What is the best support char?

[Madscientist]

Josh said that players rather play a mad killer than a support char.

 

in NWN2 my best char was a favoured soul who could buff the whole party and be a very good fighter (when buffed) at the same time.

So I thought about what char could be good as main char in PoE2, who helps the party a lot but who is also useful by himself.

I thought about a combination of paladin, priest or chanter.

 

- paladin + chanter (skald)

dual wielding to get crits for skald phrases

pro: passive buffs via chants and paladin auras, debuff with chanter invocations ( armor down, paralysed, charmed)

con: ?

 

- Chanter (beckoner) + priest (Wael or Eothas for buffs)

weapon + shield in the front or ranged weapons from the back row

pro: summon your personal army and buff them. and your party like crazy.

con: you do little damage yourself

 

- paladin (bleak walker) + priest (magram) (aka the obsessed zealot, like Durance it is somebody who wants to purge the world of all heretics with fire)

weapon + shield tank with lots of res

pro: you stand in the front line, protect your party and burn enemies with FoD, fan of flames, shining beacon and so on.

con: damage with weapons and magic from different stats, I focus on res for magic and tankyness

 

Which one could be the best support char for your party?

Or do you have a better idea?

 

[Boeroer]

Paladin/Beckoner with Shared Flames and Mith Fyr. Nice support (gives them all two burning lashes, heals, zealous aura...) and also is immensely helpful with his summons (who also get supported).

[Madscientist]

I have finished PoE1 with a kind wayfarer and tried to get the best result possible.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/93794-class-build-holy-warrior-of-fire-rp-ddheal-paladin/

 

He did OK and his stats were nice for talking, but his damage was unimpressive.

Eder (dual wielding resolution and bittercut) and Hiravias (shapeshifted) did much more damage by auto attacks.

 

Making a damage monster out of him would feel wrong somehow and I liked my NWN2 priest, so I thought what I could do in PoE2.

I want to Eder (swashbuckler), Aloth (pure wizard) and Takehu (Druid) in my party. Last slot could go to Pallagina (paladin/fighter) because I like to have my old party members, but I am not sure about 2 paladins in my party (she could take fighter stances when I use the acc aura.)

 

- How useful are the summons and do they get better with level (if yes, char or power level?)

I never used them in the beta, so I do not know their damage, penetration, HP, armor and so on.

When I used a chanter, it was a skald and he used the armor breaking invocation in every fight to ensure overpenetration.

 

- If summons block the path, I need to give my other chars a ranged weapon so they can hit the enemy. I want to see my wereshark biting things.

[Boeroer]

Summons scale with char level in Deadfire - which makes them useful throughout the whole game.

 

With a Beckoner you get 6 skeletons. They are small and have less health - but they hit as hard as the "normal" ones. And they hit pretty hard compared to those noodle-skeletons in PoE1.

 

With two burning lashes from Shared Flames and Mith Fyr their combined damage is actually pretty crazy. If you combine it with some AR debuff they shred most enemies pretty quickly. And on tp comes the awesome body blocking with six skeletons - which break apart into two lesser skeletons each after death! I mean in theory there yould be 12 skeletons fighting for you...

 

You can summon them behind the enemy line so that they don't get into the way of your shark.

 

Another plus as I said: the two burning lashes also apply to all the other party members which is quite powerful. It's like everyone has Flames of Devotion all the time.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Boeroer

[Frog Man]

Summons scale with char level in Deadfire - which makes them useful throughout the whole game.

 

With a Beckoner you get 6 skeletons. They are small and have less health - but they hit as hard as the "normal" ones. And they hit pretty hard compared to those noodle-skeletons in PoE1.

 

With two burning lashes from Shared Flames and Mith Fyr their combined damage is actually pretty crazy. If you combine it with some AR debuff they shred most enemies pretty quickly. And on tp comes the awesome body blocking with six skeletons - which break apart into two lesser skeletons each after death! I mean in theory there yould be 12 skeletons fighting for you...

 

You can summon them behind the enemy line so that they don't get into the way of your shark.

 

Another plus as I said: the two burning lashes also apply to all the other party members which is quite powerful. It's like everyone has Flames of Devotion all the time.

Wow dude. Will be testing thus build ASAP

[Boeroer]

It's nice but it needs levels. You get Shared Flames early enough but Mith Fyr comes a bit late for multiclass characters. Make sure to use most of your zeal for FoD in order to hold up the Shared Flames. A Kind Wayfarer can also prevent his summons from dying prematurely.

 

I used a pike with modal to "prepare" the enemies for my summons.

[dunehunter]

It's nice but it needs levels. You get Shared Flames early enough but Mith Fyr comes a bit late for multiclass characters. Make sure to use most of your zeal for FoD in order to hold up the Shared Flames. A Kind Wayfarer can also prevent his summons from dying prematurely.

 

I used a pike with modal to "prepare" the enemies for my summons.

I wonder why the other lash ablilities are not nerfed as FoD and Lightning Strike? Eternal Flame add same amount of lash as Shared Flames is weird to me.

[Boeroer]

But Shared Flames doesn't add its lash to the paladin (I guess?). So if you want to build a dps paladin and the rest of the gang is casters/support/healing/cc chars you better pick the Bangles' song.

[Gromnir]

sometimes obvious is best.  orlan or human ix plains scholar as a templar tank (kind wayfarer/priest o' eothas) will be a no lose support character.  start with 20 resolve for win. tanky templars is one o' the no nonsense builds which benefits most from the change o' might to strength.  resolve is gonna improve templar invulnerability as well as spell damage and heals.  the fod heal ain't particular robust, but with +13 base int it will cover an entire party by mid levels, assuming predictable int boost or aoe boost gear.  at low levels, +19 health x 5 party member heals (approx 100 health per fod) will be a serious life saver in many battles.  by mid levels, fod, at a mere 1 zeal cost, will be functional spammable and will no doubt be healing mid 20s x 5 party members 'cause o' predictable further boosted resolve.  sure, priestly restore is gonna be better 9 x outta 10, but having fod heals means you can use other level 1 priest powers.  (aside: sunbeam is actual a fantastic 1st level spell as it has a 15m range and causes blindness as well as damage.  use on enemy casters and ranged who is attempting to stay outta melee combat.) the upgraded lay on hands is a fantastic support power, and the templar can target self, if needed... which is only gonna be an issue in few boss battles as the paladin defense powhaz makes the templar tank near invulnerable even if they don't go the goldpact route. priest inspirations is gonna, once again, be offering most support flexibility o' any class, and no doubt minor avatar will be the unnecessary overkill for making the templar tank actual unassailable in all but a handful o' deadfire encounters. choose ix plains for the resolve boost, and the scholar background provides arcana.  both paladin and priest gets arcana as a skill bonus, so starting with +3 to arcana is pretty groovy for a support character, particular given how total powaz available is more limited for deadfire classes than poe.  whatever support essential spellike powhaz the templar don't have access to 'tween the paladin's amazing single target buffs and the priest's diverse party coverage spells can be supplemented with scrolls. is all win.  oh, and 'cause resolve will be ridiculous high, those handful o' silly powerful offensive priest spells (or scroll spells) if you choose to select any, is gonna be doing near empower kinda damage w/o the need to empower. 

 

am also liking heralds... and pretty much paladin+anything for that matter. a herald is gonna be another fantastic tanky quasi support monster.  sure, the herald will be as much a summoner or debuffer as true support, but will be extreme effective even so.

 

still, we says go obvious. go big. go win.  some other builds will be able to do one or two things exceptionally well, but templar will be valuable in any encounter and against any foe. the orlan, ixamitl plains, scholarly templar (kind wayfarer/priest o' eothas) is straightforward and simple support And tank gold.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[dunehunter]

But Shared Flames doesn't add its lash to the paladin (I guess?). So if you want to build a dps paladin and the rest of the gang is casters/support/healing/cc chars you better pick the Bangles' song.

 

Yeah but for a team of 5, shared flames adds 20% lash to 4+ characters, Mith Fyr adds 25% lash to 5+ characters, compared to eternal flame +20% lash to self and swift strike +30% lash to self, obvious choice?

 

I don't think both eternal flame and lightning strike is OP for nerfing. If the nerf is based on lash, wonder why all other lash ability is not touched.

Edited February 25, 2018 by dunehunter

[Boeroer]

Mith Fyr only adds 20%. But yes - you are right.

 

edit: Sorry! I just re-checked and it still adds 25%. Don't know why. I thought it only adds 20%. Maybe that was the case in beta1? 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[Madscientist]

about the kind wayfarer/beckoner:

- Do you need a different summon than the skelletons (+ upgrade) or is strengh in numbers the best option?

 

- I looked at the casting times: skelletons 5 sec and 12 sec duration, other summons 8 sec and 18 sec duration, most other invocations 0,5sec

That is one reason why I liked the skald with offensive spells and why I never used summons so far.

 

- I looked at the stats and it looks like the only stat you really need is int ( summon and chant linger duration, paladin aura and chant effect area increase)

My paladin in PoE1 had 16 mig, int, res and 10 for the rest

here I would go like this ( I do not like dumping stats )

str: 10 ( You use a mode that lowers damage and except FoD you do not have special weapon attacks or weapon damage boosts)

con: 10 ( You need to stay alive. With an army of skelletons in front of you it should be easy.)

dex: 14 ( reduced casting time is nice. More dex and less res in a min maxed build )

per: 10 ( You need to hit with FoD. Your weapon attacks are the only things that need to hit (except for scrolls maybe))

int: 18 ( Max this out and use items to max it further. Summons and chants should last until you can cast them again. )

res: 16 ( More healing is nice, but this is mostly for RP if it is used in conversations like in PoE1.)

 

The chants look really good. Fire lash is a no brainer. If it lingers long enough I can combine it with something else. ancient memory, resistence to 2 afflictions or damage shield look like good candidates. Damage chants look useless.

[Boeroer]

The skeletons are especially cool because they only have a 5 second cast time (less with some dex) and they split on death. But the wurms are also not bad because they do ranged attacks at a good speed - and sometimes 6 skeletons don't fit into a narrow space. Four little itsy-bitsy ogres are just cute - but still hit hard. The drake was totally bugged so I couldn't test it.

 

Once you got the summons out you can do a FoD strike for Shared Flames and then start resummoning. Then another FoD and so on. That way you will always have summons on the field without a gap.

 

Yes, the damage chants are all bad atm. 

 

By the way: I didn't try the summons on PotD yet. Maybe they suck against higher defenses, can't say. 

[Boeroer]

Just tired "Her Courage Thick as Steel" with a troubadour and Brisk Recitation.

 

It's gamebreakingly awesome. Add the two "wedding" invocations for affliction removal and long-term buffing and this is a pretty awesome support char without any multiclassing. Multiclassed with a Livegiver you could also do a great amount of healing - but get that awesome phrase a lot later.

 

Honestly: most of the chants and also invocations are so awesome that I want to play a party with 6 5 chanters (single or multiclass). Think about the synergies of Ancient Memories (maybe + Constant Recovery) + Their Courage from a troubadour + alternating resistance chants + alternating weakening + Mith Fyr chant. Pretty unstoppable I'd guess. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[dunehunter]

Just tired "Her Courage Thick as Steel" with a troubadour and Brisk Recitation.

 

It's gamebreakingly awesome. Add the two "wedding" invocations for affliction removal and long-term buffing and this is a pretty awesome support char without any multiclassing. Multiclassed with a Livegiver you could also do a great amount of healing - but get that awesome phrase a lot later.

 

Honestly: most of the chants and also invocations are so awesome that I want to play a party with 6 5 chanters (single or multiclass). Think about the synergies of Ancient Memories (maybe + Constant Recovery) + Their Courage from a troubadour + alternating resistance chants + alternating weakening + Mith Fyr chant. Pretty unstoppable I'd guess. 

 

Yeah, 30 damage absorb per 3 second as a phrase, it is really decent.

[Madscientist]

A party full of chanters sounds very good

 

- A skald multi classed with a martial class to lower enemy AR permanently, giving fire lash to everyone

- two troubadours with the damage shield and ancient memory to keep the party alive, can use whatever invocations they like

- two beckoners chanting affliction resistance. A single class for high level summons and a multi class with priest for skelletons and buffs.

Imagine a huge army of summons, all with damage shield, constant healing and fire lash and they are all buffed with dire blessing, devotiions, and so on.

[Boeroer]

Yes, sounds very promising.

[dunehunter]

Does shared flame and Mytr Fyr stack? So if you have 5 chanter can you get +180% lash damage or not

Edited February 26, 2018 by dunehunter

[Madscientist]

I do not think that fire lash buffs stack with themselves, but I am not sure.

Did anyone test it?

The chant + shared flames might stack, but I gues you can have only have each buff once.

[Boeroer]

Shared Flames and Mith Fyr do stack. But I actually didn't check if those stack with themselves from different sources. Since multiple layers of Mith Fyr (linger + active phrase) don't stack I suppose not.

[dunehunter]

Since you can do 5 Dragon Trashed phrase, why cannot 5 Mith Fyr stack? And I never heard any stack rules about lash. Could have tested it if I have access to laptop.

 

Anyway if this works it is a bit too good. +180 lash...

[Boeroer]

It also would be a lot more powerful than in PoE since multiple lashes don't have to overcome 1/4 of DR each. In Deadfire they can be seen as one huge lash.

 

I can test if they stack this evening but I'm 99% sure that they will not.

 

The question "why can't Mith Fyr stack while Dragon Thrashed stacks" is like asking "why can't Devotions stack while Fireballs stack?".

 

By the way: Inspiring Radiance in PoE does stack with itself (from multiple priests).

Edited February 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[CottonWolf]

I could imagine a weird interaction where the Bleak Walker, Kind Wayfarer and standard versions of Shared Flames stack.

[Boeroer]

Shared Flames is 20% burning lash - it's the same for every paladin subclass and not really mechanically connected to the "real" FoD - or what did you mean?

[CottonWolf]

I mean that according to the leaked skill list, all the subclass versions are coded as separate skills, and I could imagine that that would lead to weird interactions between them. No idea if it does.