Frowning upon proficiency page as a monk

[dunehunter]

Did some test build on Nature Godlike Pure Monk at lvl 9, actually single class Monk has pretty good Transcendent Suffering. It is tied to your current power level, I got +50% damage, +4 penetration and +14 accuracy from it with Nature godlike Wellspring activated, which is better than an exceptional weapon. And fists are fast weapon so they have fast recovery time. 

 

I'm totally fine that they don't have a weapon proficiency for fist because fist itself is powerful if you are single class Monk. A multiclass Monk should pick a weapon stead of using fist because their Monk power level is lower than single class monks.

Edited November 27, 2017 by dunehunter

[Climhazzard]

Yeah single class nature godlike monk is pretty strong right now after level 7.  We're kind of assuming based on PoE fist balance that fists will remain fast, but we don't really know if they're meant to be fast or not in deadfire, if not there's a good chance they end up being weaker than normal weapons.  The benefits of nature godlike will likely taper off towards endgame too.

[Rensom]

Are Unarmed-focused Monk builds still forced to chose (2) weapon proficiencies during character creation and leveling up?

 

What about the Unarmed Devoted? Is the Unarmed proficiency still absent from the proficiency list during character creation?

 

Thanks.

[AndreaColombo]

Unarmed proficiency is gained automatically by every character as of beta 4.

[Boeroer]

"Forced to choose"...

 

Well if you are a monk and only want to use fists then just pick some random stuff (*click-click* while loking away) and forget about it.

 

As AndreaColombo said: everybody gains the unarmed proficiency automatically now. A Devoted can have two proficiencies: the automatic unarmed one (gives you the modal "Haymaker" which does +2 PEN and +50% recovery time) and one additional of your liking. So if you're going Monk/Devoted you will be proficient with fists and another backup-weapon of you choice - dual hatchet for example or quarterstaff or whatever.  

[dunehunter]

This also hint that for monk fist are way better than other regular weapons, you will never pick any crush type weapon because fist is already the best of them, but u can still pick some slash/pierce type ones in case u meet crush immune enemies I guess?

[IndiraLightfoot]

This is yet another case where picking new proficiencies soon becomes an empty gesture, a mere redundancy.

 

I'd love to see a few more interesting proficiencies added to that page on top of weapons and ranged weapons and shields - new types of proficiency, minor boosts:

- One extra item slot (obviously with a set upper limit)

- Quaff consumables in combat without any recovery penalty

- Some no armor proficiency (some bonus when wearing just clothing, the so-called "naked" route)

etc, etc...

[Soulmojo]

This is yet another case where picking new proficiencies soon becomes an empty gesture, a mere redundancy.

 

I'd love to see a few more interesting proficiencies added to that page on top of weapons and ranged weapons and shields - new types of proficiency, minor boosts:

- One extra item slot (obviously with a set upper limit)

- Quaff consumables in combat without any recovery penalty

- Some no armor proficiency (some bonus when wearing just clothing, the so-called "naked" route)

etc, etc...

 

I agree.

Let's put aside for a moment, that only a couple proficiencies are good, and lets focus on the the fact that it makes sense to choose one maybe two weapon for each character.

 

Now right at character generation I choose the two weapon type I will use with the character. I do get more proficiency later, but I just randomly put it somewhere which might be useful later (not).

 

I would much rather see proficiency paths you can go down on rather than collecting unused proficiencies which I might use.

A character has two hands. He can only use two weapons tops at one time and have a secondary weapon maybe to fall back to. Now if you know that you will at all time use 1-3 weapon or weapon type it makes sense if you want to improve those proficiencies and get mastery over those weapons. I don't mean numerical bonuses, but modifications to the proficiency bonus, reduction of penalty things like that.

 

With the introduction of soulbound weapons in PoE1 this fact is even more amplified.

[Soulmojo]

This also hint that for monk fist are way better than other regular weapons, you will never pick any crush type weapon because fist is already the best of them, but u can still pick some slash/pierce type ones in case u meet crush immune enemies I guess?

 

Well to be honest, if activating the proficiency bonus of the staff would not yield me any recovery penalty (on top of the already slow recovery) I would seriously consider using them. That +20 deflection bonus to melee defense looks very promising and defense is a very big weakness of monk especially if a lot of enemy swarms the monk.

 

Similar case with the 2 handed mace. That -25 reduction in enemy fortitude can be very rewarding when using force of anguish or torments reach, too bad that it comes with a damage penalty. 

 

 

I mean if I could master a staff for example where I can improve the bonus and reduce the penalty and on the highest tier I can remove the penalty and get the full bonus. That would be great. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Soulmojo

[IndiraLightfoot]

This is the only way to make proficiencies engaging and fun. Give us a few options per weapon and shield, plus, if I got my way, a few odd utility proficiencies.

 

It doesn't have to be a simple:

-weapon proficiency (+)

-better proficiency (++)

-best proficiency (+++)

 

It could be, for unarmed fists, for instance:

Faster fists OR an extra automatic fist graze

Even faster fists OR now two extra automatic fist grazes

 

Like a tree per proficiency.

[Soulmojo]

This is the only way to make proficiencies engaging and fun. Give us a few options per weapon and shield, plus, if I got my way, a few odd utility proficiencies.

 

It doesn't have to be a simple:

-weapon proficiency (+)

-better proficiency (++)

-best proficiency (+++)

 

It could be, for unarmed fists, for instance:

Faster fists OR an extra automatic fist graze

Even faster fists OR now two extra automatic fist grazes

 

Like a tree per proficiency.

 

Yes I wish something similar, though the first part I could accept.

 

If you accept that the weapon itself covers the numerical bonuses - accuracy, penetration, speed, special damages, and proc stuff - then proficiency could be a set of special techniques one could master which are tied to the weapon type.

 

One of the best example is the rod proficiency. Without the proficiency you do single damage, with it you can do aoe damage.

Another good example is the battleaxe. Without proficiency you do normal damage, with it you do stacking bleed.

 

There could be two path to go down upon. 

 

Example:

 

Scepter:

1st path: + pen +dam - self damage (exsisting bonus) -> +projectiles pierce -> +projectiles slow the enemy

2nd path: two weaker (+1) projectile -> three (+2) projectile -> projectiles bounce

 

Whatever these are just examples.

 

Could result in very interesting weapon proficiency + weapon special effect combinations.

 

Like you get a scepter with two inherent but weaker projectiles.  activate 2nd path with full mastery, you get 4 bouncing projectile.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Soulmojo

[Rensom]

"Forced to choose"...

 

Which would be correct since you can't seem to skip the proficiency selection screen unless you pick something?

 

Well if you are a monk and only want to use fists then just pick some random stuff (*click-click* while loking away) and forget about it.

 

Sure, I could do that, but this would leave me with proficiencies an Unarmed Monk build gets absolutely nothing out of. Which is irritating, to say the least.

 

As AndreaColombo said: everybody gains the unarmed proficiency automatically now. A Devoted can have two proficiencies: the automatic unarmed one (gives you the modal "Haymaker" which does +2 PEN and +50% recovery time) and one additional of your liking. So if you're going Monk/Devoted you will be proficient with fists and another backup-weapon of you choice - dual hatchet for example or quarterstaff or whatever.  

 

Isn't that quite the contradiction to the concept of the Devoted who "are dedicated to the pursuit of a single weapon to the exclusion of all others."? This single weapon being "fist" or "hand", in case of a -purely- Unarmed-specialized Devoted (even refraining from using backup weapons)?

Having to pick another proficiency in addition to the Unarmed one completely goes against this bit of official(!) definition of the subclass.

 

Maybe it's just me then who's bothered by the fact that (also from a roleplay-perspective) you won't be able to make neither a -true- Unarmed-focused Monk nor a -true- Unarmed-specialized Devoted. You'll always -have- to pick additional proficiencies you'll never make use of.

 

Was it ever mentioned why the Unarmed proficiency isn't available from the list of proficiencies during character creation?

Would solve one half of the issue if this were the case.

 

I get why selecting proficiencies during character creation and leveling up is mandatory (so that most people do not accidently skip it I guess?) but if this too weren't the case and you actually could skip that part it would solve the other half of the issue as well. IF the Unarmed proficiency would also be added to the list to chose from, of course.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Rensom

[Boeroer]

I guess UI problems.

[PatrioticChief]

I guess UI problems.

 

You changing your profile pic threw me for a loop. 

[PatrioticChief]

Where is my lamp proficiency Obsidian? WHERE!?

Edited April 16, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[Guest Matt Sheets]

Em... arcane implements proficiency much ?

Like, who other than your wizard is going to use a wand...

 

 

My Fighter/Paladin with dual wielding Scepters is fun build. 

[gGeorg]

Learning weapon fight is quite time consuming.

In the first, proficiency should get mostly weapon focused clases. Fighter (typicaly) study melle so he gets proficiency. However, the mage ?

When a nerdy mage spend his time to learn body moves balance and reactions?

 

Proficiency should not be given evenly to all clases.

Some weapons are more difficult than others. e.g. its possible to handle a short sword for a mage, but  not flail or two-handed sword.

Weapons proficiency should have a path to study. Lets say you start with a short bow THEN learn hunting bow THEN learn war bow.

e.g. there should be a simple leveling system for studying weapons.

Different classes should receive different amount of proficiency.

e.g. we could see a mage proficient with level one weapon like short blade, but  mage proficient with shield, mace, two handed sword all at once ? I dont think so.

(get notice, dagger should be level two proficiency, its actually more difficult than short sword)

Some classes should get a free proficiency from "their" weapon type, like casters from arcane implements weapon type.

 

On top of this, some weapons, preferably high level weapons, could offer 2 tricks. Like two handed sword 

1.st proficiency half-swording (penetration bonus for deflection penalty)

2.nd proficiency strong chop (dmg bonus for accuracy penalty )

 

So one warrior you could knew one, two or none trick with a great sword.

Proficient usage of master weapons (two handed swords, arbalest, flail, stiletto) should be reserved to a specialists.

 

Lets say a system where

Fighter gets one proficiency every 2 levels.

Wizard gets one proficency every 10 levels.

all other classes fits in range given, depends their flightiness.

Edited April 16, 2018 by gGeorg

[Boeroer]

 

I guess UI problems.

You changing your profile pic threw me for a loop.

Hehe - I made it yesterday as a sort of recreational activity and wanted to see how it looks as an avatar.

[Wormerine]

 

 

I guess UI problems.

You changing your profile pic threw me for a loop.

Hehe - I made it yesterday as a sort of recreational activity and wanted to see how it looks as an avatar.

Good! Finally you stopped wearing my first PCs face. ;-)

[Boeroer]

How could that be your first PC's face? I made that old one myself as well. With the overpower of the Gimp!

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Where is my lamp proficiency Obsidian? WHERE!?

 

 

Lanterns seem to be classified as small shields, and sickles classified as hatchets (you can generate Lantern shields and Sickle hatchets with the console in the current beta, though both have a lot of missing strings).

[Wormerine]

How could that be your first PC's face? I made that old one myself as well. With the overpower of the Gimp!

Not shaving for a bit, doesn't hide the stolen face. 

[Boeroer]

Hey - I also altered tha skin tone! With the overpower of... THE GIMP!

[Boeroer]

@Wormerine: the new avatar is just a vector-based impression of the old pixel-based one. So basically it's still your first PC's face.

[Yosharian]

KDub I think the argument is not necessarily how it performs, though Penetration may be an issue, but how it feels.

 

It doesn't 'feel' uber if you run a Devoted monk and you can't even select Fist as your chosen weapon.