Neverwinter Nights 2: Enhanced Edition

[casa]

This is not a suggestion, this is begging. I already posted this in the NWN2 section, but I doubt anyone ever goes there anymore. After playing a bit of Beamdog's NWN1 EE I loaded up my old module (planned PW) that I gave up on some years ago and noticed how much I miss the game, the multiplayer and the world building. NWN2 was really a diamond in the rough, so much potential but so many bugs, bad luck, unfinished things. The last straw for me was the Gamespy shutdown, I had no hope to get any players anyway so threw it all in the bin. Well, since NWN1 just came back from the dead, sort of, there just has to be a NWN2 Enhanced edition. Period. I want it, I need it, and the world needs the NWN-style multiplayer, there's no other game that does it anymore. My beloved favorite developer, I'd kiss your feet if you'd even consider just giving it to Beamdog or whoever is willing, I'll include the ankles if you do it yourself. I'd be willing to pay even for a bugfix edition, with reenabled master servers and reintroduction to Steam, so some new players can experience this gem.

 

 

[Heijoushin]

Haha, I also loved NWN2, but I don't think anything is going to happen around here. You should probably make your pleas at the Beamdog forums.

[Wormerine]

The question is: who has rights to NWN2? I doubt it’s obsidian.

[Bartimaeus]

Judging by the way it's haphazardly switched between being available and unavailable on digital retailers over the years since its release, it seems that the corporations involved don't know, either. Would not expect an Enhanced Edition anytime soon for that reason alone.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[casa]

The question is: who has rights to NWN2? I doubt it’s obsidian.

 

Well, Beamdog said "Ask Obsidian", so I did.

[Amentep]

IIRC, Obsidian heavily modified the Aurora Engine (dubbed Electron for NWN2).  My wild, speculative, no-basis-in-anything-but-supposition guess is, if Beamdog is punting questions to Obsidian, that Beamdog would need access to Obsidian's developer side Electron code to be able to accomplish a NWN2:EE.

 

Since Beamdog seem to have a relationship with Hasbro, I can't see it being an IP issue (but what do I know?)

[Wormerine]

I am all for it, as long as they do not add their own content.
 

[Zoraptor]

IIRC, Obsidian heavily modified the Aurora Engine (dubbed Electron for NWN2).  My wild, speculative, no-basis-in-anything-but-supposition guess is, if Beamdog is punting questions to Obsidian, that Beamdog would need access to Obsidian's developer side Electron code to be able to accomplish a NWN2:EE.

 

Since Beamdog seem to have a relationship with Hasbro, I can't see it being an IP issue (but what do I know?)

 

Yeah, it won't be an IP issue on the game content, it will be: "Game Technology and Toolset © 2007 Obsidian Entertainment Inc." (from the MotB box hence 2007) which would be the problem. Even if Hasbro could give permission for a remake it should require Obsidian's permission to make engine alterations. They might be legally able to back port the content to Aurora or to another engine to end run any Obsidian permissions, but that seems extremely unlikely practically.

[kanisatha]

Regardless of licensing issues, I very much doubt Beamdog has any interest in a NwN2:EE. The reason they're doing NwN:EE is because Beamdog CEO Trent Oster has a personal love for that game and sees it as "his baby" from his time at Bioware. By contrast he has openly stated he fundamentally disagreed with the direction that Obsidian took with NwN2 and sees NwN2 as an inferior game to NwN. So NwN:EE is very personal to Oster.

[ShadySands]

I am all for it, as long as they do not add their own content.

 

I'm actually of the exact opposite opinion. I already own the diamond/platinum/whatever else versions of these games and would only buy the games again if it really added something new. Something substantial. Better UI scaling or whatever isn't enough.

[Daled]

Regardless of licensing issues, I very much doubt Beamdog has any interest in a NwN2:EE. The reason they're doing NwN:EE is because Beamdog CEO Trent Oster has a personal love for that game and sees it as "his baby" from his time at Bioware. By contrast he has openly stated he fundamentally disagreed with the direction that Obsidian took with NwN2 and sees NwN2 as an inferior game to NwN. So NwN:EE is very personal to Oster.

 

I would really like to know in which way he disagrees with Obsidian, NwN2 certainly had its problems but I'm pretty sure that anyone consider it a better game than the first one.

[algroth]

 

Regardless of licensing issues, I very much doubt Beamdog has any interest in a NwN2:EE. The reason they're doing NwN:EE is because Beamdog CEO Trent Oster has a personal love for that game and sees it as "his baby" from his time at Bioware. By contrast he has openly stated he fundamentally disagreed with the direction that Obsidian took with NwN2 and sees NwN2 as an inferior game to NwN. So NwN:EE is very personal to Oster.

 

I would really like to know in which way he disagrees with Obsidian, NwN2 certainly had its problems but I'm pretty sure that anyone consider it a better game than the first one.

 

 

In my experience people usually view the campaign as better but the editor as worse (I don't know if this applies to a majority but it has applied to a majority of the opinions I've read/heard/seen). I guess it could be argued that Neverwinter Nights 2 placed more emphasis on the campaign over the editor and that could be a fundamental disagreement he could have with regards to the original. All the same I agree that Neverwinter Nights 2 is much, much better.

[kanisatha]

 

 

Regardless of licensing issues, I very much doubt Beamdog has any interest in a NwN2:EE. The reason they're doing NwN:EE is because Beamdog CEO Trent Oster has a personal love for that game and sees it as "his baby" from his time at Bioware. By contrast he has openly stated he fundamentally disagreed with the direction that Obsidian took with NwN2 and sees NwN2 as an inferior game to NwN. So NwN:EE is very personal to Oster.

 

I would really like to know in which way he disagrees with Obsidian, NwN2 certainly had its problems but I'm pretty sure that anyone consider it a better game than the first one.

 

In my experience people usually view the campaign as better but the editor as worse (I don't know if this applies to a majority but it has applied to a majority of the opinions I've read/heard/seen). I guess it could be argued that Neverwinter Nights 2 placed more emphasis on the campaign over the editor and that could be a fundamental disagreement he could have with regards to the original. All the same I agree that Neverwinter Nights 2 is much, much better.

Oh absolutely. I also agree NwN2 is waaaaay better than NwN. I think the main thing for him is that NwN was a non-party-based game where the emphasis was on multiplayer/co-op gaming. Emphasis also on people playing in a persistent world setting. It's these gaming elements Oster really loves. He agrees that NwN's OC was not particularly good, but he doesn't care, because players playing in a co-op way in fan-created modules in a persistent world is what he loves because he considers it to be the truest experience to a table-top gaming experience. You can google Trent Oster and NwN and several interviews and articles will pop up where he talks about all this stuff including about his days at Bioware developing NwN.

 

But these elements are exactly what I hate personally, and the party-based single-player experience is the one non-negotiable thing I want in my RPGs.

[Wormerine]

Yeah, NWN is more of a toolbox than a game. I, personally, have little interest in user created content. While online actual RPG system seems like a neat idea, it’s not something I have any intend of trying. NWN2 was closer to game, which made me beat NWN campaign, in spite of not enjoying it one bit - IE games. As such NWN2 was for me, a great sequel after a disaster, though it comes more to what I want from the game, than quality of the game itself.

 

That said, moving to 3D at the time was a mistake. It looked hideous, it still looks hedious. Even NWN2 still looks and plays worse than IE games.

[Bartimaeus]

I could forgive them for their aesthetics aging poorly - as most early 3D games have - but the real sin was in how it and NWN2 (and Dragon Age: Origins to a degree as well) played. They're so clunky. Screwing around with the camera all the bloody time is so miserable, especially whenever you're trying to switch between characters which is constantly resetting the camera, a movement system that feels like it's alternating between being on ice and being in a swamp, buttons that randomly don't fire or are sticky or slow to fire...and then the fact that you have so many buttons on top of it, many of them thrown into a horribly wonky right click radial menu...oh my word, it is so difficult to play either NWNs when it feels like I am just constantly fighting with the game's UI and controls. The IE games' perspectives, UIs, and controls are antiquated, but they work efficiently for the most part (with the major exception of having too many spells), especially if you master (or rebind) the Fx keys. No screwing around with the camera, either - one flat perspective is bliss in its simplicity in comparison. I was never able to get comfortable with either of the NWNs, even after years of playing them. (e): Also, it doesn't help that the combat systems in all the 3D games feel terribly slow-placed (...in addition to being mildly to moderately unresponsive in general). BG1 suffers from this as well for the first few levels, but not so much once you start hitting around level 4-5, and certainly not at all in BG2 - you butcher weaker mobs in seconds, and a group of stronger ones can butcher one of your characters in about the same time.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[Amentep]

It's these gaming elements Oster really loves. He agrees that NwN's OC was not particularly good, but he doesn't care, because players playing in a co-op way in fan-created modules in a persistent world is what he loves because he considers it to be the truest experience to a table-top gaming experience.

 

Was he the person who wanted NWN to ship without an official campaign at all? I seem to recall that issue raised a serious rift between Black Isle/Interplay and Bioware at the time. When development on NWN started it was said that it would have a a deep single player game you could port your BG character to to continue their story and also have a DM kit that'd allow you to do all these wonderful co-op things.

 

Then they didn't talk about the single player campaign for a long time. Eventually there was some talk of there being no official campaign at all, which upset a lot of people and when released the one we got seemed like it was created as an afterthought.

[kanisatha]

 

It's these gaming elements Oster really loves. He agrees that NwN's OC was not particularly good, but he doesn't care, because players playing in a co-op way in fan-created modules in a persistent world is what he loves because he considers it to be the truest experience to a table-top gaming experience.

 

Was he the person who wanted NWN to ship without an official campaign at all? I seem to recall that issue raised a serious rift between Black Isle/Interplay and Bioware at the time. When development on NWN started it was said that it would have a a deep single player game you could port your BG character to to continue their story and also have a DM kit that'd allow you to do all these wonderful co-op things.

 

Then they didn't talk about the single player campaign for a long time. Eventually there was some talk of there being no official campaign at all, which upset a lot of people and when released the one we got seemed like it was created as an afterthought.

I don't know but it's entirely possible. He was the lead dev on NwN. I myself walked away from NwN very early on in its development and did not follow anything about it because I was so very invested in the BG and IwD games (and so very pissed at the death of BIS). I only very grudgingly bought the NwN diamond edition many years later at a time period (late-00s) when I didn't have any games I liked available to play. Man, that was a very depressing period in my life!

[kanisatha]

Relatedly, you may have heard that former Bioware BG2 and DA writer Dave Gaider quit Beamdog recently after only about a year working there as their creative director and lead writer. Well, my personal take is that this was because Beamdog's orientation for their new-IP 5th edition D&D game they've been working on for over two years recently changed. Originally, the game was to have been a 5e successor to the BG games, and Gaider was hired specifically to lead this project. This was very clear and obvious from the many posts Gaider made on the Beamdog forums. But then, very suddenly, Oster managed to get his hands on the NwN license which he had been passionately seeking for a long time but previously had been refused. Once this happened, Oster's calculus immediately changed, along with the orientation he wanted for Beamdog's new original game - a 5e successor to NwN rather than to the BG games. But this was not what Gaider was interested in working on, so he walked away. Many have been unhappy with me pushing this view over on the Beamdog forums, but I'm rather confident I'll be proven right in due course (though I wish I turn out to be wrong).

[Bartimaeus]

...Honestly, a NWN sequel makes way, way more sense than a BG sequel ever would have.

[SonicMage117]

If I could go back in time and re-introduce myself to NWN2, I would but no thanks to the Enhanced Edition. There's no point in me for re-visiting.

[casa]

I think the audience for NWN2 is pretty much split into those who prefer singleplayer and the multiplayer ones, maybe with the people enjoying custom made modules somewhere in between. I often read very strong opinions from one or the other side. For me, NWN(2) was probably the only good multiplayer and roleplay experience I've ever had, something on a level that is not possible in MMOs and won't ever come back because it makes no sense for a developer from a financial point of view. For the official campaign I couldn't care less, even if I enjoyed MotB I would probably never touch the singleplayer side of NWN2 again.

[Fluffle]

...Honestly, a NWN sequel makes way, way more sense than a BG sequel ever would have.

 

Not really. Not with the MMORPG Neverwinter.

 

Don't be mistaken. The MMORPG Neverwinter is nothing like NWN or NWN2 at all. And if you love them, then you'll probably hate the MMORPG.

 

But the fact is that the MMORPG tells the story of Neverwinter and Icewind Dale in the current age of the Forgotten Realms.

So if you would like to know what happens in Icewind Dale and Neverwinter in the current timeline, that's what the MMORPG tells you.

 

An NWN3 or IWD3 would be more or less redundant so long as the MMOPRG is running. At least if they were set in the same time.

[kanisatha]

 

...Honestly, a NWN sequel makes way, way more sense than a BG sequel ever would have.

 

Not really. Not with the MMORPG Neverwinter.

 

Don't be mistaken. The MMORPG Neverwinter is nothing like NWN or NWN2 at all. And if you love them, then you'll probably hate the MMORPG.

 

But the fact is that the MMORPG tells the story of Neverwinter and Icewind Dale in the current age of the Forgotten Realms.

So if you would like to know what happens in Icewind Dale and Neverwinter in the current timeline, that's what the MMORPG tells you.

 

An NWN3 or IWD3 would be more or less redundant so long as the MMOPRG is running. At least if they were set in the same time.

I agree. That's why I said successor, not sequel, as in a game of the same type as NwN but having nothing to do with the NwN games. Beamdog has very strongly hinted at a brand new IP.

 

But I agree with @Bartimaeus's sentiments that a NwN successor does fill a void whereas a BG successor would be competing with PoE and the new Pathfinder cRPG. I personally would be disappointed, but many other people would be happy so good for them.

[rjshae]

 

 

Regardless of licensing issues, I very much doubt Beamdog has any interest in a NwN2:EE. The reason they're doing NwN:EE is because Beamdog CEO Trent Oster has a personal love for that game and sees it as "his baby" from his time at Bioware. By contrast he has openly stated he fundamentally disagreed with the direction that Obsidian took with NwN2 and sees NwN2 as an inferior game to NwN. So NwN:EE is very personal to Oster.

 

I would really like to know in which way he disagrees with Obsidian, NwN2 certainly had its problems but I'm pretty sure that anyone consider it a better game than the first one.

 

 

In my experience people usually view the campaign as better but the editor as worse (I don't know if this applies to a majority but it has applied to a majority of the opinions I've read/heard/seen). I guess it could be argued that Neverwinter Nights 2 placed more emphasis on the campaign over the editor and that could be a fundamental disagreement he could have with regards to the original. All the same I agree that Neverwinter Nights 2 is much, much better.

 

I've used both editors quite a bit, and I have to disagree with this opinion. The NWN2 editor is much better than the NWN editor in many ways. Unfortunately, NWN2 editor is more buggy in some respects. E.g. the character wizard crashes the editor; saved modules can become corrupted, &c. The main benefit of the NWN editor is that it uses tiles for external areas, which saves a lot of time but considerably reduces flexibility.

[micmon]

I loved the original NWN(1) and will probably pick up the EE at some point. I never played NWN2 because it was never released for Linux but I would defiantly buy it if it ever gets released on my platform of choice.