[Single Class Druid] - Shifter Subclass

[DexGames]

I love the Concept of a Shapeshifted focused Druid,

 

Though, I wonder, do we really need all 5 Transformations ? What's your opinion on the Subclass ?

I'd rather choose & Focused my Gameplay on One Form rather than having all five personnaly.

 

Moreover, in my mind, going into a Shifter focused Class, I kind of don't want to rely on "Magic Spells", you know.

Developp my Character more on the Passive side of the Ability Tree, where in that case, lacks for some more Passive Options to choose for.

 

I don't really like Leveling up & being forced to choose a Magic Spell, that I don't wanna rely on because of the Nature of my Class,

because there's no more Passive Options left to choose from...

 

When Josh presented the Fighter Class back in the day, he was asked :

• Will Fighters be more Active in Deafire ?

& Responded :

• You will be able to make a more Fighting oriented Fighter Class in Deadfire [...], but on the other hand : If you'd rather want a more Passive Fighter, where you don't wanna Micro manage it & let him do his own thing, (ie : Let him Tank), while dealing with the rest of your Party, you can absolutely do that.

 

 

So here's the thing regardind the Shifter Subclass : I'd like Josh & Devs to take kind of the same approach towards this Subclass.

 

More Options :

• When Shifted - A variety of Active Abilities if you're aiming at an Active "Micro-Management" Playstyle.
• And Options to be Passive. Natural Tankiness [skin Upgrade], Regenerating Over-Time [similar to the Fighter Recovery], DPS oriented Passives [upgraded Claws, Auto-Leap when switching target (1 meter range)], Etc. Lol I don't know, just iterating here. 
• I know it kinda implies they'd sort of have to create custom Ability Trees for Forms but, wouldn't it be worth...

Anyway, for now I guess my main concern is to be forced to choose a Magic Spell, when I don't want to. I imagine i could try to Multiclass a Shifter with a Fighter [unbroken if I wanna Tank], but I don't want the penalty of Lower Power-Level, Etc.

 

EDIT : Even when Multiclassed, still forced to choose a Magic Spell at some point. [Hint : Any Form + Monk's "Swift Strikes" = Shred your way through Ennemies.]

 

Dedicated Shifted Druid that can Access the highest potential of its Class, Passively or Actively.

Also, I'm a Shifter, shouldn't I be able to "Toggle" ? And comeback to my Form ? It shouldn't be regarded as a Consumable thing that is lost because you used it... I'm a Shifter, I'm a Master at it.

Edited December 12, 2017 by DexGames

[esyvjrt]

Upgrades to the different spiritshifts passives and abilities for the base Druid would be nice, then the Shifter would only need toggle one form and a nerf to spells

Edited December 9, 2017 by esyvjrt

[theBalthazar]

I agree with that.

 

5 forms are too much.

 

Stay with 2 or 3 for shifter is better.

 

Concept of choice, concept of improved damage and/or accuracy.

 

ACTUAL VERSION

5 forms

Normal damage and Accuracy.

Improved duration.

Massive heal for each transformation.

 

POSSIBLE VERSION

2 forms only. Players choose among 5.

Improved damage and accuracy.

Improved duration.

No heal for each transformation.

Massive Heal at the transformation = lifegiver... (Once per encounter with spiritshifting)

[Erik-Dirk]

I don't see why 5 forms would be too much, they could be considered a very versatile modal. I would definitely expect a shifter to be able to fill most battle roles depending on form.

The player then gets to choose between buffs/abilities for individual forms. Either focusing on one to properly fill a role or focusing on a couple for slightly weaker versatility.

I really like the idea for this class but it does seem like it would be too much work for the devs. Maybe a DLC or a talented modder could properly implement this class.

[theBalthazar]

Too much versatile, and heal x5. I love the druid, my favorite class since the first. I always had 1 or 2 druids in each of my team, I know it by heart.

 

HOWEVER...^^

 

In my opinion, need a nerf/change.

 

If you don't like 2 forms left, choose 3 forms. It is always "Ok".

 

3 forms you have already a good versatility. But don't add the heal... (Give this to Lifegiver ! Transfo = heal. Only once = no more cheat.)

 

and to compensate, a boost of damage and accuracy. You are a shifter, you are better with spiritshift than others druids = logical. More precise, more lethal. More bestial.

 

You cannot send spells during shifting... It is not crazy to boost damage/accuracy a little ?

Edited December 10, 2017 by theBalthazar

[JerekKruger]

I'm rather disappointed with the Shapeshifter. What I'd have preferred to see is the following:

• Spiritshift becomes a modal rather than a limited duration ability.
• Spell casting is disabled whilst Spiritshifted.
• You start with one Spiritshift form but can learn the others at the cost of an ability point.
• Spiritshift is better than for non-Shapeshifter druids (bonus to power level perhaps?)
• Ideally there should be some abilities and passives that improve Spiritshift, so that a Shapeshifter who focuses on it can choose them over spells.

[DexGames]

 

I'm rather disappointed with the Shapeshifter. What I'd have preferred to see is the following:

• Spiritshift becomes a modal rather than a limited duration ability.
• Spell casting is disabled whilst Spiritshifted.
• You start with one Spiritshift form but can learn the others at the cost of an ability point.
• Spiritshift is better than for non-Shapeshifter druids (bonus to power level perhaps?)
• Ideally there should be some abilities and passives that improve Spiritshift, so that a Shapeshifter who focuses on it can choose them over spells.

 

 

Well, I think Jerek's just summarized it all...

I don't know if there's one particular person in Obsidian's Team in charge of the Druid Class, but it'd be nice to engage the conversation with him/her, while things aren't definitely established. And see what's his/her thoughts on that.

 

I know they pay attention though, so thats a good thing

Edited December 11, 2017 by DexGames

[AndreaColombo]

I agree Jerek’s take would make for a possibly more interesting Shifter subclass.

[JerekKruger]

Something else I'd add is I'd like to see more significant difference between the five animal forms.

[theBalthazar]

+1 for Jerek.

Edited December 12, 2017 by theBalthazar

[AxDragonxg]

Jerek's suggestion seems like a definite improvement, and fixes the biggest gripe I have with the subclass. For a class that presumably focuses on staying shifted as often as possible there aren't that many ways a shifter can improve their spiritshifts without relying on spells, which can't be casted while shifted, or on either multiclassing or on buffs from another party member. As it is now, shifters feel like they just have a slightly bigger bag of tricks than other druids as opposed to a shifter's spiritshifts feeling different to a regular druid's.  

[DexGames]

Shifters should be Focused on their Beastly Form exclusively imo, not Magic Spells.

Obsidian should take inspirations from Kills-In-Shadows in Tyranny, take a look at her Ravager / Titan Trees, & give Shifters "similar" active abilities that she had in the the Game :

• Leaping Death: Leap onto a nearby enemy from stealth, heavily damaging all foes in the area and knocking them Prone.
• Primal Scream: Roar at nearby enemies, Frightening them. If this ability is used while stealthed enemies become Terrified instead.
• Disembowel: Use both claws to rip the target’s stomach open, dealing a large amount of Slash / Pierce (best of) damage and leaving them Bleeding for an extended duration.
• Trample: KIS moves rapidly towards her enemy, trampling foes in her path. Enemies caught in her path take Crush damage and are knocked Prone.
• Taste of Blood: Causes all attacks from stealth to inflict a lasting bleed affliction. When Taste of Blood triggers, KIS receives a regeneration effect until combat ends.
• Stance Berserker Rage: KIS enters a primal frenzy. While in this stance, damage taken is increased, but KIS receives a large bonus to Endurance and Melee Damage.

I'm concious that some of them don't fit at all, but the Trample is easily one that does, & could be part of the Shifter Class, Leaping also (not necessarily from Stealth), Disembowel also (I give Echo to another Post requiring Fist/Claws Proficiency), Primal Scream too... or Create New Ones that does fit each Forms !

Instead of taking time developing a Walk Toggle, expand your Gameplay Mechanics & give the Shifters some love FFS ! 

 

Look at this and tell me this thing can't do anything but auto-attacking ? I don't even mind it only auto-attacking, but more Passive options over Spells is required (Jerek's suggestion).

By the way, Corrode/Fire/Ice/Shock Passive doesn't really make sense, give the Cat & Wolf a "Bleeding Passive + its upgrade" or something adequate.

Edited December 27, 2017 by DexGames

[DexGames]

Unless their Passive Trees drastically expands past Level 9,

Here's what they have compared to some other Classes :

 

 

Note that, over the Course of 9 Levels :

• All other Classes get, almost Exclusively "Unique/Self-Contained" Passive Abilities they can choose from.
• While the Druid get the first Three, then have to pick One of the next four available.
• That leaves them with only 4 choices (5 with the Upgrade, but you're stuck with it anyway), while every other Class gets around a Dozen of choices, at the very least, if not more.
• EDIT : Oh ! Power-Level 3 & 5... Nothing ? 

So like I said, unless their Passive Tree greatly expands past Lvl 9, there's an immense lack of choices, in my opinion.

Especially given the "Core Nature" of this Subclass which is :

• Spiritshifting Focused
• Non-Spell Casting

Other Subclasses of the Druid don't focus on their Spiritshift Form, so that's ok if their Trees stays like it is now.

But the Shifter Tree must be Reworked, they don't have to remake all three, just focus on this one since it's a drastically different one from the others.

Edited December 30, 2017 by DexGames

[theBalthazar]

True. Only 5 passives choices for the druids. And not really interresting, except spiritshift lash.

Edited December 31, 2017 by theBalthazar

[dunehunter]

Would like if one of the Spiritual form of druid has crush type damage. Now it seems only bear form has slash type, the rest are all pierce type.

 

Maybe the stag form can be changed to do crush damage with their antlers?

Edited January 3, 2018 by dunehunter

[dunehunter]

Another issue with Shifter is that it takes away my joy of looting. I feel no excitement from new equipment because they are useless when i'm shifted.

 

I think for a lot players looting is a part of reason why we play RPG games, I'm fine if my teammate is a shifter, but it is a no-go for my main, even the subclass is super strong.

 

My advice is: 1) Let some stats, for example attribute bonus and power level bonus from equipment to be inherent after shifting.

 

2) Let accessory like rings to be inherent after shifting.

Edited January 3, 2018 by dunehunter

[Boeroer]

Or introduce some "magical" items that have an impact on your shifting - like the Wildstrike Belt had in PoE1. I'm pretty sure one could come up with some more neat ideas that wouldn't take ages to realize.

A normally pretty furry hide armor that gives you +1 armor when shifted, a quite badly sewn fur cap that gives you -5 ACC when in human form but +5 ACC when shifted - stuff like that.

 

But maybe that's already in, who knows?

Edited January 3, 2018 by Boeroer

[theBalthazar]

The slot of trinklet would be cool for that.

 

But atm this slot is only for wizard ?

[AndreaColombo]

Yeah, unfortunately they had to shelve trinkets for other classes. Hopefully in the expansion...

[theBalthazar]

Too bad. Class only, for exemple :

 

Fang Pendant (Druid)

Grimoires (Wizard)

Luminous amulet (Priest)

Music instrument (Chanter)

Cross of the order (paladin)

 

Etc.

[dunehunter]

I think it might be a good idea to introduce more Druid spell that can only be casted under spiritual form, like the lvl 2 Spell Taste of hunt. And allow shifter to use these when shifted.

 

Like spells which mimic Barbarian blow or a slash lash version of FoD. A shifter can pick these spells instead of regular spells.

 

This might solve the problem that Shifter’s lack of choices when level up.

Edited January 8, 2018 by dunehunter

[DexGames]

That might be a Solution, yeah.

Though, if the Shifter really have to Focus on Non-Spellcasting, as it's currently presented now, [which, I like it that way personally], then it just needs

more Passive choices [at least], or Custom Actives.

 

Overall, I really think the Shifter, [this Subclass specifically], needs a Reworked Tree.

Aside from Spells, having 4 choices when every other classes have ~10+ Options is a problem.

 

My comparison with Tyranny's Kills-In-Shadows may sounds a bit like "too much", [& I agree], but still I'd really like the Shifter to have somekind of similitudes

with this Character. It'd make it truely unique & fun to play.

I mean everything is in its Name, it's a Shifter, not a "Nature Wizard"... Which is what a regular Druid is honestly. 

 

In the end, just "Revising" it, is all I'm concerned with.

I hope they'll take a look at it.

Edited January 9, 2018 by DexGames

[DexGames]

Quick Update :

https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/959200943425306624

Edited February 2, 2018 by DexGames

[DexGames]

So they added more Passives to the Shifter Subclass. That's good but :

• Who thought it'd be a good idea to add the passives that make the least sense possible ? I want names ! 

Single Handed // Two Handed // Dual Wielding // More Sets of Weapons // Etc... Really ?

We're talking about Shifters 

You know :

• Bear & Cat's Claws // Boar's Tusks // Stagg's Horns // Wolf's Teeth... Which Category does these fits ?
• None of these make sense given what's being used by a Shifter ! These Characters will be Shifted most of the time OR Cast Spells ! [Which, I already said, doesn't fit the theme]
• None will ever use Weapons for god's sake. What are these passives even doing here ? Who will ever pick one of those passives ?

Give Shifters some Fighters / Monks usefull Passives already ! Or at least, anything that make little sense.

 

Disclaimer :

Let me mention it again.

• Access to 5 Forms isn't good.
• Pick One // Two Form.
• Make it a Modal, Toggle On/Off.
• Evolve each Forms as you level up : Claws/Horns/Tusks/Etc // Penetration // Skin Armor Rating // Fighter's Recovery for Bear Form, for exemple // Etc... These kind of Passives, make more sense than what they currenlty have.
• If I pick One starter form on Lvl 1, let me Expand the Numbar of forms I can pick as I Level Up. [Even though I wouldn't, I'd rather stick to one]
• Get rid of that OP Healing between Form Switchings, for obvious reasons if you make Spiritshift a Modal Stance. That heal was already strong, now has a Passive Option that makes it even stronger.

EDIT : Typos.

Edited March 31, 2018 by DexGames

[theBalthazar]

Yes new passives or not hyper inspired. Without annihilating balancing, there is an opportunity to create better passives abilities.

Edited March 31, 2018 by theBalthazar