Edér: What happened?

[Karkarov]

I think Eder-Iselmyr is very sick, I am glad it didn't fire on my pt.

Aloth has someone else in his head, another person, and that person takes control over his mind and makes him do things he would not do. And Eder in his stupidity doesn't see it.

Okay stop, you clearly don't understand the mechanics/realities of Eora.

 

Iselmyr is not "someone else". Iselmyr IS ALOTH.  He awakened to one of his past lives, this happened because in his current life he was not standing up for himself so his soul proactively did what it had to do to protect itself.

 

If people get Aloth to come to terms with Iselmyr and face up to the reality of why she happened, shocker, he starts standing up for himself, and actually can be a bit of a "meanie" (really Obsidian, that isn't even a curse word).  There are scenes in my Deadfire game where he outright insults Pallegina/Eder calling them names and or stupid.  In fact, he is far ruder and condescending to them than they are him.  So again, he is the same person as Iselmyr, if you teach him to stand up for himself anyway.

 

Why anyone would choose to keep her around is beyond me, because it just means Aloth as a character does not grow.

 

Lastly, more critically, has anyone even gotten this so called Eder/Iselmyr romance to happen?  There are data mined game files, that's nice, but any search of google on this subject only leads to this very forum where people talk about data mining it.  No videos, no threads where people discuss it happening in their game, no one talking about how they got it to happen.  Data mined files aren't real, because they might be "in the data" but they don't exist "in the game". 

 

Though I do agree Obsidian (and game Dev's in general) should do a better job of removing files/data that are not used in the final product.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Karkarov

[InsaneCommander]

I think Eder-Iselmyr is very sick, I am glad it didn't fire on my pt.

Aloth has someone else in his head, another person, and that person takes control over his mind and makes him do things he would not do. And Eder in his stupidity doesn't see it.

Okay stop, you clearly don't understand the mechanics/realities of Eora.

 

Iselmyr is not "someone else". Iselmyr IS ALOTH.  He awakened to one of his past lives, this happened because in his current life he was not standing up for himself so his soul proactively did what it had to do to protect itself.

 

If people get Aloth to come to terms with Iselmyr and face up to the reality of why she happened, shocker, he starts standing up for himself, and actually can be a bit of a "meanie" (really Obsidian, that isn't even a curse word).  There are scenes in my Deadfire game where he outright insults Pallegina/Eder calling them names and or stupid.  In fact, he is far ruder and condescending to them than they are him.  So again, he is the same person as Iselmyr, if you teach him to stand up for himself anyway.

 

Why anyone would choose to keep her around is beyond me, because it just means Aloth as a character does not grow.

 

Lastly, more critically, has anyone even gotten this so called Eder/Iselmyr romance to happen?  There are data mined game files, that's nice, but any search of google on this subject only leads to this very forum where people talk about data mining it.  No videos, no threads where people discuss it happening in their game, no one talking about how they got it to happen.  Data mined files aren't real, because they might be "in the data" but they don't exist "in the game". 

 

Though I do agree Obsidian (and game Dev's in general) should do a better job of removing files/data that are not used in the final product.

 

Maybe they left it to troll us. Who knows, the next thing people might find in the files is a romance between Worthless Idiot and Ishiza.

[OldViking]

 

I think Eder-Iselmyr is very sick, I am glad it didn't fire on my pt.

Aloth has someone else in his head, another person, and that person takes control over his mind and makes him do things he would not do. And Eder in his stupidity doesn't see it.

Okay stop, you clearly don't understand the mechanics/realities of Eora.

 

Iselmyr is not "someone else". Iselmyr IS ALOTH.  He awakened to one of his past lives, this happened because in his current life he was not standing up for himself so his soul proactively did what it had to do to protect itself.

 

If people get Aloth to come to terms with Iselmyr and face up to the reality of why she happened, shocker, he starts standing up for himself, and actually can be a bit of a "meanie" (really Obsidian, that isn't even a curse word).  There are scenes in my Deadfire game where he outright insults Pallegina/Eder calling them names and or stupid.  In fact, he is far ruder and condescending to them than they are him.  So again, he is the same person as Iselmyr, if you teach him to stand up for himself anyway.

 

Why anyone would choose to keep her around is beyond me, because it just means Aloth as a character does not grow.

 

Lastly, more critically, has anyone even gotten this so called Eder/Iselmyr romance to happen?  There are data mined game files, that's nice, but any search of google on this subject only leads to this very forum where people talk about data mining it.  No videos, no threads where people discuss it happening in their game, no one talking about how they got it to happen.  Data mined files aren't real, because they might be "in the data" but they don't exist "in the game". 

 

Though I do agree Obsidian (and game Dev's in general) should do a better job of removing files/data that are not used in the final product.

 

Here you go

That is all i could find on youtube

Creepy Edér is creepy

 

Even if it is in the game i would not see it, because i can't stand Edér. Not that i like any of them.

In my history Edér, Aloth and Pallegina are dead and the cast from PoE 2 i don't recruit or let them clean my ship.

Edited June 13, 2018 by OldViking

[Tarlonniel]

I believe Karkarov wants game footage of the interaction happening. That video is just playing the datamined files.

[InsaneCommander]

Well, if Matthew Mercer did it (was he talking to himself?), then maybe they were trolling him lol

[Aridea]

Okay stop, you clearly don't understand the mechanics/realities of Eora.

Iselmyr is not "someone else". Iselmyr IS ALOTH.  He awakened to one of his past lives, this happened because in his current life he was not standing up for himself so his soul proactively did what it had to do to protect itself.

 

If people get Aloth to come to terms with Iselmyr and face up to the reality of why she happened, shocker, he starts standing up for himself, and actually can be a bit of a "meanie" (really Obsidian, that isn't even a curse word).  There are scenes in my Deadfire game where he outright insults Pallegina/Eder calling them names and or stupid.  In fact, he is far ruder and condescending to them than they are him.  So again, he is the same person as Iselmyr, if you teach him to stand up for himself anyway.

 

 

Why anyone would choose to keep her around is beyond me, because it just means Aloth as a character does not grow.

 

I never said Iselmyr was NOT Aloth. Yes, its a memory, but its still a conscious memory. Besides, souls in Eora lose and gain parts during the cycle, so Iselmyr is still not 100% Aloth. And that consciousness still takes control, because its a different memory and a different life. Just look at what happened to Maerwald, and how his awakening and his multiple lives drove him mad. Its not Aloth's consciousness making decisions, its Iselmyr's consciousness, and yeah it does make it creepy, no matter how you put it.

 

Also, from what I understand Aloth standing up for himself in Deadfire is affected by the anti/pro-Leaden Key ending, and has nothing to do with Iselmyr.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Aridea

[Tarlonniel]

It's part of an entire arc involving Eder, Aloth and Iselmyr - which I actually kind of like, in spite of how it starts - so I can't see it as an elaborate in-joke which they decided to include in the game files on a whim. Unless they meant us to find it, and talk about it, and indulge in wild speculation...

 

Where'd I put my tin foil hat?

[InsaneCommander]

It's part of an entire arc involving Eder, Aloth and Iselmyr - which I actually kind of like, in spite of how it starts - so I can't see it as an elaborate in-joke which they decided to include in the game files on a whim. Unless they meant us to find it, and talk about it, and indulge in wild speculation...

 

Where'd I put my tin foil hat?

 

I was joking. If they voice recorded it then it is intended to be in the game. If not now, later. We'll find out eventually.

[Aridea]

I was joking. If they voice recorded it then it is intended to be in the game. If not now, later. We'll find out eventually.

 

I seem to recall there were couple of voiced lines in Bioware games that never made it into final games? Mass Effect I think had it, or Dragon Age Inquisition? I may be wrong though and those might have been simply written dialogues.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Aridea

[Tarlonniel]

I believe there was some voiced dialogue that never made it into the game in Dragon Age: Origins, banter between Loghain and Alistair which was cut when they decided to make them mutually exclusive party members. I don't think there's any way to know yet whether this missing banter is a bug or intentional.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Tarlonniel

[Celan]

 

I think Eder-Iselmyr is very sick, I am glad it didn't fire on my pt.

Aloth has someone else in his head, another person, and that person takes control over his mind and makes him do things he would not do. And Eder in his stupidity doesn't see it.

Okay stop, you clearly don't understand the mechanics/realities of Eora.

 

Iselmyr is not "someone else". Iselmyr IS ALOTH.  He awakened to one of his past lives, this happened because in his current life he was not standing up for himself so his soul proactively did what it had to do to protect itself.

 

If people get Aloth to come to terms with Iselmyr and face up to the reality of why she happened, shocker, he starts standing up for himself, and actually can be a bit of a "meanie" (really Obsidian, that isn't even a curse word).  There are scenes in my Deadfire game where he outright insults Pallegina/Eder calling them names and or stupid.  In fact, he is far ruder and condescending to them than they are him.  So again, he is the same person as Iselmyr, if you teach him to stand up for himself anyway.

The body is not separate from the mind, though Eora tries hard to make it seem that way. Aloth =/ Iselmyr because there has to be a unified sense of self in any healthy personality. As I see it, Iselmyr is a disordered fragment of essence that is lodged in his mind and conceptualizing it as a parasite is appropriate IMO.

 

Granted, the theory of human consciousness is extremely complex even without the body jumping in Eora.

 

As already pointed out, Aloth starts to stand up for himself and gains a sense of purpose regardless of outcome on Iselmyr.

 

But this is an Eder thread, and I'm just as perturbed at what the whole thing says about his personality. It makes him seem even more immature and kind of lost. Assuming the whole thing wasn't just some sort of gag on the part of the writers.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Celan

[Baltic]

 

I really don’t see what’s so creepy with the Edér/Islemyr relationship as presented in game. It’s basically a spur of the moment thing for Edér and Iselmyr reveals it’s all a prank before any serious discussion over whether it’s morally acceptable or not can happen.

 

Eder makes a move on Aloth's body because he's got some strange fascination with his skin rider.

 

It's extremely creepy. I'm glad I unburdened Aloth of both the Leaden Key and his split personality, for both his and Eder's sake.

Why is it creepy to him to like her? An actual relationship between the two would be creepy and unfair to Aloth, but in the files all we get is him liking her. She is a person after all.

 

All the points against it would make sense if it was an actual relationship. But it isn’t, it’s a spur of the moment thing. Edér’s character is being judged for something we don’ t know if he’d actually do.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Baltic

[Celan]

 

 

Eder makes a move on Aloth's body because he's got some strange fascination with his skin rider.

 

It's extremely creepy. I'm glad I unburdened Aloth of both the Leaden Key and his split personality, for both his and Eder's sake.

Why is it creepy to him to like her? An actual relationship between the two would be creepy and unfair to Aloth, but in the files all we get is him liking her. She is a person after all.

 

All the points against it would make sense if it was an actual relationship. But it isn’t, it’s a spur of the moment thing. Edér’s character is being judged for something we don’ t know if he’d actually do.

 

I don't agree that she's a person. Personhood= a body and soul integrated. For her to come forward, Aloth's consciousness is overridden.

 

It's the kind of crush someone would have if they weren't so good at actual human relationships.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Celan

[Noctoi]

 

I was joking. If they voice recorded it then it is intended to be in the game. If not now, later. We'll find out eventually.

 

I seem to recall there were couple of voiced lines in Bioware games that never made it into final games? Mass Effect I think had it, or Dragon Age Inquisition? I may be wrong though and those might have been simply written dialogues.

 

Yup, there was the loghain dialogue cut from Origins which someone else mentioned above, and there was in infamous "bisexual Cullen" conversation that was datamined as well. That one was at least backed up by a tweet, and was mentioned by some other companions here and there

 

Crying shame it never made it past the cutting room floor 

[Baltic]

 

 

Eder makes a move on Aloth's body because he's got some strange fascination with his skin rider.

It's extremely creepy. I'm glad I unburdened Aloth of both the Leaden Key and his split personality, for both his and Eder's sake.

Why is it creepy to him to like her? An actual relationship between the two would be creepy and unfair to Aloth, but in the files all we get is him liking her. She is a person after all.

All the points against it would make sense if it was an actual relationship. But it isn’t, it’s a spur of the moment thing. Edér’s character is being judged for something we don’ t know if he’d actually do.

I don't agree that she's a person. Personhood= a body and soul integrated. For her to come forward, Aloth's consciousness is overridden.

 

It's the kind of crush someone would have if they weren't so good at actual human relationships.

She still has a personality, which is something one could be attracted to and your second point is highly subjective. Basically my point is that Edér properly considering a relationship with Iselmyr and still entering it would (probably) be quite creepy. The relationship ends before it begins and Edér can consider if it’s imoral, we don’t know what Edér woulf have done if Iselmyr hadn’t been leading him on and so I don’t see how he can be judged for it.

[Yria]

Doesn't Eder try to kiss her though? Excuse me, but trying to kiss somebody's body while their mind is away (and you are well aware of that) definitely IS creepy.

[Baltic]

Doesn't Eder try to kiss her though? Excuse me, but trying to kiss somebody's body while their mind is away (and you are well aware of that) definitely IS creepy.

On impulse, and the creepiness is subjective considering that he is trying to kiss Iselmyr who is in Aloth’s body at the time. We don’t have anything exactly the same in the real world so whilst seeing it as creepy is valid, it’s by no means the only way it could be seen. Arguably the same concerns apply to any relationship with Aloth?

 

Now if Edér had put some serious thought into the morality and potential implications of a relationship with Iselmyr and decided to go through with and regularly kissed or went further to Iselmyr, their would be some seriously creepy subtext to their relationship. We don’t know if he would. He kisses someone who he likes (who is revealed to have been deliberately trying to foster these feelings in him) on impulse without thinking it through.

 

Also the ‘is this even in the game’ question which I don’t believe has been answered is still relevant if we want this to be used in discussions about his character.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Baltic

[Yria]

On impulse, and the creepiness is subjective considering that he is trying to kiss Iselmyr who is in Aloth’s body at the time.

 

Problem is, Aloth is still there and even aware of what's going on, if I'm not mistaken. It is Aloth's body in the first place, and he is supposed to have a say about who gets to kiss him, you know. So perhaps Eder should learn to control his impulses.

 

Whether or not we should use the same approach for anyone's relationship with Aloth is an interesting question though. I'd say it is still a different matter because it's Aloth's life and Aloth's body, Iselmyr is an unwelcome passenger there even if she didn't choose to Awaken. And judging from how she repeatedly tried to push Aloth toward getting physical with other people (she admits it after the conversation with his former classmate), she doesn't seem to mind it anyway. But it still is somewhat awkward to me.

 

 

Also the ‘is this even in the game’ question which I don’t believe has been answered is still relevant if we want this to be used in discussions about his character.

 

I think I had the first couple of conversations trigger in my game, but I can't say if it goes any further, because I separated Eder and Aloth just in case.

[Baltic]

 

On impulse, and the creepiness is subjective considering that he is trying to kiss Iselmyr who is in Aloth’s body at the time.

 

Problem is, Aloth is still there and even aware of what's going on, if I'm not mistaken. It is Aloth's body in the first place, and he is supposed to have a say about who gets to kiss him, you know. So perhaps Eder should learn to control his impulses.

 

Whether or not we should use the same approach for anyone's relationship with Aloth is an interesting question though. I'd say it is still a different matter because it's Aloth's life and Aloth's body, Iselmyr is an unwelcome passenger there even if she didn't choose to Awaken. And judging from how she repeatedly tried to push Aloth toward getting physical with other people (she admits it after the conversation with his former classmate), she doesn't seem to mind it anyway. But it still is somewhat awkward to me.

 

 

Also the ‘is this even in the game’ question which I don’t believe has been answered is still relevant if we want this to be used in discussions about his character.

 

I think I had the first couple of conversations trigger in my game, but I can't say if it goes any further, because I separated Eder and Aloth just in case.

Yeah Aloth’s reaction to Edér’s kiss is really weird in that he seems to have no idea what’s going on yet in other occasions seems to be perfectly aware of what Iselmyr does when she takes control.

 

If in some alternate world Iselmyr had not playing a cruel prank on Edér and Aloth and did reciprocate Edér’s feelings causing a relationship to start, that relationship would likely be full of areas where the writers did not think through how creepy it was. What we have in game is Edér doing something stupid without thinking it through. Bad sure, but not the same as Edér being definitely willing to sexually assault Aloth.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Baltic

[Baltic]

So I’ve been thinking about my views on this subject and will just leave the topic to rest.

I concede that Edèr just being attracted to Iselmyr could be considered creepy (though in a more odd and hard to understand way than messed up)

 

Whilst I was never in disagreement about this, I will state again that a relationship between anyone and an awakened personality has the potential to come across very creepily (in a messed up way).

 

However I will maintain that as the relationship is over before any serious discussions about whether their relationship is morally okay or not can occur, we don’t know what Edér thinks, making judging him over it seem unfair. He might consider it a big enough deal to take Aloth’s feelings into question and stop the relationship. He might not. As it’s an assumption either way, I don’t think it can be used to argue that Edér’s a massive creep.

 

What I will say about myself is that I may be too focused on the writer’s intent as that scene was clearly not meant to be seen in the creepy way some people have interpreted it so I may be lighter on it as a result.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Baltic

[Tarlonniel]

Generally, Edèr doesn't think and it's up to other people to point out where he's screwing up, something which Iselmyr is probably counting on in this case. But in the real world, someone with poor impulse control (not an actual mental illness) who commits a crime is still held accountable for that crime. Sure, Iselmyr is basically committing the same crime with malice aforethought, and some folks might hold the Watcher accountable for not intervening in the situation - it's pretty clear from the beginning that Iselmyr is crossing a line, way before the kiss - but Edèr is still accountable for his own actions. If Iselmyr decided to continue the "prank" and no one was around to step in, how far would Edèr have gone before he actually did start thinking for a change?

 

I'm not sure how aware Aloth is of what's going on while Iselmyr is in control. Maybe he just tunes out if she takes over for a significant amount of time.

[Aridea]

I'm not sure how aware Aloth is of what's going on while Iselmyr is in control. Maybe he just tunes out if she takes over for a significant amount of time.

 

I don't think its explicitly stated. Sometimes it feels like he is aware, and sometimes not. He definitely talks to her and you can make them talk between each other when she fully emerges in the Sanitarium. So I think its generally the battle of wills. Sometimes Iselmyr completely takes over and Aloth zones out, and sometimes the other way. Most of the time I feel both of them are present in a certain capacity and are aware.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Aridea

[Celan]

So I’ve been thinking about my views on this subject and will just leave the topic to rest.

I concede that Edèr just being attracted to Iselmyr could be considered creepy (though in a more odd and hard to understand way than messed up)

 

Whilst I was never in disagreement about this, I will state again that a relationship between anyone and an awakened personality has the potential to come across very creepily (in a messed up way).

 

However I will maintain that as the relationship is over before any serious discussions about whether their relationship is morally okay or not can occur, we don’t know what Edér thinks, making judging him over it seem unfair. He might consider it a big enough deal to take Aloth’s feelings into question and stop the relationship. He might not. As it’s an assumption either way, I don’t think it can be used to argue that Edér’s a massive creep.

 

What I will say about myself is that I may be too focused on the writer’s intent as that scene was clearly not meant to be seen in the creepy way some people have interpreted it so I may be lighter on it as a result.

Was it? I can't say really. I think there's plenty of evidence in Eder's story that he's not so good with relationships, so in that vein it's not entirely out of character.

 

I don't think I'm judging him, exactly. Weaknesses make a character interesting. I don't really buy impulse as an excuse. How it doesn't register to him "I'm kissing Aloth right now and he's not aware of it," I couldn't say.

[InsaneCommander]

So Eder thinks the watcher is creepy and doesn't want to romance them. But... Iselmyr is ok?

 

Now I understand the people who were angry about him not being romanceable.

Edited June 14, 2018 by InsaneCommander

[Tarlonniel]

I wish Iselmyr was more of a character and less of a... plot device. We never get to have much of a conversation with her. Aloth doesn't have any of her memories - does she have her memories? Could she erase herself from Aloth's head if she wanted to? Does she want to? Is there anything more to her than an accent and a rowdy, earthy personality? Do I think too much about these things?