Monk - To multiclass or not

[Winterheart]

Given that a unarmed monks damage is tied to their PL would it be ideal to run a dps monk as a single class, rather than multiclassing? The role I had in mind is as a melee damage dealer/bruiser with the Shattered Pillars subclass.

 

For multiclass options I had either Soul Blade or Devoted in mind. As for party composition I am also planning to run Eder as a maintank and Pallegina as a offtank and melee buffer.

[Judicator]

Well, they don't HAVE to use fists. In fact, in PoE weapons eventually outclassed monk fists due to enchantments so it's better to use a weapon.

[OrKToS]

i can't tell for sure. but Druid Shifter works fine with monk. beast form generate wounds and can use monks abilities. But to compare multiclasss vs singleclass we need to know high end abilities first, it can change everything. 

[Skazz]

As I have no idea how proficiency selections work right now, can you multiclass Monk/Devoted and pick fists as your supercharged mastery?

[AndreaColombo]

As I have no idea how proficiency selections work right now, can you multiclass Monk/Devoted and pick fists as your supercharged mastery?

 

As of the current beta, everyone gets fist proficiency automatically (which means Devoted get two proficiencies in total.)

[Skazz]

 

As I have no idea how proficiency selections work right now, can you multiclass Monk/Devoted and pick fists as your supercharged mastery?

 

 

As of the current beta, everyone gets fist proficiency automatically (which means Devoted get two proficiencies in total.)

So you become Devoted in fists no matter what? Huh.

 

Anyhow, thank you for the answer!

[Raven Darkholme]

Well, they don't HAVE to use fists. In fact, in PoE weapons eventually outclassed monk fists due to enchantments so it's better to use a weapon.

Long Pain Fists do more damage than Firebrand, Firebrand does more damage than any non summoned weapon by far.

(In Poe 1)

[BijaT]

Well, they don't HAVE to use fists. In fact, in PoE weapons eventually outclassed monk fists due to enchantments so it's better to use a weapon.

Maby if you built your monk wrong. I did 30-40dmg per hit end game and i hardly can see you get that with dual dagger (same speed) also acc was alot higher with fists. I tested a few 2h and a few of them came to same dmg numbers but thats 1hit vs 2hits and slow vs fast. You also coud turned your monk into a ranged char (not sure that ability will come back in deadfire tho). 

[Boeroer]

Or maybe if you build your monk wrong.

 

With dual dual durganized annihilation sabres or Bittercut you can do more damage than with fists, not to speak of dual Drawn in Spring. Just because of the lashes (and wounding) and the increased crit damage and speed (of durgan steel).

 

Also monk with fists suffer from a bug(?): the ACC bonus of Transcendent Suffering is not used for special attacks like Force of Anguish or Torment's Reach - which is a bummer.

 

But of course you'd have to invest your precious resources for that - so I think most of the time you are fine with fists. Spares resources and is viable from start to finish.

 

Long Pain fists are totally crazy because their base damage scales, they don't get a flat damage bonus like Transc. Suffering.

But they suffer the same bug with the ACC.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[Winterheart]

Well, they don't HAVE to use fists. In fact, in PoE weapons eventually outclassed monk fists due to enchantments so it's better to use a weapon.

 

I very much prefer playing a unarmed monk. It fits the fantasy better imo. Also I not quite convinced that weapons outclassed unarmed attack. They may have had bigger number for individual attacks, but the speed of the fists are (almost) unmatched. Fists may be even stronger in PoE2 as it is linked to your power level and would scale better for a pure monk.

[Winterheart]

Or maybe if you build your monk wrong.

 

With dual dual durganized annihilation sabres or Bittercut you can do more damage than with fists, not to speak of dual Drawn in Spring. Just because of the lashes (and wounding) and the increased crit damage and speed (of durgan steel).

 

Also monk with fists suffer from a bug(?): the ACC bonus of Transcendent Suffering is not used for special attacks like Force of Anguish or Torment's Reach - which is a bummer.

 

But of course you'd have to invest your precious resources for that - so I think most of the time you are fine with fists. Spares resources and is viable from start to finish.

 

Long Pain fists are totally crazy because their base damage scales, they don't get a flat damage bonus like Transc. Suffering.

But they suffer the same bug with the ACC.

Currently working on a monk I plan to import into PoE2. I may try the Bittercut build. Was not aware of that bug, that is a shame :/

[Raven Darkholme]

@Boeroer

 

But there is no reason to not use Long Pain fists, so the arguments against normal fists don't really count.

And before you get Long Pain (level 7) normal fists still do way more than early game weapons.

My solo monk has dual bittercut in 2nd slot for crush immune blights and it is always a lot less damage then long pain, but i'm not even max level (14 I think) so the fists will get a lil more damage while bittercut will remain the same.

edit:

Bittercut 19-27, long Pain 21-31 base at level 14

Edited May 2, 2018 by Raven Darkholme

[KDubya]

The two powerlevel difference between single and multi will get you +15% damage. +4 accuracy, and +1 penetration. Plus you'll get more monk abilities and get access faster.

 

Fists do higher average damage than the slow one handers and attack at the speed of fast one handers. So going fists is both great thematically and from a game mechanics standpoint.

 

If you are going to use weapons its probably better to go multi or even skip monk altogether. 

 

The powerful combos I'd say are:

• Shattered Pillar single class Nature Godlike for an easy +2 powerlevel boost that'll ad another +15% damage, +1 pen and +4 accuracy
• Shattered Pillar/Soul Blade - soul whip +40% damage, soul annihilation, weapon penetration passive, a few cipher powers
• Shattered Pillar/Paladin - Bleak Walker, Gold Pact or Kind Wayfarer - FoD, LoH, Gilded Enmity, auras and good on kill effects
• Shattered Pillar/ Devoted - cleave cheese and Disciplined Strikes
• Shattered Pillar/Trickster - illusion spells for extra defense, sneak attack, deep wounds
• Shattered Pillar/Berserker - Clarity of Agony clears your confusion, rage, on kill effects, carnage and lots of other good stuff
• Shattered Pillar/Wizard - spells for defense
• Shattered Pillar/Priest of Wael - illusion spells for defense and priest buffs
• Shattered Pillar/Skald - fast attacks with good accuracy for more crits and more chants, all the normal chanter greatness

Anything that gets you a big deflection boost will synergize nicely with Dance of Death for +12 accuracy and you'll generate wounds by causing damage activating rooting pain while spamming torments reach.

 

There are entirely too many interesting class combos . I'll never get around to playing even 10% of them  

[Voss]

Personally, I'm leaning towards shattered pillars trickster and finding as many possible ways of spamming attacks- two weapon style, swift strikes (swift flurry+ dirty fighting+stunning blow), trickster defense buff+ persistent distraction+ riposte, rooting pain, etc.

 

That all the rogue attacks are full attacks is a major bonus for a two weapon user. Add in alchemy and a lot of potion\poison use (really going to push myself to use consumables). Going to try to focus on daggers over fists, but we will see how that goes.

[Boeroer]

@Boeroer

 

But there is no reason to not use Long Pain fists, so the arguments against normal fists don't really count.

And before you get Long Pain (level 7) normal fists still do way more than early game weapons.

My solo monk has dual bittercut in 2nd slot for crush immune blights and it is always a lot less damage then long pain, but i'm not even max level (14 I think) so the fists will get a lil more damage while bittercut will remain the same.

edit:

Bittercut 19-27, long Pain 21-31 base at level 14

Although I'm a big fan of the Long Pain there are of cours reasons to not use them (in certain situations or with certain builds):

 

- no ACC bonus with abilities

- quite long summoning time

- mediocre duration

- needs wounds that you have to aquire first

- crush only

- no Turning Wheel bonus (that's up to 60% multiplicative damage)

- no engagement slots (ranged weapon)

- no Savage Attack

- no Enervating Blows

 

If those are important for your build/playstyle (e.g. solo/party?) everybody has to decide for themselves. The damage itself - especially with stuff like Merciless Hand and other dmg mods - is quite awesome. It's also awesome that it works with all melee abilities despite being a ranged weapon.

 

The statement was that fists (Transcendent Suffering) do more damage than weapons and I think that's not generally true. A decent and viable weapon choice of course, but not a no-brainer.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[Takolin]

You can always start out as a fist monk as in the beginning of the game, fists will probably be a no brainer.

If towards the middle/end of the game, weapons are a lot better, it'll be an easy switch if you don't go fists for RP reasons (with possibly a respec if required).

Not sure if you can change race as well as stats/talents/...

[Boeroer]

I don't know if they are a lot better, but I think they have more potential in the late game due to attack speed, more/higher crits and lashes.

[KDubya]

You can always put one weapon in your left hand and use your fist in your right. Best of both worlds!

 

Protip - make it a dagger and you can activate the modal for a deflection boost

[Winterheart]

The two powerlevel difference between single and multi will get you +15% damage. +4 accuracy, and +1 penetration. Plus you'll get more monk abilities and get access faster.

 

Fists do higher average damage than the slow one handers and attack at the speed of fast one handers. So going fists is both great thematically and from a game mechanics standpoint.

 

If you are going to use weapons its probably better to go multi or even skip monk altogether. 

 

The powerful combos I'd say are:

• Shattered Pillar single class Nature Godlike for an easy +2 powerlevel boost that'll ad another +15% damage, +1 pen and +4 accuracy
• Shattered Pillar/Soul Blade - soul whip +40% damage, soul annihilation, weapon penetration passive, a few cipher powers
• Shattered Pillar/Paladin - Bleak Walker, Gold Pact or Kind Wayfarer - FoD, LoH, Gilded Enmity, auras and good on kill effects
• Shattered Pillar/ Devoted - cleave cheese and Disciplined Strikes
• Shattered Pillar/Trickster - illusion spells for extra defense, sneak attack, deep wounds
• Shattered Pillar/Berserker - Clarity of Agony clears your confusion, rage, on kill effects, carnage and lots of other good stuff
• Shattered Pillar/Wizard - spells for defense
• Shattered Pillar/Priest of Wael - illusion spells for defense and priest buffs
• Shattered Pillar/Skald - fast attacks with good accuracy for more crits and more chants, all the normal chanter greatness

Anything that gets you a big deflection boost will synergize nicely with Dance of Death for +12 accuracy and you'll generate wounds by causing damage activating rooting pain while spamming torments reach.

 

There are entirely too many interesting class combos . I'll never get around to playing even 10% of them

A nature godlike Shattered Pillars/Devoted looks using unarmed attacks looks like a very powerful combo, as does the high dex Skald build to maximize phrases. May need to experiment a bit with those.

 

For weapon using monk multiclass options I am leaning heavily against the Soul Blade or Bleak Walker combos. Seeing the talking sword added I may end up going for a weapon build.

 

This game really has too many interesting options..

Edited May 3, 2018 by Winterheart

[malchiorita]

The two powerlevel difference between single and multi will get you +15% damage. +4 accuracy, and +1 penetration. Plus you'll get more monk abilities and get access faster.

 

Fists do higher average damage than the slow one handers and attack at the speed of fast one handers. So going fists is both great thematically and from a game mechanics standpoint.

 

If you are going to use weapons its probably better to go multi or even skip monk altogether.

 

The powerful combos I'd say are:

• Shattered Pillar single class Nature Godlike for an easy +2 powerlevel boost that'll ad another +15% damage, +1 pen and +4 accuracy
• Shattered Pillar/Soul Blade - soul whip +40% damage, soul annihilation, weapon penetration passive, a few cipher powers
• Shattered Pillar/Paladin - Bleak Walker, Gold Pact or Kind Wayfarer - FoD, LoH, Gilded Enmity, auras and good on kill effects
• Shattered Pillar/ Devoted - cleave cheese and Disciplined Strikes
• Shattered Pillar/Trickster - illusion spells for extra defense, sneak attack, deep wounds
• Shattered Pillar/Berserker - Clarity of Agony clears your confusion, rage, on kill effects, carnage and lots of other good stuff
• Shattered Pillar/Wizard - spells for defense
• Shattered Pillar/Priest of Wael - illusion spells for defense and priest buffs
• Shattered Pillar/Skald - fast attacks with good accuracy for more crits and more chants, all the normal chanter greatness

Anything that gets you a big deflection boost will synergize nicely with Dance of Death for +12 accuracy and you'll generate wounds by causing damage activating rooting pain while spamming torments reach.

 

There are entirely too many interesting class combos . I'll never get around to playing even 10% of them

What about dual wielding helwalker/kind wayfarer? If i got it right, white flames scales with MIG, so that could help with the extra damage you receive.

[Boeroer]

Yes, the AoE also scales with INT. So that combo could be good - in theory. At 10 wounds you are also down very quickly. Maybe stuff like Exhalted Endurance and Lay on Hands will help.

[Madscientist]

@Boeroer

 

But there is no reason to not use Long Pain fists, so the arguments against normal fists don't really count.

And before you get Long Pain (level 7) normal fists still do way more than early game weapons.

My solo monk has dual bittercut in 2nd slot for crush immune blights and it is always a lot less damage then long pain, but i'm not even max level (14 I think) so the fists will get a lil more damage while bittercut will remain the same.

edit:

Bittercut 19-27, long Pain 21-31 base at level 14

 

Well, on top of what boeroer already said, bittercut uses the best of 2 damage types, the damage is increased by spirit of decay ( works because it is corrode/slash damage in that order, does not work for weapons that deal physical/elemental damage like durance staff) and you have a 30% lash.

 

My suggestion:

- weapon slot 1: unarmed for crush damage

- weapon slot 2: dual wield swords ( slash/pierce damage). Maybe sword+shield if you want a more defensive alternative.

 

In PoE2 penetration vs AR has a very big effect. With 2 weapon sets you can deal any physical type of damage and you can summon a ranged weapon if you want ( long pain fist, can use all special attacks but its crush only). No need to waste a talent for more weapon slots.

I asume the acc loss for special attacks with fists is a bug that will be fixed. Was this already posted in the bug forum?

Edited May 3, 2018 by Madscientist

[Boeroer]

It was so in PoE. I didn't test if this is still the case in Deadfire.

[Madscientist]

It was so in PoE. I didn't test if this is still the case in Deadfire.

 You talk about the fact that monk special attacks do not use the transcendent suffering bonus for unarmed attacks, I guess.

 

If it is in PoE2 ( I did not test it ) we should report it as bug.

The enchantment of a weapon ( acc and damage ) is used in PoE1+2 when you perform monl special attacks with a weapon, I guess. ( I did not test it. )

[Boeroer]

I meant the ACC bonus of Novice's and Transcendent Suffering not working with abilites, yes.

 

Still didn't test it in Deafire though.