All lash ability/spell need some tune/bug fixing

[dunehunter]

1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR, which makes stack different lash not that effective against high DR enemies. In DF, this is totally different because there is no DR, lash becomes extremely powerful, or a bit too powerful. So I suggest to nerf all lash based abilities a bit. Also there some bug with priest spiritual weapon too, either lash is missing or the number is incorrect with weapon info.

 

2) should lash affect spells too? If some abilities can offers lashes that affect spells, it gonna provide good synergies. Like the PoE1 monk build that do damage through battle-forge, flame shield and lash.

Edited April 9, 2018 by dunehunter

[THCRaven]

1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR, which makes stack different lash not that effective against high DR enemies. In DF, this is totally different because there is no DR, lash becomes extremely powerful, or a bit too powerful. So I suggest to nerf all lash based abilities a bit. Also there some bug with priest spiritual weapon too, either lash is missing or the number is incorrect with weapon info.

 

2) should lash affect spells too? If some abilities can offers lashes that affect spells, it gonna provide good synergies. Like the PoE1 monk build that do damage through battle-forge, flame shield and lash.

Fireball with Ice lash ? xD it's not consistent with the system imo, in fantasy and high fantasy I've seen enchanted weapons and weapon enchantments but not spell enchantment.

[dunehunter]

 

1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR, which makes stack different lash not that effective against high DR enemies. In DF, this is totally different because there is no DR, lash becomes extremely powerful, or a bit too powerful. So I suggest to nerf all lash based abilities a bit. Also there some bug with priest spiritual weapon too, either lash is missing or the number is incorrect with weapon info.

 

2) should lash affect spells too? If some abilities can offers lashes that affect spells, it gonna provide good synergies. Like the PoE1 monk build that do damage through battle-forge, flame shield and lash.

Fireball with Ice lash ? xD it's not consistent with the system imo, in fantasy and high fantasy I've seen enchanted weapons and weapon enchantments but not spell enchantment.

Eternal flame does add lash to spells, so you will see flamed version of mind blades and etc. And I’m pretty sure someone here like the idea.

[Boeroer]

I think that's the reason why stuff like FoD was nerfed from 50% to 30%.

[MadDemiurg]

Spell enchantment = metamagic.

 

Currently there's too few things that boost spell damage, making it quite weak compared to weapon damage.

 

We can of course add new things to boost it, but if all lash buffs work with spells we won't have to, plus it would add some new possibilities for multiclass builds.

 

I would also allow sneak attacking for single target spells.

[hilfazer]

1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR

 

Because base damage had to bypass DR.

In PoE2 base damage has to bypass AR just like lashes. Or am i wrong and lashes don't care about AR?

 

FoD is a winner not in PoE2 but in 1 (unless lashes ignore AR...). It does 50% of base damage but doesn't have to go through 50% DR, just 25%.

[AndreaColombo]

In Deadfire, that I know of, elemental lashes are checked separately against the relevant elemental AR.

[dunehunter]

 

1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR

 

Because base damage had to bypass DR.

In PoE2 base damage has to bypass AR just like lashes. Or am i wrong and lashes don't care about AR?

 

FoD is a winner not in PoE2 but in 1 (unless lashes ignore AR...). It does 50% of base damage but doesn't have to go through 50% DR, just 25%.

 

 

Multiple source of lash has to calculate DR seperately in PoE 1, and there are a lot more abilities has lash, Imo they should all be balanced.

[hilfazer]

 

Multiple source of lash has to calculate DR seperately in PoE 1

 

 

And now each lash has to go through AR.

Sorry, i fail to see how current armor system is more advantageous to lashes than previous one unless armor gets penetrated all the time but that would be a much broader issue.

[dunehunter]

 

Multiple source of lash has to calculate DR seperately in PoE 1

 

And now each lash has to go through AR.

Sorry, i fail to see how current armor system is more advantageous to lashes than previous one unless armor gets penetrated all the time but that would be a much broader issue.

In old system penetration doesn’t affect lash, that’s a inherent disadvantage.

 

You weapon penetration could not help your lash to bypass DR, but in DF your lash penetration is equal to your weapon, to help you get through AR. So in PoE 1 no matter how high your penetration is, your lash will be severely deducted by high DR.

 

That’s why all lash abilities feels powerful in current system so they need a global nerf compare to PoE 1.

Edited April 15, 2018 by dunehunter

[AndreaColombo]

I'm not sure I follow.

 

In PoE a lash would apply 25% of your damage against 25% of the enemy's elemental DR, using the same DR bypass value as your main weapon; in Deadfire, a lash goes against the relevant elemental AR using the same AP value as your main weapon.

 

It's a consistent translation of lashes from the old system to the new one. If lashes call for a nerf, then so does regular weapon damage on the grounds that it works in the exact same way. But I don't think a nerf is called for at all. Underpenetration already leads to reduced damage and elemental lashes can underpenetrate even if your main damage doesn't, because they are checked separately.

[dunehunter]

I'm not sure I follow.

 

In PoE a lash would apply 25% of your damage against 25% of the enemy's elemental DR, using the same DR bypass value as your main weapon;

If I understand the old system correctly, I don’t think DR bypass of weapon will also be used by lash, for example estoc, penetration modal won’t affect lash.

[AndreaColombo]

Been a while since I played PoE so it’s possible I’m misremembering.

[Boeroer]

DR bypass doesn't apply to lashes in PoE.

 

Thus, things like FoD + Intense Flames + Burning Lash on a blunderbuss are a bad idea if the enemies' DR is high, no matter the DR bypass you were able to stack (i mean if the enemy dies from the pierce damage then who cares, right? Just saying... ).

Edited April 15, 2018 by Boeroer

[djinnxy]

Penetration:

Modified the Penetration system slightly, along with how Penetration displays in the mouse-over tooltip in combat.

 

When your Penetration is below the target's Armor, there is now a gradual reduction in damage. The current values are (and may be tweaked as we play with them a bit):

• -1 Pen = 75% Damage
  
• -2 Pen = 50% Damage
  
• -3 or more Pen = 25% Damage
  

It's still 100% damage up until you are at double Pen, and then 130% damage from there.

 

Along with this change, Penetration will now ONLY display on the combat tooltip when you are either BELOW Pen, or you don't yet know the target's Armor value for the damage type you'll deal.

 

This is taken from the patch notes. Afaik this didn't exist in poe. I like the way it works. It's possible that's been tweeked since and I missed it...