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Rubbish melee animations


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#1
molotov.

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I watched several videos of the backer beta tests and I have to say that the fighter class look ridiculously boring, well... all of the melee attacks look boring as hell, specially the sword and shield, oh boy... that one... before making an attack the character puts his shield away and procceds to telegraph his move, that just looks too silly, wasn't my fighter supposed to be a decent martial artist?

How about some HEMA animations?

34cd93633cfcd330e65c26c478987cac.jpg

 

 

 

e04198858f3b2406550588726b6a3201.jpg


It's a sincere question, I don't know much about animation, stances and melee attacks are more expensive to animate than spells?

Oh... before anyone comments, of course I'm not expecting that they implement 14 stances, but how about 3? Or even 1 per weapon? That would be better than most games.
 


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#2
Doppelschwert

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My only hope would be that they use the two-handed animation while wielding a single one-handed weapon without a shield.

Currently, it's the same animation as one-handed with a shield, just without wearing the shield.

No one in their right mind would not use the second hand to steady the weapon, and the animations should already be there for the two-handed weapons anyway.


Edited by Doppelschwert, 21 November 2017 - 01:46 PM.

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#3
Wormerine

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I much more concerned about readability of combat than if it looks realistic. As a top down game it’s last concern is if it makes sense but if attacks are visible, hit/miss is easy to spot etc. They still have lots of work to do.
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#4
molotov.

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I much more concerned about readability of combat than if it looks realistic. As a top down game it’s last concern is if it makes sense but if attacks are visible, hit/miss is easy to spot etc. They still have lots of work to do.

Why wizards, druids, ciphers and priests can receive so much effort, resources and animations to ONE spell and fighters, rogues, barbarians and monks can't even get some decent melee animations? Look at the firebender stuff that Tyranny had, why monks in PoE can't have animations like that?



#5
Wormerine

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I much more concerned about readability of combat than if it looks realistic. As a top down game it’s last concern is if it makes sense but if attacks are visible, hit/miss is easy to spot etc. They still have lots of work to do.

Why wizards, druids, ciphers and priests can receive so much effort, resources and animations to ONE spell and fighters, rogues, barbarians and monks can't even get some decent melee animations? Look at the firebender stuff that Tyranny had, why monks in PoE can't have animations like that?

 

Because its different world and different style. Tyranny was fanstastical, over the top with people flying in the air (literally!). Not that I didn't like it, but it wouldn't fit pillars. If they have time I would welcome a nice animation as long as its grounded and clear. Communicating stance via animation would be welcome but with such small characters it might be difficult to communicate without going over the top. 

Still, fix UI first than worry about style.



#6
molotov.

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I much more concerned about readability of combat than if it looks realistic. As a top down game it’s last concern is if it makes sense but if attacks are visible, hit/miss is easy to spot etc. They still have lots of work to do.

Why wizards, druids, ciphers and priests can receive so much effort, resources and animations to ONE spell and fighters, rogues, barbarians and monks can't even get some decent melee animations? Look at the firebender stuff that Tyranny had, why monks in PoE can't have animations like that?

 

Because its different world and different style. Tyranny was fanstastical, over the top with people flying in the air (literally!). Not that I didn't like it, but it wouldn't fit pillars. If they have time I would welcome a nice animation as long as its grounded and clear. Communicating stance via animation would be welcome but with such small characters it might be difficult to communicate without going over the top. 

Still, fix UI first than worry about style.

 

Note that I specific said monks, a character that can make a clone and punch a dragon to death, the over the top part is already there, still I'm not saying that they need to fly, but a cool kick and a decent punch is welcome.

Well... I think that fighters will be boring to watch... again.


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#7
cheesevillain

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It's a sincere question, I don't know much about animation, stances and melee attacks are more expensive to animate than spells?

 

 

 

They're both very expensive, but without unique animations for spells, they can't include wizards in the game.



#8
Quillon

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I much more concerned about readability of combat than if it looks realistic. As a top down game it’s last concern is if it makes sense but if attacks are visible, hit/miss is easy to spot etc. They still have lots of work to do.

Why wizards, druids, ciphers and priests can receive so much effort, resources and animations to ONE spell and fighters, rogues, barbarians and monks can't even get some decent melee animations? Look at the firebender stuff that Tyranny had, why monks in PoE can't have animations like that?

 

Because its different world and different style. Tyranny was fanstastical, over the top with people flying in the air (literally!). Not that I didn't like it, but it wouldn't fit pillars. If they have time I would welcome a nice animation as long as its grounded and clear. Communicating stance via animation would be welcome but with such small characters it might be difficult to communicate without going over the top. 

Still, fix UI first than worry about style.

 

Note that I specific said monks, a character that can make a clone and punch a dragon to death, the over the top part is already there, still I'm not saying that they need to fly, but a cool kick and a decent punch is welcome.

Well... I think that fighters will be boring to watch... again.

 

 

When asked why isn't this animation realistic, the answer is "cos it's fantasy", when asked why isn't it the same with the other fantasy game they have made, the answer is "this is more realistic". 

 

Either they don't give a **** or they don't have the time to put thought and care into melee animations.

 

Pillars' Pommel Stirke "received new, more realistic!? animations" :p

https://youtu.be/64U0n2SaNmI?t=149

 

When it should have at least resembled:

https://youtu.be/xSy1gNyjSXk?t=127

 

Yeah different games and stuff but I said "resembled". Just a punch animation while holding the wep would have been 10x better.

 

Other than that I already said my piece about how basic melee anims lacks finesse in other threads before.


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#9
Wormerine

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Note that I specific said monks, a character that can make a clone and punch a dragon to death, the over the top part is already there, still I'm not saying that they need to fly, but a cool kick and a decent punch is welcome.
Well... I think that fighters will be boring to watch... again.


I won’t argue that PoE isn’t a great spectacle. I am just usually to busy making sure I wont die and keeping an eye on message log to really worry about fighter’s animations not having impact.

#10
Wormerine

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Pillars' Pommel Stirke "received new, more realistic!? animations" :p
https://youtu.be/64U0n2SaNmI?t=149
 
When it should have at least resembled:
https://youtu.be/xSy1gNyjSXk?t=127
 


So... what’s wrong with this animation? It’s brief, it’s clear, it has impact, it will fit with multiple weapons.

#11
cheesevillain

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Pillars' Pommel Stirke "received new, more realistic!? animations" :p
https://youtu.be/64U0n2SaNmI?t=149
 
When it should have at least resembled:
https://youtu.be/xSy1gNyjSXk?t=127
 


So... what’s wrong with this animation? It’s brief, it’s clear, it has impact, it will fit with multiple weapons.

 

 

 

He has absurdly high expectations. He might as well be expecting to receive a complimentary private jet plane with his copy of the game. Animation is much more expensive than most people realize.

 

The second clip is from an E3 promotional cinematic for Kingdom Come: Deliverance. That game has some beautiful graphics/animation, but they're nowhere near as good as that video. If he thinks games can reasonably resemble that kind of animation today, he's going to be disappointed for a long time.


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#12
Quillon

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It's comical, something you'd see in cartoons, not even close to realistic as described.



#13
Quillon

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He has absurdly high expectations. He might as well be expecting to receive a complimentary private jet plane with his copy of the game. Animation is much more expensive than most people realize.
 
The second clip is from an E3 promotional cinematic for Kingdom Come: Deliverance. That game has some beautiful graphics/animation, but they're nowhere near as good as that video. If he thinks games can reasonably resemble that kind of animation today, he's going to be disappointed for a long time.


What I expect is common sense, a little thought going into the move, a punch-like animation instead of that wouldn't be any harder to make or not holding the weapon that vertical, I'm not expecting intricate animations from both sides like what's in KCD vid. I already preemtively said "resembled" instead of "this should be exactly like this" for a possible comment like yours but wasn't enough it seems.

 

ed: btw. this or any other animations are not deal breakers for me, they are just minor things catching my eye, I just think they could be better with little more effort/thought.


Edited by Quillon, 22 November 2017 - 03:33 AM.

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#14
Wormerine

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Warband still has the best melee system I played and animations are dodgy. Fluff is nice, but fluff is fluff. I like me some fluff. I like solid core better. I supposed that’s why ass creed never did it for me. Lots of wonderful fluff, little core.

#15
kierun

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In this  Hellblade developer diary about combat, you can find out just how hard motion capture for combat actually is. Unreal 4 is not Unity for sure, so what applies to Unreal does not necessarily translate to Unity. However, it should give you a glimpse into how hard motion in general is.



#16
Wormerine

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Does Obsidian use motion capture, or is it all handmade? I remember them showing off a room which used to be motion capture room for Alpha Protocol, but I don’t remember if they still have the stuff.

#17
Quillon

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Does Obsidian use motion capture, or is it all handmade? I remember them showing off a room which used to be motion capture room for Alpha Protocol, but I don’t remember if they still have the stuff.

 

I don't think they are mo-capping for PoE.

 

 

In this  Hellblade developer diary about combat, you can find out just how hard motion capture for combat actually is. Unreal 4 is not Unity for sure, so what applies to Unreal does not necessarily translate to Unity. However, it should give you a glimpse into how hard motion in general is.

 

Yes making games is hard yet quality of things varies among games, sometimes there is too much difference. There are more rpgs criticized for bad writing than their animations, writing is harder than animation by this logic therefore we shouldn't criticize writing neither!?

 

At this point we just say what we think can make things better, if somethings are impossible improve with the resources they have or we're wrong in our assessments they won't improve them anyway :p


Edited by Quillon, 22 November 2017 - 05:15 AM.

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#18
molotov.

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In this  Hellblade developer diary about combat, you can find out just how hard motion capture for combat actually is. Unreal 4 is not Unity for sure, so what applies to Unreal does not necessarily translate to Unity. However, it should give you a glimpse into how hard motion in general is.

No, no, no, I'm not asking for motion capture or any of that expensive stuff, I'm asking one simple thing, attention.

When Eder attacks with a shield and weapon he puts the shield UP, not aside -like he does now-, and when he attacks with the blade he uses a practical and short swing not a big ****in' swing that any enemy could dodge, same thing with the greatsword, why making an animation of a big swing from left to right if you could animate a practical and realistic swing?
4:01 to 4:09

AGAIN I'm not asking for a motion capture or anything like that, but if they can do animations of big and ugly swings they can do something like the video.

ps: The estoc animations are ratter good, they actually resemble how that weapon should be used, so that makes me believe that they can do that to a weapon and shield.



#19
Archaven

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I kind of wish that they put more effort in the animation. One of the best thing about how satisfying combat animation was Diablo 3. Look at how good monks were animated. Making me having the urge and go back with Diablo 3.



#20
Wormerine

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At this point I would rather use Wasteland 2, Tides of Numenera, Divinity Original Sin2 as examples rather than Activision Blizzard title. I can think of plenty of game that look and feel better than Obsidians games - shiny comes with big budget, big budget comes with shareholders being your main customers.






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