Politics Thread: Edge of Seventeen

[Guard Dog]

I doubt it would be impossible to find 16 congressmen willing to burn the Q'ran if they thought it would help them win an election.

It wouldn't even be difficult. 534 would be there lighters in hand. Heck maybe Keith Ellison would too so 535.

[Gfted1]

Would, could, should...but havent...yet.

 

Trump single handedly brought NK to the negotiating table after years of pure fail, ended their nuclear bogeyman and secured the release of three prisoners. Change my mind.  

[Guard Dog]

Would, could, should...but havent...yet.

 

Trump single handedly brought NK to the negotiating table after years of pure fail, ended their nuclear bogeyman and secured the release of three prisoners. Change my mind.

Single handedly? Mmmmm, I doubt that. He was a factor though. Kim suddenly felt like talking after visiting China and offers concessions after his nuclear test facility collapses. And the check is not in the mail yet in any case. This may be a ploy for time and nothing may come of it. Or Kim my promise the world in renege a year or two down the line. Or sooner. It's not like NK has never done that before. It's a little soon for back slapping and Nobel Prize nominations. Of course that prize is a f-----g joke anyway Le Duc Tho, Henry Kissinger, Yassir Arafat, Barack Obama are all winners and all responsible for prosecuting wars. And I do believer our old buddy Adolf from Austria-Hungary was also nominated for one. Unless that big coin is really made out of chocolate I'd tell them to keep it.

[Gfted1]

Single handedly? Mmmmm, I doubt that. He was a factor though. Kim suddenly felt like talking after visiting China and offers concessions after his nuclear test facility collapses.

 

Its probably just a case of "crazy recognizes crazy".

[Malcador]

Would, could, should...but havent...yet.

 

Trump single handedly brought NK to the negotiating table after years of pure fail, ended their nuclear bogeyman and secured the release of three prisoners. Change my mind.

Well I am sure he thinks all of that.

[Malcador]

Not really, Presidents don't do anything single handedly

Edited May 10, 2018 by Malcador

[Malcador]

Israel found the time right to light up some Iranians in Syria, I see.

[HoonDing]

"Trump single handedly"

 

Trump's tiny hands don't even amount to a single hand.

[Gfted1]

Israel found the time right to light up some Iranians in Syria, I see.

 

 

 

 

They're going to need a new slogan!

[HoonDing]

Truly bad people!

[smjjames]

Israel found the time right to light up some Iranians in Syria, I see.

 

One has to wonder if Iran was going to shoot off those missiles whether or not the Iran deal was still on due to the timing of it being so close to Trump scrapping it.

[Zoraptor]

The missiles were fired by 174th (?) Brigade, Syrian Arab Army, they even filmed themselves firing them in response to Israeli tank and artillery fire from the Golan. The Israeli military also said it was a pre-planned attack, and since Bibi landed 20 minutes before it was launched it was pretty obvious he went to Russia to ask Putin for permission for it, so it was coming days ago. Won't stop the media from reporting it as an Iranian attack starting the whole thing of course, even though they were all reporting an Israeli attack literally yesterday as well which they have forgotten about.

 

For a country that supposedly wiped out half of Syria's air defences in February Israel seems inordinately proud of getting a single pantsir as well. And for those saying that you can't shoot down missiles, this time they clearly got at least one SpikeNLOS which weighs less than a sixth of the tomahawk's warhead alone.

[Katphood]

 

In Iran, hardliners are burning the deal and the American flag.

 

 

 

Convening in Iran's parliament -- the Majlis -- conservative MPs literally set a copy of the landmark agreement on fire. They also burned the United States flag amid chants of "Death to America."

 

Bwahahaha, that's more like it! Could you imagine the full body convulsion that would take place worldwide if the US government did that?

 

That's 15 or what idiots out of 290. Somehow every news article forgets to mention that. But yes, surely they must all be the same, yadda yadda.

 

 

 

Stuff like that is pretty common actually, anybody forgot about the Netherlands MP doing this:

 

[Blarghagh]

In what ridiculous imaginary universe is that even close to remotely comparable?

 

Honestly, the most insulting thing in that video is what Iran did.

 

EDIT: For those interested in the context of this video, Iran gifted members of dutch Parliament a bag of pistachios. Except, ONLY the male ones. This is incredibly insulting to the female members, but also 50% of the human population. In response, the MP in the video said "I do not accept this gift" and threw the bag of pistachio's in the trash.

 

It is not, in any way shape or form, "stuff like that" to be compared to burning flags and agreements and chanting "death to [insert country here]" and Iran should be ashamed for having done both of these things whereas our MP did absolutely the right thing.

Edited May 11, 2018 by TrueNeutral

[Katphood]

Well, maybe someone thought they would share the pistachios.

 

But yeah, all things considered the MP is acting pretty childish for his age since this was no real attempt at insulting the women in the parliament. Maybe they thought it wasn't an appropriate thing to give to women, maybe there weren't enough pistachios or maybe they didn't knew what they where doing at all.

 

What the MP is doing though is clearly nothing more than a publicity stunt.  

Edited May 11, 2018 by Katphood

[Blarghagh]

Well, I hadn't checked this story other than the video you posted but it clearly stated all male members of parliament were given a gift, and none of the female members. If that was true, it would have clearly been an insult.

 

Looking into the story, though (I can't say this apparent "international insult and incident" made any news network I watch) it turns out that the MP in question had been misinformed about this (likely by the journalist who broke the story, considering they failed to check the facts) as only faction leaders and speakers of foreign affairs department were given the gift, including one woman. He has since admitted his error. So... problem solved?

 

Either way, even if he had done so maliciously without provocation specifically with the intent of insulting Iran, the heinous inhuman act of dumping some pistachios in the trash would STILL not be remotely close to burning flags, political agreements and chanting "death to America"? One's a bit rude, the other's one step away from declaring war.

 

Reading up on it, I did find that Iranian government, had a full hearing about this pistachio incident and labeled it "inhuman"?

[Malcador]

Death to America isn't that close to declaring war though, at this point.

[Elerond]

Death to America isn't that close to declaring war though, at this point.

 

Isn't those chanters minority in Iranian parliament? I mean that if such would mean declaration of war, then Finland and Russia would be in war currently, as there are members in Russian parliament who openly say that Finland don't have right to independency and is part of Russia and there are members in Finland's parliament that Russian owned parts of Karelia belongs to Finland and Finland should take them back with force if necessary. I mean threating and boasting with hardline views against foreign powers is quite common thing all over world to gain political points in domestic politics especially when it comes to extremist wings of parliaments/governments/etc.

[smjjames]

 

Death to America isn't that close to declaring war though, at this point.

 

Isn't those chanters minority in Iranian parliament? I mean that if such would mean declaration of war, then Finland and Russia would be in war currently, as there are members in Russian parliament who openly say that Finland don't have right to independency and is part of Russia and there are members in Finland's parliament that Russian owned parts of Karelia belongs to Finland and Finland should take them back with force if necessary. I mean threating and boasting with hardline views against foreign powers is quite common thing all over world to gain political points in domestic politics especially when it comes to extremist wings of parliaments/governments/etc.

 

 

Especially during election season.

[BruceVC]

I agree that China is in the drivers seat. Those guys just have their s**t together and dgaf what anyone else thinks. I wish we were more like them.

 

Wrt Iran, if they perform that kind of circus while in a parlimentary meeting then I don't have much hope for any "real" agreements anyway. A decade of negotiation got us this deal? Pass.

 

Would, could, should...but havent...yet.

 

Trump single handedly brought NK to the negotiating table after years of pure fail, ended their nuclear bogeyman and secured the release of three prisoners. Change my mind.

Its interesting how on several international news channels some commentators also raised the ostensible " reality " of China now bypassing the USA....its not going to happen in any meaningful way

 

China cares about itself and sustaining its own economy, they dont care about the human  rights or  a better world so we will just see a paralysis in the role of world leader 

 

I do believe in giving Trump credit for achieving global objectives but NK is a terrible example of USA success. What exactly did Trump do, insult NK with twitter comments. Who knows what motivated NK to discuss peace, the one view is after NK met with SK at the Winter games and whatever was discussed was relevant in these peace talks. Who cares really, as long as there is peace Trump can claim a political win?

 

Now Iran. No one has an issue with the moderate Iranians and this applies to our forum friend, so whatever happens I am sorry for any negative outcome . Unfortunately even though I still stand by the Nuclear deal Iran hardliners and there proxy forces  have been destabilizing several key regions in the ME

 

This includes Yemen and support for Syria. You can see that when sanctions were lifted on Iran the funding of Shia extremist  groups continued and now allies of the West ,like Saudi Arabia which do matter, are  embroiled in wars that are draining and counterproductive 

 

Guys with all due respects please do some research on the role of Saudi Arabia in the ME. They are not the enemy of a better ME and are  very important to stability of the region. For example 

 

• They can be relied on to ensure OPEC continues to provide oil
• They absolutely have been a key ally in fighting Islamic terrorism and providing information to countries like the USA since 2002/2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Saudi_Arabia#2002
• They have a new king who is actively making Saudi Arabia more progressive and inclusive of human rights 
• If the USA didnt sell them weapons then the Russians would have, so its fatuous to blame the USA for atrocities in Yemen. This is on the reality of the Shia\Sunni proxy war 

 

So in summary, Iran had a  real chance to not exacerbate the historical conflict in the region. The hardliners decided to ignore this and now they will face the backlash of an anxious Israel and Saudi Arabia which in turn have convinced Trump that the USA  has to " save the day " 

 

Iran will not win this one, so its bizarre to see people in Iran thinking this is some sort of victory. They dont seem to understand that it wasn't weakness of the USA that Obama demonstrated through endless negotiations and strange attacks of the USA   like the Marines being kidnapped 

 

 Trumps hubris will ensure military forces being moved into the region and under NO  circumstances will Iran be allowed to develop Uranium or other nuclear paraphernalia  

 

They probably assume there wont be any military  intervention like last time, this will be an egregious miscalculation 

 

Trumps bombastic nature will lead to a real bombing campaign and Iran will have there military destroyed if they try to fight back

 

Obama really tried to not get the USA involved but I guess its apparent certain countries still claim to want the USA  to " be a good friend and adhere to there strategic alliances " ( this is a euphemism for getting the USA to make the real military commitment to another war ). Gromnir should be happy as  he use to say the Obama had betrayed past alliances in the region 

 

The USA will gain another  enemy but there is some positive deliverable in the long term....if you are one of those people who wants the USA to have  a permanent presence in the ME. I dont think this makes sense as ultimately the USA always ends up being blamed for one issue or another in the region and many local people still see them as an enemy

 

Oh well, let the chips fall where they may    

Edited May 11, 2018 by BruceVC

[Gfted1]

Another enemy? It never mattered what the "moderates" wanted. As long as they are run by the current Supreme Leader, they will never be friends or allies.   They are too busy rending cloth and gnashing teeth.

[BruceVC]

Another enemy? It never mattered what the "moderates" wanted. As long as they are run by the current Supreme Leader, they will never be friends or allies.   They are too busy rending cloth and gnashing teeth.

So yes to be honest during the negotiations under Obama and even before the USA was constantly vilified  and USA flags were burned

 

This typically should have been addressed but it was  the era of " middle east fatigue " so it was ignored. This obviously just emboldened Shia influence in the region. The one consolation is that now the USA will be welcomed and encouraged   by its " friends " so at least the American forces will have proper bases 

 

But lets not kid ourselves, the USA will suffer loses as Iran will not be a pushover in the beginning. For me  I still feel Trump has been manipulated through his own ignorance and desire for recognition

 

Do you think this new war really worth it?  

[Gfted1]

I dont think we need to get involved. Israel is plenty capable of slapping them around and nobody is going for "occupation" of the country anyway.

[BruceVC]

I dont think we need to get involved. Israel is plenty capable of slapping them around and nobody is going for "occupation" of the country anyway.

Oh yes I meant to tell you,  only the USA has a certain type of advanced bomber that can penetrate the mountain fortifications that the Iranians were hiding and developing nuclear kit

 

So the involvement of the USA  had to be part of any strategy to attack Iran and destroy there nuclear sites\training sites 

 

Thats why Israel never would attack on there own 

[HoonDing]

Israel can't even get to Iran without American help.