Backstabbing doable?

[dam]

How many times it's possible to use Shadowing Beyond during a fight? If you can kill an enemy using only attacks from stealth/invisibility and then reset the encounter it can become a great tool for people who solo...

 

That would be two times.

There are currently no upgrades to increase the number of uses.

 

And yup, it's going to be very effective for solo runs.

All the more so if you have a Soulblade and use Soul Annihilation from stealth, to add raw damage to that opening attack.

[Boeroer]

How many times it's possible to use Shadowing Beyond during a fight? If you can kill an enemy using only attacks from stealth/invisibility and then reset the encounter it can become a great tool for people who solo...

It is determined by your guile pool. If you have more guile you can use it more often. Empower can refill your guile pool. So far I haven't seen anything else that can. Corpse Eaters can refill rage with Flesh Communion, however there's nothing like that for the rogue (yet).

 

So yes - you can do multiple backstabs during an encounter: first out of stealth, then with Shadowing Beyond (as many times as your guile pool allows).

 

And I guess an Assassin/Soul Blade is a very good solo character. I mean not only because he can one- or two-shot most enemies from stealth/invisibily, but also because the gameplay will be a lot different and fun - now with the new stealth system, the sources of noise with which you can distract enemies and so on. For example you can place a trap somewhere and then sneak to another place. The enemy will hear the trap and look what's happening, often stepping into it. THis is very loud and so other enemies might come to look what's up while you can sneak where they cam from - the path is clear.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Boeroer

[Heijoushin]

Yes, that works. I did this. Good combo.

 

In my opinion an Assassin/Soul Blade is even better if you use weapons with high PEN: Deal 100+ damage with a Backstab+Assassinate from stealth to get a ton of focus and most of the time one-shot the enemy, follow up with Soul Annihilation on the second target. That usually deals around 200 damage, also one-shotting. Two enemies dead in the first 3 secs of combat is quite nice. My Devoted/Assassin was good as well, but he couldn't keep up with that.

 

Sneak + Backstab + Assassinate + Soul Whip + Biting Whip is so much damage...

 

I don't use any cipher powers by the way - I only use the focus for Soul Annihilation (ignoring that it's bugged and only uses 5 focus instead of all focus) - it's that good (and raw damage - so screw you PEN mechanics).

 

I two-shotted the titan with Blinding Strike + Soul Annihilation after assasinating the sand thingy that stands close to it. Only thing is I'm really really frail.

 

Just tested it. That is indeed a very sweet build. Not quite getting as high numbers as you, but still pretty sweet. The problem is indeed the frailty. 

 

Also, the martial aspect of the class makes the magic aspect laughable. I mean, it can crit almost every time with a weapon, but somehow the spells can't hit the broad side of a barn. 

[dam]

 

Yes, that works. I did this. Good combo.

 

In my opinion an Assassin/Soul Blade is even better if you use weapons with high PEN: Deal 100+ damage with a Backstab+Assassinate from stealth to get a ton of focus and most of the time one-shot the enemy, follow up with Soul Annihilation on the second target. That usually deals around 200 damage, also one-shotting. Two enemies dead in the first 3 secs of combat is quite nice. My Devoted/Assassin was good as well, but he couldn't keep up with that.

 

Sneak + Backstab + Assassinate + Soul Whip + Biting Whip is so much damage...

 

I don't use any cipher powers by the way - I only use the focus for Soul Annihilation (ignoring that it's bugged and only uses 5 focus instead of all focus) - it's that good (and raw damage - so screw you PEN mechanics).

 

I two-shotted the titan with Blinding Strike + Soul Annihilation after assasinating the sand thingy that stands close to it. Only thing is I'm really really frail.

 

Just tested it. That is indeed a very sweet build. Not quite getting as high numbers as you, but still pretty sweet. The problem is indeed the frailty. 

 

Also, the martial aspect of the class makes the magic aspect laughable. I mean, it can crit almost every time with a weapon, but somehow the spells can't hit the broad side of a barn. 

 

You're over exaggerating, it was a rather small barn...

[Heijoushin]

You're over exaggerating, it was a rather small barn...

 

I dunno man, either I'm getting really bad rolls lately, or Deadfire spellcasters need to collectively get their eyes tested...

[Boeroer]

Atm you would be gimping yourself if you would try to use powers with a Soul Blade. That's the main reason why I would never roll a single class Soul Blade at the moment. You would be forced to take some of the (momentary awful) powers. If you multiclass you can just pick Biting Whip and Hammering Thoughts and put the rest into the better abilites of your second class. There are some really nice combos (Shattered Pillar, Bleak Walker, Devoted, Assassin...).

 

All casters that you build offensively feel really, really bad at the moment while healing and self buffing via spells is very powerful.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Boeroer

[dam]

On topic, is it me or is might absolutely useless for a support/buff caster ?

 

I mean, most effects give This or That inspiration, which has flat +5 to whatever attribute, and no scaling whatsoever with might.

[Madscientist]

Atm you would be gimping yourself if you would try to use powers with a Soul Blade. That's the main reason why I would never roll a single class Soul Blade at the moment. You would be forced to take some of the (momentary awful) powers. If you multiclass you can just pick Biting Whip and Hammering Thoughts and put the rest into the better abilites of your second class. There are some really nice combos (Shattered Pillar, Bleak Walker, Devoted, Assassin...).

 

All casters that you build offensively feel really, really bad at the moment while healing and self buffing via spells is very powerful.

By the way, can psychic + brutal backlash still perma stunn some enemies? Or is there a per encounter limit?

At the moment, there are no dragons or banshees in the beta, but some enemies use will attacks (e.g. confusion).

 

If the charm spell hits, does it hit a party member instead of the enemy?

 

back on topic:Can you use the soul blade special attack from invisibility for the maximum overkill backstab?

[dam]

 

Atm you would be gimping yourself if you would try to use powers with a Soul Blade. That's the main reason why I would never roll a single class Soul Blade at the moment. You would be forced to take some of the (momentary awful) powers. If you multiclass you can just pick Biting Whip and Hammering Thoughts and put the rest into the better abilites of your second class. There are some really nice combos (Shattered Pillar, Bleak Walker, Devoted, Assassin...).

 

All casters that you build offensively feel really, really bad at the moment while healing and self buffing via spells is very powerful.

By the way, can psychic + brutal backlash still perma stunn some enemies? Or is there a per encounter limit?

At the moment, there are no dragons or banshees in the beta, but some enemies use will attacks (e.g. confusion).

 

If the charm spell hits, does it hit a party member instead of the enemy?

 

back on topic:Can you use the soul blade special attack from invisibility for the maximum overkill backstab?

 

I'm confused, you make it seem as if Psychic Backlash in POE1 did not have a 1/encounter limit ?

Would you please clarify ?

 

 

 

And yes, you can use the Soul Annihilation from stealth to augment your backstab.

You deal your backstab + assassination damage, and a flat amount of raw damage.

You're roughly critting in the 120-170 range at level 6.

You one shot the broodmother, but not the barbarian/monk laguafeth chieftain.

[Kaylon]

I was thinking about an assassin-sharpshooter build. You can use the pet to distract or as back up while you're sniping with an arquebus from stealth/invisibility with Wounding Shots. I don't know however what's the modal of the arquebus and if it's useful for this build. Also you don't need to switch weapons because you should have enough time to reload during Shadowing Beyond. 

[Dr <3]

 

 

Atm you would be gimping yourself if you would try to use powers with a Soul Blade. That's the main reason why I would never roll a single class Soul Blade at the moment. You would be forced to take some of the (momentary awful) powers. If you multiclass you can just pick Biting Whip and Hammering Thoughts and put the rest into the better abilites of your second class. There are some really nice combos (Shattered Pillar, Bleak Walker, Devoted, Assassin...).

 

All casters that you build offensively feel really, really bad at the moment while healing and self buffing via spells is very powerful.

By the way, can psychic + brutal backlash still perma stunn some enemies? Or is there a per encounter limit?

At the moment, there are no dragons or banshees in the beta, but some enemies use will attacks (e.g. confusion).

 

If the charm spell hits, does it hit a party member instead of the enemy?

 

back on topic:Can you use the soul blade special attack from invisibility for the maximum overkill backstab?

I'm confused, you make it seem as if Psychic Backlash in POE1 did not have a 1/encounter limit ?

Would you please clarify ?

 

 

Someone discovered that in one of the last paches for poe1 the psichic backlash was secretly improved. Now is not more 1/encounter, but activates every time you suffer a will attack. That means that everything with a fear aura will be permastunned ( and slowly die if you have brutal backlash talent for the raw dmg), you just need enough accuracy.

Obviusly is totally bonkers vs drakes, dragons, battery sirens, cean gwandla, barbarians,ecc ecc

[Boeroer]

I was thinking about an assassin-sharpshooter build. You can use the pet to distract or as back up while you're sniping with an arquebus from stealth/invisibility with Wounding Shots. I don't know however what's the modal of the arquebus and if it's useful for this build. Also you don't need to switch weapons because you should have enough time to reload during Shadowing Beyond.

That works from stealth if you are <= 2meters away. Currently there's a bug with Shadowing Beyond where only melee attacks get the backstab bonus.

 

The arquebus modal gives you slower attack speed but +20 accuracy.

 

Rangers can get ok attack cycles because they have gunner exclusively and can buy a hat that also gives you +20% reload speedup. Pistols' modal would give you +100% reload speedup but will also cost you 20 accuracy. They still might be better for backstab because you can dual-wield them - blunderbusses, too.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Boeroer

[SaruNi]

When a single-class Rogue first gets access to Shadowing Beyond at level 7, they can use it 3 times without expending empower points. The current beta only goes up to level 9, so multiclass rogues can't get it, but you can easily add it to a multiclass rogue with the console AddAbility command.

 

You can chant without leaving stealth/invisibility, even including damaging chants. And you can cast summons, buffs, heals, walls, and Seal spells without leaving stealth/invisibility. The invisibility lasts long enough (10 seconds base, more with high int) to get off a summons or other spell with 6 second casting time and 3 second cooldown and then backstab. So at higher levels there's synergy with Beckoner, Priest (Priest of Skaen's Apprentice Sneak Attack stacks with Sneak attack, their summoned dual wield weapons do massive damage, while they lose "Inspiration" spells there are several good buffs in Protection, not to mention Suppress Affliction, Consecrated Ground, and the Seals), Conjuror (unfortunately Writhing Tentacles and Essential Phantom are bugged now), Druid... even Rejuvenation Druid.

 

Likewise if you multiclass Ranger for the reload speed (and wounding shot DoT) you can summon the ghost heart's stronger pet from invisibility (it's a fast cast (0.5) but there's a 3 second recovery, which is nice because it can start attacking right away).

Edited November 25, 2017 by SaruNi

[Boeroer]

Cool stuff!

[Kaylon]

When a single-class Rogue first gets access to Shadowing Beyond at level 7, they can use it 3 times without expending empower points. The current beta only goes up to level 9, so multiclass rogues can't get it, but you can easily add it to a multiclass rogue with the console AddAbility command.

What's the cost of Shadowing Beyond? Your Guile increases with your level or it depends on the number of the abilities you pick from the rogue class (for a multiclass)?

 

Example: Let's say a pure rogue has 15 Guile points. A multiclassed rogue of the same level will have less Guile points; but it's always the same number of points or it varies depending on your spec choices? 

[Dr <3]

The same

[Boeroer]

The ability will always cost the same. Your resource pool will get bigger with level (but not as fast if you are muticlassing - but then you have two pools to draw from. Doesn't help to increase the uses of Shadowing Beyond though). So with more levels you can use Shadowing Beyond more often per encounter. If you build around (basically choosing Assassin) you get a lot more out of it as in PoE, which I like.

 

There are special abilites that reduce the cost of an ability or refund its use.

 

Corpse Eaters for example have Flesh Communion which will heal you and fill up rage again.

 

But as far as I know there's no way for the rogue to get used guile points refunded (?). Yet...

Edited November 25, 2017 by Boeroer

[L4wlight]

Rangers can get ok attack cycles because they have gunner exclusively and can buy a hat that also gives you +20% reload speedup. Pistols' modal would give you +100% reload speedup but will also cost you 20 accuracy.

 

Unfortunately the mentioned hat extends the reload time by 20%. Oddly enough, the same is true for Sur-Handed Ila (at least for the tooltip).

Edited November 25, 2017 by L4wlight

[SaruNi]

If you want to add Shadowing Beyond to a companion (hired mercenary)---suppose their name is "meow"---the console command is:

 

AddAbility Companion_P_meow Shadowing_Beyond

 

Their name has to be a single word, though. 

 

Best Assassin multi-class seems to be Monk with Swift Flurry and Confounding Blind (as someone suggested in "best beta build"). Once backstab is fixed to work with ranged weapons, a blunderbuss (5 chances to crit, AoE) or rod (AoE) should be able to take out clustered groups very quickly too. 

[Boeroer]

Still think best Assassin multiclass combo is with Soulblade. Initial Backstab kills enemy and lets explode your focus, then Soul Annihilation kills the next. Use Shadowing Beyond, repeat... and so on.

 

But the blunderbuss/Confounding Blind combo is very neat.

 

Speaking of blunderbuss: I soon will test a Black Jacket/Wizard with 3 blunderbusses (well actually 6 because dual wielding), Quick Switch and Combusting Wounds. Maybe it can work like it did in PoE where it was lots of fun.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Boeroer

[dunehunter]

The damage per hit on Firearms are not longer highest because 1) their basic damage is nerfed in POE2, a great sword has same maximum damage as arquebus, 2) they have Blunt Critical, which is -25% crit damage. 

 

So actually Great Sword + Savage Attack does most damage per hit now. The high accuracy modal of Arquebus doesn't boost its damage because their critical attack does same damage as normal attacks.

 

Therefore it's kinda pointless to sneak attack with ranged weapon now...

Edited November 26, 2017 by dunehunter

[Boeroer]

The blunderbuss also got an additional nerf: now it's 5 pellets instead of 6.

 

But now can dual wield pistols and blunderbusses which makes them good for full attack abilities - also for Backstab theoretically.

 

With 3 weapon slots and dual blunderbusses in each slot you can combine Combusting Wounds with 30 hits. This should annihilate most foes in theory. Can't recall the casting time for Comb. Wounds though.

 

I wonder what would happen if you combine the blunderbuss modal with Backstab...?

Edited November 26, 2017 by Boeroer

[dunehunter]

The blunderbuss also got an additional nerf: now it's 5 pellets instead of 6.

 

But now can dual wield pistols and blunderbusses which makes them good for full attack abilities - also for Backstab theoretically.

 

With 3 weapon slots and dual blunderbusses in each slot you can combine Combusting Wounds with 30 hits. This should annihilate most foes in theory. Can't recall the casting time for Comb. Wounds though.

 

I wonder what would happen if you combine the blunderbuss modal with Backstab...?

 

Based on my dual wielding Assassin/Bleak Walker, I think Backstab only works as Primary Attack, so if u dual wields Blunderbusses, only the mainhand will trigger Backstab.

 

Not sure about Blunderbuss modal, seems like it will trigger multiple target backstab :DD

[dunehunter]

Btw I haven't been able to make a good Spellblade (Rogue/Wizard) so far, they seems to require so many different stats, Might for damage, Dex for casting/attack speed, Perception for accuracy, Int for buff duration, Resolve for deflection, can't find a balance here.

 

And they seems to lack a way to boost Penetration too, both weapon and spell attacks feel weak against high armour enemies.

Edited November 26, 2017 by dunehunter

[Boeroer]

Does Sneak Attack work with spells now?