Please (Paradox/Obsidian) God....

[whiskiz]

This has probably been pretty obvious and complained about alot and was removed/fixed a long time ago, but if not - please god can you guys remove skills that are only usable "per rest"

 

Moar per encounter.

 

Trying to play PoE 1 to get back into the world and lore before playing 2, since apparently it's a direct sequel and i'm playing on PotD difficulty, where you basically need to use most things every fight (especially if you haven't just looked up and copy/pasted all the OP stuff online) and having to run back to stronghold/town and rest every 3 fights or so is not fun.

 

Even if it wasn't PotD or a challenge at all, having abilities you can only use a few times at most, per rest, is not fun.

 

Having all spells of classes like Druid/Mage, be made up entirely of these, is just /facepalm

 

Please god...........................

[Lamppost in Winter]

buddy have i got good news for you

 

Everything in Deadfire is per-encounter except item spellbinds and Empower, a universal per-rest resource that supercharges your abilities or restores per-encounter resources.

[Boeroer]

Even if it wasn't PotD or a challenge at all, having abilities you can only use a few times at most, per rest, is not fun.

 

Having all spells of classes like Druid/Mage, be made up entirely of these, is just /facepalm

This is highly subjective. I like 4 per-rest spells better than 2 per encounter - because it's more powerful when you need the power - and in trash fights I need no spells. So I would be cautious with the random facepalms.

[Yosharian]

 

Even if it wasn't PotD or a challenge at all, having abilities you can only use a few times at most, per rest, is not fun.

 

Having all spells of classes like Druid/Mage, be made up entirely of these, is just /facepalm

This is highly subjective. I like 4 per-rest spells better than 2 per encounter - because it's more powerful when you need the power - and in trash fights I need no spells. So I would be cautious with the random facepalms.

I hate per rest design personally...

[Erik Dirk]

I always hated the per rest, simply because I wouldn't use those spells/items, but then I'd need to rest anyway due to health.

[Wormerine]

In addition Paradox isn’t involved. Versus Evil is publishing the title.

[whiskiz]

 

Even if it wasn't PotD or a challenge at all, having abilities you can only use a few times at most, per rest, is not fun.

 

Having all spells of classes like Druid/Mage, be made up entirely of these, is just /facepalm

This is highly subjective. I like 4 per-rest spells better than 2 per encounter - because it's more powerful when you need the power - and in trash fights I need no spells. So I would be cautious with the random facepalms.

 

 So per-rest having more power when you need it, then auto attacking 80% of the rest of trash/combat, especially with full per-rest classes like mage/druid/priest, is better gameplay and what you'd prefer?

 

You don't need spells for trash? Wut. Maybe if you're playing normal difficulty or otherwise casually. This isn't an mmo, there is no "trash" If you only need spells and most abilities for boss fights only, there's a (balance) problem.

 

If you like that style of gameplay, you have an even bigger problem.

 

So don't mind me if i /facepalm away

Edited May 10, 2018 by whiskiz

[Phyriel]

I always hated the per rest, simply because I wouldn't use those spells/items, but then I'd need to rest anyway due to health.

 

So why wouldn't you use those spells even knowing you'd have to rest anyway? Your complaint makes no sense. 

[whiskiz]

 

I always hated the per rest, simply because I wouldn't use those spells/items, but then I'd need to rest anyway due to health.

 

So why wouldn't you use those spells even knowing you'd have to rest anyway? Your complaint makes no sense. 

 

 

It's probably the same thing as the whole saving potions just in case you need them, only to finish the game with 100's of potions.

 

Kind of like me and consumables currently, in PoE 1.

Edited May 10, 2018 by whiskiz

[algroth]

 

I always hated the per rest, simply because I wouldn't use those spells/items, but then I'd need to rest anyway due to health.

 

So why wouldn't you use those spells even knowing you'd have to rest anyway? Your complaint makes no sense. 

 

 

Because of the age-old question of "what if I need it for the next fight?". I use spells myself a little more but I know that "resource anxiety" pretty well and suffer it especially when dealing with consumable items and finite ammunition, so I can sympathize. Either way I'm happy with either the first Pillars system which offered some per-encounter abilities for spellcasters to use alongside the per-rest spells, or the Deadfire per-encounter system now that I've tried it - both are good fun for me and feel good without incentivating the above attitude necessarily.

[Phyriel]

 

 

Even if it wasn't PotD or a challenge at all, having abilities you can only use a few times at most, per rest, is not fun.

 

Having all spells of classes like Druid/Mage, be made up entirely of these, is just /facepalm

This is highly subjective. I like 4 per-rest spells better than 2 per encounter - because it's more powerful when you need the power - and in trash fights I need no spells. So I would be cautious with the random facepalms.

 

 So per-rest having more power when you need it, then auto attacking 80% of the rest of trash/combat, especially with full per-rest classes like mage/druid/priest, is better gameplay and what you'd prefer?

 

You don't need spells for trash? Wut. Maybe if you're playing normal difficulty or otherwise casually. This isn't an mmo, there is no "trash" If you only need spells and most abilities for boss fights only, there's a (balance) problem.

 

If you like that style of gameplay, you have an even bigger problem.

 

So don't mind me if i /facepalm away

 

 

I don't quite understand your complaint here. I finished poe 1 multiple times on potd, also solo as a wizard. There are "trash" fights, Boeroer probably refers to many fights that require you to use just chillfog + combustive wounds + per encounter blasts only or sth like that. There are tons of trivial fights like that and once you're at max level you can easily clear like 4 groups of enemies using lower level spells and still having high level spells left for a boss "in the last room". In a way poe 1 with more but per rest resources was giving much more power to the player because you could easily just choose to use your your best spells every god damn fight and just spam resting which was making game trivial. With per encounter system you will always use your best tools first practically in every fight, using weaker spells just for clean up/funzies... its taking away a lot from diversity and tactical management of resources, even tho resting in poe 1 was soooo easy... you had supplies at like 90% of the vendors in the game tons of supplies in dungeon chests, barrels etc... you could sleep pretty much everywhere except Defiance Bay but you had 3 inns across what? 5 city zones, hardly anything hard or inconvenient and even in a number of maps where you couldn't rest you were always able leave a map to rest, resupply and come back without any consequences whatsoever.

 

I take it you find it inconvenient having to resupply now and then after failing to manage your resources adequately to the encounters...  not to mention its an rpg game and being a wizard that can cast 24/7 per encounter spells without having to rest at all is a bit more /facepalm than your /facepalm away so yeah /derp. Have a good day buddy. 

[Phyriel]

 

 

I always hated the per rest, simply because I wouldn't use those spells/items, but then I'd need to rest anyway due to health.

 

So why wouldn't you use those spells even knowing you'd have to rest anyway? Your complaint makes no sense. 

 

 

Because of the age-old question of "what if I need it for the next fight?". I use spells myself a little more but I know that "resource anxiety" pretty well and suffer it especially when dealing with consumable items and finite ammunition, so I can sympathize. Either way I'm happy with either the first Pillars system which offered some per-encounter abilities for spellcasters to use alongside the per-rest spells, or the Deadfire per-encounter system now that I've tried it - both are good fun for me and feel good without incentivating the above attitude necessarily.

 

 

So its the issue with not knowing the game very much than anything else. I like the systems that reward experienced players on their next playthroughs. Anyway as I said in above post... even if you run out of resources resting was super easy and even in rare occasions where you couldn't rest there were no obstacles to just leave the zone and go resupply/rest at the inn somewhere. I get it some folks find it inconvenient having to resupply in an rpg game (lawd have mercy over that theme park mmo generation) but its a classic rpg game for christ sake, you're not supposed to be this dragon ball killing machine that can go 24/7 without a rest, never slowing down or... thinking for that matter (god forbid having to think in a game nowadays) /rant.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Phyriel

[Boeroer]

 

 

Even if it wasn't PotD or a challenge at all, having abilities you can only use a few times at most, per rest, is not fun.

 

Having all spells of classes like Druid/Mage, be made up entirely of these, is just /facepalm

This is highly subjective. I like 4 per-rest spells better than 2 per encounter - because it's more powerful when you need the power - and in trash fights I need no spells. So I would be cautious with the random facepalms.

So per-rest having more power when you need it, then auto attacking 80% of the rest of trash/combat, especially with full per-rest classes like mage/druid/priest, is better gameplay and what you'd prefer?

 

You don't need spells for trash? Wut. Maybe if you're playing normal difficulty or otherwise casually. This isn't an mmo, there is no "trash" If you only need spells and most abilities for boss fights only, there's a (balance) problem.

 

If you like that style of gameplay, you have an even bigger problem.

 

So don't mind me if i /facepalm away

You can facepalm as much as you like since it will only hurt your face, not mine.

 

I only played PoTD and have a few hours "above the average" under the belt. One can't really say that I played this game casually.

 

For me 90% of fights in PoE are trash fights when walking around with a full party.

 

But even for solo runs per rest is to be preferred from a Powergamer's perspective.

 

Of course it's a lot harder to balance and encounter design is a nightmare with per rest.

 

Also for a new players without meta knowledge per encounter is better. Since they doesn't know what will come next most tend to hoard spells and then rest because of health issues.

 

But since I have meta knowledge galore for me per rest is the preferred mechanic.

 

As I said: highly subjective.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Boeroer

[rjshae]

I for one like 'per rest' abilities. It makes you think more strategically.

[whiskiz]

 

 

 

Even if it wasn't PotD or a challenge at all, having abilities you can only use a few times at most, per rest, is not fun.

 

Having all spells of classes like Druid/Mage, be made up entirely of these, is just /facepalm

This is highly subjective. I like 4 per-rest spells better than 2 per encounter - because it's more powerful when you need the power - and in trash fights I need no spells. So I would be cautious with the random facepalms.

 

 So per-rest having more power when you need it, then auto attacking 80% of the rest of trash/combat, especially with full per-rest classes like mage/druid/priest, is better gameplay and what you'd prefer?

 

You don't need spells for trash? Wut. Maybe if you're playing normal difficulty or otherwise casually. This isn't an mmo, there is no "trash" If you only need spells and most abilities for boss fights only, there's a (balance) problem.

 

If you like that style of gameplay, you have an even bigger problem.

 

So don't mind me if i /facepalm away

 

 

I don't quite understand your complaint here. I finished poe 1 multiple times on potd, also solo as a wizard. There are "trash" fights, Boeroer probably refers to many fights that require you to use just chillfog + combustive wounds + per encounter blasts only or sth like that. There are tons of trivial fights like that and once you're at max level you can easily clear like 4 groups of enemies using lower level spells and still having high level spells left for a boss "in the last room". In a way poe 1 with more but per rest resources was giving much more power to the player because you could easily just choose to use your your best spells every god damn fight and just spam resting which was making game trivial. With per encounter system you will always use your best tools first practically in every fight, using weaker spells just for clean up/funzies... its taking away a lot from diversity and tactical management of resources, even tho resting in poe 1 was soooo easy... you had supplies at like 90% of the vendors in the game tons of supplies in dungeon chests, barrels etc... you could sleep pretty much everywhere except Defiance Bay but you had 3 inns across what? 5 city zones, hardly anything hard or inconvenient and even in a number of maps where you couldn't rest you were always able leave a map to rest, resupply and come back without any consequences whatsoever.

 

I take it you find it inconvenient having to resupply now and then after failing to manage your resources adequately to the encounters...  not to mention its an rpg game and being a wizard that can cast 24/7 per encounter spells without having to rest at all is a bit more /facepalm than your /facepalm away so yeah /derp. Have a good day buddy. 

 

 

"There are tons of trivial fights like that and once you're max level...."

 

Can we not debate anything on the premise of just end game..

 

"In a way poe 1 with more per rest resources was giving much more power to the player because you could easily just choose to use your your best spells every god damn fight and just spam resting which was making game trivial"

 

Exactly, you just argued my point. It made it trivial, tedious and imbalanced. How are you even trying to debate this system was actually a good thing? Trying to argue that "its taking away a lot from diversity and tactical management of resources" When it was just a tedious gimmick.

 

Do a couple of you really not see this?

 

"With per encounter system you will always use your best tools first practically in every fight, using weaker spells just for clean up/funzies... its taking away a lot from diversity and tactical management of resources"

 

Yeah, cause who wants to be able to use everything they have each fight? Using all the awesomeness and fun of their characters every fight? And have a much better balanced game because of it. Needing to use everything on the harder difficulties (can't wait to get this when PotD is balanced/fixed) Instead we should be auto attacking 80% of combat or just using basic spells, severely restricting ourselves and gameplay because it "takes away from diversity and tactical management of resources"

 

Lol.

 

"its taking away a lot from diversity and tactical management of resources, even tho resting in poe 1 was soooo easy... you had supplies at like 90% of the vendors in the game tons of supplies in dungeon chests, barrels etc... you could sleep pretty much everywhere except Defiance Bay but you had 3 inns across what? 5 city zones, hardly anything hard or inconvenient and even in a number of maps where you couldn't rest you were always able leave a map to rest, resupply and come back without any consequences whatsoever."

 

I get it - you have a bit of a problem with reading comprehension, so let me help - I never said resting was hard, i said it wasn't fun, needing to do so every few fights and having entire classes made up of per rest abilities, severely restricting you and making you have to rest every couple fights on harder difficulties. You even argued my point again - saying how easy it is to rest, so exactly how does it add "diversity and tactical management of resources" when it's just some easy but tedious gimmick?

 

It adds nothing, it restricts alot, made the game imbalanced and again was tedious and unfun.

 

But please, keep trying to argue how these are a good thing. "/derp"

 

P.S Glad most people and even the devs understand how the mechanic was terrible and needed to go. I again can't wait until PotD is finished properly and we need to use everything every fight, just to survive, where you can't just rely on knowing which fights are easy and then saving OP spells for anything with any challenge that comes along to faceroll it. Or having "meta knowledge" as some call it.

 

Lol.

Edited May 11, 2018 by whiskiz

[Boeroer]

Again: subjective. You shouldn't judge how people like their game. There are obvious advantages of more per-rest spells over fewer per-encounter spells and of course there are disadvantages. But different people like to care about different things. Dismissing them as idiots (or suggesting so) just because they don't agree with you and putting your subjective opinion on that matter above all others while laughing at their alleged stupidness or blindness that prevents them to see the light will only get you so far.

[XANi]

Again: subjective. You shouldn't judge how people like their game. There are obvious advantages of more per-rest spells over fewer per-encounter spells and of course there are disadvantages. But different people like to care about different things. Dismissing them as idiots (or suggesting so) just because they don't agree with you and putting your subjective opinion on that matter above all others while laughing at their alleged stupidness or blindness that prevents them to see the light will only get you so far.

 

Well if you ignore the fact that rests are pretty much free and without much risk...

 

Per rest doesn't make much sense because there is also no disadvantages to just constantly resting to regen the powerful spells/items, except boring micromanagement.

 

If there was some kind of limit to it, say "you can bring enough food to camp only 5 times per dungeon", I'd agree, it might make some things more interesting and strategical

 

With current implementation of it, there is no "discussion"; "per rest" is just badly designed.

 

I'd almost prefer they scrapped it completely and used some other thing to "recharge" those abilities;  like "recharges after party killed 10 mobs" or "recharges every 500 hp healed during combat

[Tigranes]

'run back to stronghold/town and rest every 3 fights or so is not fun.'

 

That sounds sucky, yeah. Why not put the difficulty down, build the party more defensively to avoid going gung-ho, etc?

 

There are problems with the per-rest/per-enc stuff in both POE1 and POE2, but I wouldn't want the game to let me unload all I got every single fight, and wipe out the attrition dynamic.

[whiskiz]

'run back to stronghold/town and rest every 3 fights or so is not fun.'

 

That sounds sucky, yeah. Why not put the difficulty down, build the party more defensively to avoid going gung-ho, etc?

 

There are problems with the per-rest/per-enc stuff in both POE1 and POE2, but I wouldn't want the game to let me unload all I got every single fight, and wipe out the attrition dynamic.

 

Because if i can get by on the hardest difficulty the first time playing the game, just needing to tediously rest every so often, then lowering the difficulty would just make things a boring faceroll. It'd make needing to know and play the mechanics redundant and i'd end up falling asleep haha.

 

I'd be interested to know why you think the attrition dynamic is worth even having at all. I feel like all it is, is some archaic mechanic from an oldschool game that this game represents and that's the only reason it was implemented and is the only reason anyone is interested in it.

 

If we're being honest.

 

Let's take it out and put it in another game to see how it holds up, for example the Diablo series (since at least the combat is similar) imagine in D3 you could only use each skill 3 times then had to run back to town. Would that make it fun? Somehow enhance it? Then why would it here. It doesn't make things more strategical, all it does is disrupt gameplay, severely restrict your character arbitrarily and make it hard to balance combat.

 

This game may be a different genre but that alone doesn't justify it, especially when again the mechanic is just a nod to an oldschool game this is based off.

 

Do nothing in easy fights but auto attack and maybe a lower spell or 2, because you have to save your stuff, then blow everything on boss/harder fights and faceroll.

 

I really believe the only thing a couple people see in this mechanic, is oldschool nostalgia.

Edited May 11, 2018 by whiskiz

[Boeroer]

It's not about what is objectively better or worse. This is a complex matter and both approaches have cons and pros that might apply or not apply to a player. I said that from a designer's point of view per-rest is a nightmare. I also don't have any problems with the change to per-encounter per se although I like the per-rest system because it makes certain things easier - for example it's a lot easier to solo as a caster if you have lots of per-rest spells (and can get resting supplies very easily) compared to one who "only" has few per-encounter spells.

 

It's about the attitude and tone with which one's opinion gets posted. And of course you are entitled to have your own opinion no matter how weird it might be (in this case it's not weird obviously - just a bit different from mine which is totally fine).

 

But if you say: "How can anybody eat pizza? It's bad! It's so unhealthy! Can't you see it? *facepalm*" you are indirectly insulting everybody who likes pizza.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Boeroer

[JerekKruger]

Well if you ignore the fact that rests are pretty much free and without much risk...

 

Obsidian speed the ball her in my opinion. They introduced camping supplies, but put something like to our three in every dungeon meaning even on PotD you could try maybe five times without returning to town: more than enough.

 

They should have committed to their restriction more, making the only way to get camping supplies to buy them at shops. This people who are willing to travel back to town in order to rest spam are the minority, no matter what they say, and Obsidian would have achieved their goal in most cases.

 

As someone who never rest spammed in PoE I prefer per rest for the resurge management aspect and flexibility it offered.

[Zoso der Goldene]

 

Well if you ignore the fact that rests are pretty much free and without much risk...

Obsidian speed the ball her in my opinion. They introduced camping supplies, but put something like to our three in every dungeon meaning even on PotD you could try maybe five times without returning to town: more than enough.

 

They should have committed to their restriction more, making the only way to get camping supplies to buy them at shops. This people who are willing to travel back to town in order to rest spam are the minority, no matter what they say, and Obsidian would have achieved their goal in most cases.

 

As someone who never rest spammed in PoE I prefer per rest for the resurge management aspect and flexibility it offered.

 

Minority here.

 

When you do a blind TCS or ultimate run, not resting whenever you can is taking an unnecessary risk and asking for disaster. After that, it's not blind anymore, so yeah, am I willing to travel back to town whenever!

[JerekKruger]

When you do a blind TCS or ultimate run, not resting whenever you can is taking an unnecessary risk and asking for disaster. After that, it's not blind anymore, so yeah, am I willing to travel back to town whenever!

 

I'd say that's different. Doing TCS/Ultimate is a different beast altogether and you (a) do whatever you have to to succeed and (b) accept that it's going to be a slow and steady affair. I never got round to trying out these achievements (still imagine I will one day, but who knows) but if I did I'd rest spam as much as needed (I'll probably use a Chanter so not as much as a Wizard would have to).

[whiskiz]

It's not about what is objectively better or worse. This is a complex matter and both approaches have cons and pros that might apply or not apply to a player. I said that from a designer's point of view per-rest is a nightmare. I also don't have any problems with the change to per-encounter per se although I like the per-rest system because it makes certain things easier - for example it's a lot easier to solo as a caster if you have lots of per-rest spells (and can get resting supplies very easily) compared to one who "only" has few per-encounter spells.

 

It's about the attitude and tone with which one's opinion gets posted. And of course you are entitled to have your own opinion no matter how weird it might be (in this case it's not weird obviously - just a bit different from mine which is totally fine).

 

But if you say: "How can anybody eat pizza? It's bad! It's so unhealthy! Can't you see it? *facepalm*" you are indirectly insulting everybody who likes pizza.

 

It is exactly about what's objectively better or worse. This has been my point all along.

 

Per rest restricts players to only using low level spells or auto attacking 80% of combat - boring and simple combat.

 

Then you blow all your big stuff on hard/boss fights and faceroll - no real challenge once you know what you're doing.

 

Which also made the game completely imbalanced.

 

It's also tedious having to go repeatedly rest, more commonly on harder difficulties.

 

It in no way adds anything beneficial - there's no strategy nor skill involved because you can rest almost anywhere, any time.

 

That is all objectively worse. You may prefer it, enjoy that style more - but it is still objectively worse.

 

Boring, imbalanced, tedious, severe character restriction, while being able to just run off and rest any time so there being no point in that restriction/mechanic - is completely worse. Those are objectively bad gameplay designs, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

Best case senario, it would have been an alright mechanic if it was enforced properly - but when you could again go rest almost anywhere, any time, it was an imbalanced gimmicky tedious needless thing to have to keep doing and added absolutely nothing positive to the game.

 

So the idea of it, a decent concept, but what we actually got in PoE 1 - a bad system.

Edited May 11, 2018 by whiskiz

[Phyriel]

 

 

 P.S Glad most people and even the devs understand how the mechanic was terrible and needed to go. I again can't wait until PotD is finished properly and we need to use everything every fight, just to survive, where you can't just rely on knowing which fights are easy and then saving OP spells for anything with any challenge that comes along to faceroll it. Or having "meta knowledge" as some call it.

 

 

 

About people, yet again I guess I'll repeat after Boeroer again... maybe with enough repeating you will understand it... subjective:P about devs doing it this way? It laid foundation for them to balance the game easier, that's about it. You totally skip the RPG element of how classes feel and play, wizard that just reload his full repertoire every fight feels against generic class fantasy that's my main point. I agree with you tho that with per rest if you choose to exploit it and overkill everything by using your best **** each fight is stupid, I was playing differently aka saving as much as possible (not because of anxiety or avoiding resting but because it made me immersed into wizard class more) I had that choice u know? with per encounter once potd gets tuned you'll end up with meta gaming and everyone will play their wizards the same meta way which is kinda meh imo. 

 

P.s Not to mention that sooner or later people will exploit reseting combat one way or another and getting their spells reset.