Request: Non-binary player character

[Lord_Mord]

 

Fiction should reflect the real world

 

Should it?

[ThatUndeadLegacy]

 

 

Fiction should reflect the real world

 

Should it?

 

No, that restricts creative freedom. it can be if they want it to be, but should it be? no.

Edited September 7, 2017 by ThatUndeadLegacy

[CaesarCzech]

 

 

 

Fiction should reflect the real world

 

Should it?

 

No, that restricts creative freedom. it can be if they want it to be, but should it be? no.

 

 

Fiction is not obliged to reflect real world and neither is it Obliged to  not reflect real world.

[MortyTheGobbo]

Fiction reflects the real world, whether we like it or not. Even if it's fantasy, it's written by real people for real people.

[ThatUndeadLegacy]

Fiction reflects the real world, whether we like it or not. Even if it's fantasy, it's written by real people for real people.

it may reflect it but doesn't define it. 

[CaesarCzech]

I love the idea of non-binary characters in fiction. Fiction should reflect the real world, and imagine the narrative possibilities opened up by these folks unique perspective.

 

I am all for opening up customization options across the genders.

 

Look i know it can be hard on some people but companies are not obliged to represent you.  And point is there is always finite ammount of resources  and i dont think Obsidian has endless resources. Furthermore  look at the Gay and Lesbian representation, already the 7-8% percent of population gets significant representation(with some extremes such as bioware taking it to 50/50) Especially Compared to the Percentage of the General population.    What i want to say is that there are dimishing returns the lower the  percentage of the population, you essentially  use the resources such as time to create content for The smaller percentage of players and there are dimishing returns when it might not be worth it.

[CaesarCzech]

 

Fiction reflects the real world, whether we like it or not. Even if it's fantasy, it's written by real people for real people.

it may reflect it but doesn't define it. 

 

 

How could even fiction define real world ?  Fiction is not some reality warping book.

[MortyTheGobbo]

 

Fiction reflects the real world, whether we like it or not. Even if it's fantasy, it's written by real people for real people.

it may reflect it but doesn't define it. 

 

 

May you point me to where I suggested it does? Also, while you're at it, explain how it's relevant.

[CaesarCzech]

 

 

Fiction reflects the real world, whether we like it or not. Even if it's fantasy, it's written by real people for real people.

it may reflect it but doesn't define it. 

 

 

May you point me to where I suggested it does? Also, while you're at it, explain how it's relevant.

 

 

i think He meant   It Isnt defined by it. And that would also be relevant

[injurai]

If I was working on a completely fictional world, I'd go pretty far to create strange new identities and new political and social conflicts that perhaps mirror tensions but where cut across orthogonal ideologies and lines. I'd find that far more compelling. It'd be a look at human nature more than being an idealogical piece of work. I find Pillars actually does this to a large extent and far more so than most other games. Or at least is realizes it better, which is both a testament to the team and this style of game.

 

That said, if you represent certain "__"-normative aspects of life, identity, politics, then you will certainly invoke a reaction from people who find themselves unrepresented in that world. Because they won't really be able to enjoy all the other narrative elements when lack of inclusion becomes the main focus to their perspective. I think an industry that had be representation across the board would be a boon for creative design because then people can come into it with a less cynical perspective. We might already be their statistically speaking if you count the last 5 years of game development, but polarization and mentalities are in tension, so that aspect has to heal too.

Edited September 7, 2017 by injurai

[grumpymoose]

Hm, how will this apply to a character imported from PoE? There are only two options there. I think there's more to consider than just an implementation at a base. I have no opinion as to whether such options belong, or not. My opinion is solely focused on how such a thing would fit in if present. More to the point, my opinion is along the lines of, "Whatever they decide is fine, as long as the implementation is sensible, well thought out and enjoyable."

 

The presence or lack thereof will not make or break the game for me either way.

[Lord_Mord]

 

Fiction reflects the real world, whether we like it or not. Even if it's fantasy, it's written by real people for real people.

 

But it does not have to.

 

 

Look i know it can be hard on some people but companies are not obliged to represent you.  And point is there is always finite ammount of resources  and i dont think Obsidian has endless resources. Furthermore  look at the Gay and Lesbian representation, already the 7-8% percent of population gets significant representation(with some extremes such as bioware taking it to 50/50) Especially Compared to the Percentage of the General population.    What i want to say is that there are dimishing returns the lower the  percentage of the population, you essentially  use the resources such as time to create content for The smaller percentage of players and there are dimishing returns when it might not be worth it.

 

Don't be afraid. You are the norm. You are per-fect-ly normal. I can assure you. It is statistically proven.

[lautasantenni]

[CaesarCzech]

 

 

Fiction reflects the real world, whether we like it or not. Even if it's fantasy, it's written by real people for real people.

 

But it does not have to.

 

 

Look i know it can be hard on some people but companies are not obliged to represent you.  And point is there is always finite ammount of resources  and i dont think Obsidian has endless resources. Furthermore  look at the Gay and Lesbian representation, already the 7-8% percent of population gets significant representation(with some extremes such as bioware taking it to 50/50) Especially Compared to the Percentage of the General population.    What i want to say is that there are dimishing returns the lower the  percentage of the population, you essentially  use the resources such as time to create content for The smaller percentage of players and there are dimishing returns when it might not be worth it.

 

Don't be afraid. You are the norm. You are per-fect-ly normal. I can assure you. It is statistically proven.

 

 

Nice attempt to dismiss my argument and imply that im somehow afraid of LGBT people. Im familiar with this type of character assasination

[MortyTheGobbo]

 

 

Fiction reflects the real world, whether we like it or not. Even if it's fantasy, it's written by real people for real people.

 

But it does not have to.

 

 

"Having to" doesn't enter into it. It just does, whether we want to make a particular point or not.

[Amentep]

Look i know it can be hard on some people but companies are not obliged to represent you.

Arguably they're not required to not choose to represent any particular group of people either. I'd hope that whatever characters Obsidian creates fits the setting, and fits the character they want to create and ultimately works as an interesting character in game.

[Gfted1]

And there it is, like a warm jacket: "Wont someone think of the zots!?"

 

 

Hopefully, the developers have a better gauge of what and where to spend their efforts.
 

[CaesarCzech]

 

Look i know it can be hard on some people but companies are not obliged to represent you.

Arguably they're not required to not choose to represent any particular group of people either. I'd hope that whatever characters Obsidian creates fits the setting, and fits the character they want to create and ultimately works as an interesting character in game.

 

 

Yep i prefer quality over representation. A merit of the writing over diversity of it.

[Lord_Mord]

 

Nice attempt to dismiss my argument and imply that im somehow afraid of LGBT people. Im familiar with this type of character assasination

 

Your argument is, that 7-8% percent or whatever numbers you pciked out your nose of all people are gay or something. So they should not be included, because that would be unfair towards, ... i dont know ... heteerosexual people or other minorites or something. Your "argument" is totally invalid.

 

- First: because heterosexual people and other minorities are already included in the game.

- Second: because the only thing that can be concluded from your blablabla is that 7% of all characters in the game should be gay or something

- Third: because this isn't about including something that would exclude others, or would lead to a more demands  from excluded others. What possible gender options could there be besides he, she and it/them?

- Fourth: The percentage of stupid ****tards like you is below 1%. The returns ... diminishing ... bla bla bal

 

Please excuse me bad english and shallow argumentation. You didn't take the time to check your "argument" for spelling errors, so as writing english is not easy for me, I thought I could spare the thinking.

[DexGames]

These threads 

LOL

[Amentep]

Gentle reminder - discuss the issue, not each other. 

[CaesarCzech]

 

 

Nice attempt to dismiss my argument and imply that im somehow afraid of LGBT people. Im familiar with this type of character assasination

 

Your argument is, that 7-8% percent or whatever numbers you pciked out your nose of all people are gay or something. So they should not be included, because that would be unfair towards, ... i dont know ... heteerosexual people or other minorites or something. Your "argument" is totally invalid.

 

- First: because heterosexual people and other minorities are already included in the game.

- Second: because the only thing that can be concluded from your blablabla is that 7% of all characters in the game should be gay or something

- Third: because this isn't about including something that would exclude others, or would lead to a more demands  from excluded others. What possible gender options could there be besides he, she and it/them?

- Fourth: The percentage of stupid ****tards like you is below 1%. The returns ... diminishing ... bla bla bal

 

Please excuse me bad english and shallow argumentation. You didn't take the time to check your "argument" for spelling errors, so as writing english is not easy for me, I thought I could spare the thinking.

 

 

Okay i be blunt.

You Want to Make Content for Lesser Percentage of Players, Rather than Higher Percentage of Players.   Its Not Economic in Terms of Time and resources.  - First: because heterosexual people and other minorities are already included in the game. - You seem desilusional in this one. Second: because the only thing that can be concluded from your blablabla is that 7% of all characters in the game should be gay or something- Purposeful Misinpretation, i said that because 7% of Population is LGBT that Doesnt Mean they should get 50% of Content Like its in Bioware Games.  - Third: because this isn't about including something that would exclude others, or would lead to a more demands  from excluded others. What possible gender options could there be besides he, she and it/them?-   So you want Gender opinion to which character wont reacts ?  Or you want Extra work to be spent on this so its More than Bull**** Pronoun Issue ?

- Fourth: The percentage of stupid ****tards like you is below 1%. The returns ... diminishing ... bla bla bal -  Its bla bla bla not bla bla bal.

Also  Insulting me because i dont agree with you ? Saying that percentage of people that Dont think We have to Pander is less than 1% is frankly innacurate. You know the whole silent majority in American election.

[teknoman2]

i'd say they should just follow the first game's approach on this: no romance whatsoever. if there are no options in the game to act upon your sexual orientation, you can assign whatever letter of the alphabet you want to the gender.

[Lord_Mord]

 

You seem desilusional in this one.

 

You have black people in it and they are completely equal. You have at least a lesbian. Not shure about the sexual orientation of other characters. I don't give much attention to those things. You have different degrees of equality between man and woman depending on the cultural background. Not to mention all those things that are hidden between the lines.

 

because 7% of Population is LGBT that Doesnt Mean they should get 50% of Content Like its in Bioware Games

 

Noone asked for that. This thread is just for a third gender option. A variable. Nothing more. We are not even talking about representation here.

 

 

So you want Gender opinion to which character wont reacts ?  Or you want Extra work to be spent on this so its More than Bull**** Pronoun Issue ?

 

It does not make much sense that anyone would react to it. So it's mostly about pronouns, a thing that is already implemented for male and female and just has to be expanded by a third variable. This is not like romance options which take an enormous amount of work that could be spent better in my opinion.

 

 

You know the whole silent majority in American election.

 

Muhaha! White, sexist, homophobic people are a silent minority. Of course. In Germany we have a term for that kind of talk. Don't know, if it's internationally used. We call it Mimimi.

 

Silent minority...

 

We have such a silent minority here (again). Silently they are shouting in the streets: "Deutschland den Deutschen!". Silently they are burning asylums for refugees. Silently they are stating on TV, that Hitler wasn't that bad and we were a victim of the allied forces. And just like you did, they claim to represent all the other good white people.

 

 

Nice attempt to dismiss my argument and imply that im somehow afraid of LGBT people. Im familiar with this type of character assasination

 

So why are you so keen on proving that 7% is not a high enough number of people to consider that option? Why are you so keen on proving that you are part of the "normal" people? Oh, and I dont assasinate your character, I question your intentions. That's different.

 

Besides: Your argumentation would finally lead to kick out every minority from the game. Would be a fun game. No black people. No Orlans, Glanfathians or Amaua as they are representing other cultures or even majorities (How disgusting). No quest for Aloth. Pallegina wouldn't even be there. Just brave and honest white people killing goblins. Would that be to your taste? Maybe you should try Diablo.

 

 

What i want to say is that there are dimishing returns the lower the  percentage of the population, you essentially  use the resources such as time to create content for The smaller percentage of players and there are dimishing returns when it might not be worth it.

 

How do you come to that conclusion? Do you really think, that there are much people like you, that wouldn't buy that game, just because of a gender variable? (Funny, sometimes you claim to be the minority, sometimes not). It's a role playing game. I for one would think it's funny to play as it or they. I also think it would be funny to play as a gay person. In the current PoE this would not even make a difference as the only spot in the game where it would affect my decisions is the Salty Mast, which is kind of pointless. So you can count me to that 7% in regards of returns. Not to mention all those sensible people out there that don't give a ****.

 

 

Why do you even bother? No one tries to take away things from you. We are not talking about a considerable amount of development time, believe me, I know what I am talking about. I can't get rid of the feeling that all you are trying to do, is taking away things from others.

[CaesarCzech]

 

 

You seem desilusional in this one.

 

You have black people in it and they are completely equal. You have at least a lesbian. Not shure about the sexual orientation of other characters. I don't give much attention to those things. You have different degrees of equality between man and woman depending on the cultural background. Not to mention all those things that are hidden between the lines.

 

because 7% of Population is LGBT that Doesnt Mean they should get 50% of Content Like its in Bioware Games

 

Noone asked for that. This thread is just for a third gender option. A variable. Nothing more. We are not even talking about representation here.

 

 

So you want Gender opinion to which character wont reacts ?  Or you want Extra work to be spent on this so its More than Bull**** Pronoun Issue ?

 

It does not make much sense that anyone would react to it. So it's mostly about pronouns, a thing that is already implemented for male and female and just has to be expanded by a third variable. This is not like romance options which take an enormous amount of work that could be spent better in my opinion.

 

 

You know the whole silent majority in American election.

 

Muhaha! White, sexist, homophobic people are a silent minority. Of course. In Germany we have a term for that kind of talk. Don't know, if it's internationally used. We call it Mimimi.

 

Silent minority...

 

We have such a silent minority here (again). Silently they are shouting in the streets: "Deutschland den Deutschen!". Silently they are burning asylums for refugees. Silently they are stating on TV, that Hitler wasn't that bad and we were a victim of the allied forces. And just like you did, they claim to represent all the other good white people.

 

 

Nice attempt to dismiss my argument and imply that im somehow afraid of LGBT people. Im familiar with this type of character assasination

 

So why are you so keen on proving that 7% is not a high enough number of people to consider that option? Why are you so keen on proving that you are part of the "normal" people? Oh, and I dont assasinate your character, I question your intentions. That's different.

 

Besides: Your argumentation would finally lead to kick out every minority from the game. Would be a fun game. No black people. No Orlans, Glanfathians or Amaua as they are representing other cultures or even majorities (How disgusting). No quest for Aloth. Pallegina wouldn't even be there. Just brave and honest white people killing goblins. Would that be to your taste? Maybe you should try Diablo.

 

 

What i want to say is that there are dimishing returns the lower the  percentage of the population, you essentially  use the resources such as time to create content for The smaller percentage of players and there are dimishing returns when it might not be worth it.

 

How do you come to that conclusion? Do you really think, that there are much people like you, that wouldn't buy that game, just because of a gender variable? (Funny, sometimes you claim to be the minority, sometimes not). It's a role playing game. I for one would think it's funny to play as it or they. I also think it would be funny to play as a gay person. In the current PoE this would not even make a difference as the only spot in the game where it would affect my decisions is the Salty Mast, which is kind of pointless. So you can count me to that 7% in regards of returns. Not to mention all those sensible people out there that don't give a ****.

 

 

Why do you even bother? No one tries to take away things from you. We are not talking about a considerable amount of development time, believe me, I know what I am talking about. I can't get rid of the feeling that all you are trying to do, is taking away things from others.

 

 

Muhaha! White, sexist, homophobic people are a silent minority. Of course. In Germany we have a term for that kind of talk. Don't know, if it's internationally used. We call it Mimimi.       I think its quite Telling how you Mention the Race,  homophoby and sexist doesnt exist in black people ?

Silent minority...

 

We have such a silent minority here (again). Silently they are shouting in the streets: "Deutschland den Deutschen!". Silently they are burning asylums for refugees. Silently they are stating on TV, that Hitler wasn't that bad and we were a victim of the allied forces. And just like you did, they claim to represent all the other good white people.   - Oh so you use Nazis as a way to discredit everyone on the right side.

 

 

So why are you so keen on proving that 7% is not a high enough number of people to consider that option? Why are you so keen on proving that you are part of the "normal" people? Oh, and I dont assasinate your character, I question your intentions. That's different.

 

Besides: Your argumentation would finally lead to kick out every minority from the game. Would be a fun game. No black people. No Orlans, Glanfathians or Amaua as they are representing other cultures or even majorities (How disgusting). No quest for Aloth. Pallegina wouldn't even be there. Just brave and honest white people killing goblins. Would that be to your taste? Maybe you should try Diablo.

 

This is biggest use of add absurdum. How is saying devs shouldnt waste time with pronoun bull**** wanting to remove every minority from game ?.

 

 

How do you come to that conclusion? Do you really think, that there are much people like you, that wouldn't buy that game, just because of a gender variable? (Funny, sometimes you claim to be the minority, sometimes not). It's a role playing game. I for one would think it's funny to play as it or they. I also think it would be funny to play as a gay person. In the current PoE this would not even make a difference as the only spot in the game where it would affect my decisions is the Salty Mast, which is kind of pointless. So you can count me to that 7% in regards of returns. Not to mention all those sensible people out there that don't give a ****.

 

 

Why do you even bother? No one tries to take away things from you. We are not talking about a considerable amount of development time, believe me, I know what I am talking about. I can't get rid of the feeling that all you are trying to do, is taking away things from others.

 

I dont think Devs should waste time with bull****, simply as that. And no im not asking Something to be removed, Im just questioning the Wisdom of even working on that. 

 

And this part

 

 

It does not make much sense that anyone would react to it. So it's mostly about pronouns, a thing that is already implemented for male and female and just has to be expanded by a third variable. This is not like romance options which take an enormous amount of work that could be spent better in my opinion.

 

So you are saying Pronouns are more important than romances ?  Also how would Even Npcs know your pronouns ? Do You Intend to Shout it from Rooftop so to speak ?  Or Are the Npcs magically going to know your pronouns ?

Edited September 8, 2017 by CaesarCzech