Frenzy and Swift Strikes now giving less action speed bonus, descriptions not revised

[SaruNi]

Frenzy is supposed to give +25% action speed but is only giving +20%.

 

Swift Strikes is supposed to give +20% action speed but is only giving +17%.

 

Edit: Cat Flurry is supposed to give +33%, but is only giving +25%.

 

If it's an intended change (ugh), the descriptions haven't been updated. 

 

(If it is intended, it's terrible. These were the main ways to reduce casting speed by multiclassing. Instead of solving the casting speed problem, this exacerbates it. Reduce melee weapon speed by all means, but not these.)

Edited December 24, 2017 by SaruNi

[AndreaColombo]

Agreed on its being terrible if it’s intended. Those speed bonuses were fine and needed no fine-tuning.

[KDubya]

It might be a case where the way the speed increase is applied is changing.

 

Consider dexterity, it says +3% per point but on a mouseover it actually lists something less as its applied such that 33% faster is a reduction of 25% if I'm remembering it correctly.

[AndreaColombo]

What’s the point of UI misinformation, though?

[MaxQuest]

Frenzy is supposed to give +25% action speed but is only giving +20%.

 

Swift Strikes is supposed to give +20% action speed but is only giving +17%.

 

Edit: Cat Flurry is supposed to give +33%, but is only giving +25%.

 

If it's an intended change (ugh), the descriptions haven't been updated.

I suppose it's UI problem coupled with the fact that there should be a special case for speed-related tooltip generation.

 

If an effect gives +25% action speed, than it's obvious that it's tooltip should write: [+25% action speed] or [-20% action duration].

 

P.S. Cross-linking a related thread.

Edited December 26, 2017 by MaxQuest

[AndreaColombo]

How does the math work?

 

That’s something I’ve been wondering lately. How do I figure that moving 25% faster reduces the length of my action by 20%?

[MaxQuest]

Let's say you are going from city A to B, which are 100km apart.

 

At 100km/h you would arrive in 60min.

At 125km/h you would arrive in 48min.

 

125km/h is by 25% bigger speed than the referenced 100km/h. (25/100 = 0.25)

48min is by 20% smaller duration than the referenced 60min. (12/60 = 0.2)

[AndreaColombo]

So -20% is actually more useful information than +25%. If I want to reach 0 recovery, I need to stack -100% and it doesn’t work the other way around.

 

DEX’s description would benefit from being expressed this way for clarity.

[MaxQuest]

If I want to reach 0 recovery, I need to stack -100% and it doesn’t work the other way around.

Yeap, either -100% "recovery duration" or +infinity% "recovery speed"  

 

So -20% is actually more useful information than +25%.

Well yes, for a final result this is the next most useful info.

But it might not work well if you compute in duration reductions from the start if there are multiple effects.

 

 

 

How to put it...

Imagine you are still going from A to B, but are asked to increase your speed thrice:

 

> if each time you make an increase in reference to base speed of 100:

- you will use additive speed stacking:

- 100 => 175 km/h

- you will arrive in 34.29min - which is by 42.85% smaller than 60min (25.71/60 = 0.4285)

 

> if each time you make an increase in reference to current speed:

- you will use multiplicative speed stacking:

- 100 => 195.31 km/h

- you will arrive in 30.72min - which is by 48.8% smaller than 60min (29.28/60 = 0.488)

 

> and if you try to operate with three [-20% duration] from the start... you are in trouble.

- 3 * (1.2 - 1) = 0.6 ?? - unclear what does this give us

- 1.2^3 - 1 = (1.728 - 1) = 0.728 ?? - unclear what does this give us

 

 

DEX’s description would benefit from being expressed this way for clarity.

Unfortunately it would likely end up with irrational number.

 

I think for now would be great at least get consistent signs and consistent terminology among all action/attack/recovery/reloading speed/time/duration effects and their tooltips.

Edited December 26, 2017 by MaxQuest

[SaruNi]

 

Frenzy is supposed to give +25% action speed but is only giving +20%.

 

Swift Strikes is supposed to give +20% action speed but is only giving +17%.

 

Edit: Cat Flurry is supposed to give +33%, but is only giving +25%.

 

If it's an intended change (ugh), the descriptions haven't been updated.

I suppose it's UI problem coupled with the fact that there should be a special case for speed-related tooltip generation.

 

If an effect gives +25% action speed, than it's obvious that it's tooltip should write: [+25% action speed] or [-20% action duration].

 

P.S. Cross-linking a related thread.

 

 

That makes sense. So in general the % reduction in action duration should be x/(1+x). 

 

Instead of using +action speed, they could just switch it back to an additively stacking -action duration and change the UI description to something like "actions take X% less time". That would actually be less confusing.  

[SaruNi]

With stacking action speed bonuses, the duration ("casting time", "recovery speed", etc.) tooltip displays them as multiple -% recovery speed factors (for example "-19% Dexterity, -17% Bloodlust, -20% Frenzy"). But they're actually calculated by adding the action speed bonuses and then computing the reduction in recovery speed, which is significantly smaller than what adding together the individual "-X%" entries implies.

Edited December 26, 2017 by SaruNi