand-place so-and-so many cups and knives and whatnot Bethesda ran out of time and so they never got around to actually building a game on this huge map or a working combat/magic/alchemy/mercantile system or quests and so on. The good part about Morrowind is that it gives you the freedom to invent any game you wish and play it out on this huge map. The bad part is that you have to because there is no game in the box as it ships.

Unless you have a problematic graphics card - e.g. ATI whose OpenGL drivers are *still* notoriously poor - I'd say go out and get it ASAP. Despite a few flaws it is an excellent game and even more engrossing than KotOR I. If you are a KotOR fan then you don't really have a choice. :D If you make named saves whenever you land on a planet/station and quick-save judiciously during play then there should be little trouble. There are two problems that I have encountered: (1) swoop-racing doesn't work right on the PC (2) crossing map/area boundaries or triggering a cutscene will drop you out of Stealth mode, and in some cases it will teleport the rest of your party to where the controlled character is The first isn't terribly important and the second is manageable if you know about it (quick-save heartily).