Pathfinder Adventures Dev Q&A Stream this Wednesday 6/7/17

[Yewstance]

The stream's finished? As a result of timezones and work hours, I've been unable to catch any of it; could anyone write up the cliff notes on it? Unless there'll be a blog covering it anyway.

 

Solely from the term alone, Pathfinder Ambassador implies to me some kind of bonus for pre-existing mobile players, presumably for those whom have already unlocked the content that will be 'bundled in' by default in the PC version either by purchasing the RotR bundle through microtransactions or in-game gold. Similar to the Nintendo/3DS Ambassador program given out for 3DS early adopters, before the global price drop.

 

If that is the case, that sounds like an EXCELLENT compromise (one that I'd considered the potential of myself, given my experience with the 3DS ambassador program), assuming the rewards/bonuses are sufficiently pleasing. A rune to increase gold gain permanently? An exclusive character-alt? New players could presumably just install the mobile version and buy the bundle there after getting the PC version if they felt left out.
 

Of course, I'm snowballing ideas here based on literally a 2-word phrase brought up in a stream I didn't watch, so I'm likely making a fool of myself.

[WotanAnubis]

The stream's finished? As a result of timezones and work hours, I've been unable to catch any of it; could anyone write up the cliff notes on it? Unless there'll be a blog covering it anyway.

 

I don't really intend to summarize a 40-minute video, because I wouldn't know where to start and as someone who hasn't played Pathfinder don't know what's particularly relevant.

 

But you can watch the video here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/150267657

[Hannibal_PJV]

The Goblin stuff is/will be avesome! Thanks for that in advance. I so much would like to burn down the town and cook some longshanks in a big caultron. And ofcourse I wanna burn some books too!

[Hannibal_PJV]

Short summary from the video

- Next there will be PC versio

- Stash is there and your new treasure cards goes to Virtual wanna be stash.

- You have to buy the PC version

- But there is somekind of Pathfinder ambassador system based on gold and money you have used in Mobile version to compensate. More of that next week.

- The quest mode goes out next week

- The Goblin stuff is not in the PC release, but comes as a separate release. Soon tm.

- Obsidian edition includes the alts and treasures and some special extra content

- if PC version sells millions of copies there is a chance of new content

- New goblins Are A consept for new characters. The dev use them as a proof of consept how much time it takes to make new characters to the game. So if PC version sells a lot there may be more, but that information is classified and They have to kill you now if you know this staff They did not catually say so, but They did say that They can not reveal new plans yet. Only that They now know how much work it takes to make new characters. And that there will be new information about new content. Soone TM.

- you can combine your pc and mobile accounts by using a code. Don't play with different platforms at the same time or you Are in big trouble... huge discontinue errors

- there will be huge list of corrected bugs for the next release.

- New Goblin stuff is Runelords adventure, but from the Goblins point of view. There will be new super Villains like horses and longshanks to be worried about. (Cool stuff )

- and the dev team will be back...

- the multiplayer is not coming in short time period. It is something that They want to do, but it is not ready and there has not been green light to start the proses of making it yet.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Hannibal_PJV

[DrDior]

Short summary from the video

- Next there will be PC versio

- Stash is there and your new treasure cards goes to Virtual wanna be stash.

- You have to buy the PC version

- But there is somekind of Pathfinder ambassador system based on gold and money you have used in Mobile version to compensate. More of that next week.

- The quest mode goes out next week

- The Goblin stuff is not in the PC release, but comes as a separate release. Soon tm.

- Obsidian edition includes the alts and treasures and some special extra content

- if PC version sells millions of copies there is a chance of new content

- New goblins Are A consept for new characters. The dev use them as a proof of consept how much time it takes to make new characters to the game. So if PC version sells a lot there may be more, but that information is classified and They have to kill you now if you know this staff They did not catually say so, but They did say that They can not reveal new plans yet. Only that They now know how much work it takes to make new characters. And that there will be new information about new content. Soone TM.

- you can combine your pc and mobile accounts by using a code. Don't play with different platforms at the same time or you Are in big trouble... huge discontinue errors

- there will be huge list of corrected bugs for the next release.

- New Goblin stuff is Runelords adventure, but from the Goblins point of view. There will be new super Villains like horses and longshanks to be worried about. (Cool stuff )

- and the dev team will be back...

 

All sounds good to me.  Strange that nothing was said about multi-player.   That would give the game a whole new dimension.

[Ethics Gradient]

All sounds good to me.  Strange that nothing was said about multi-player.   That would give the game a whole new dimension.

 

It was mentioned very briefly.  The key points were:

- It was/is hard to find a way to do multiplayer that would fit the game well.  They may need to simplify some of the rules and features to find a way to make asynchronous gameplay manageable.

- If Pathfinder Adventures sells a million copies on steam, they totally promise they'll add multiplayer!  

Edited June 8, 2017 by Ethics Gradient

[Slide87]

but the mobile version will be updated as usual(even if it will work in a different way PC version works)?

[Hannibal_PJV]

The dev did say that They try to keep all versions as similar as possible (otherwice the crossplatform binding would not work!)

I would personally be vaurioista when new update arrives. We know that for example Apple store and google store updates does not arrive exactly at the same time. So it may be easiest to wait Until the same patch has arrived to all platforms that you Are using. In most cases it ay be no problem at all, depending on how massive the changes Are. Normal bug fixes should be quite easy.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Hannibal_PJV

[helldraco]

So, basically, the long awaited PC version is coming and they screwing the game by removing the Quest Mode.

 

The fun part of the game, the one you can play for hours thanks to the renewal of the objectives/ennemies/restrictions is being shut down.

 

How can someone possibly think this is a good idea ? Seriously, now there's only the story mode. Who's gonna play the same thing over and over ? Why would play something over and over ?

 

Heck, with the must buy option on PC (and everything unlocked), what's the point of the game without multiplayer ?

 

 

Do you guys have a vision of your project ? You were on a track for years and now you're going on a totally different track ... what are you thinking ?!?

 

To say i'm utterly disappointed is an understatement. To me, you just killed the game. :'(

[Musaab]

They said that quest mode was causing bugs with the normal mode and that they didn't have the resources to maintain quest mode.  I agree with you that quest mode is really great thanks to the randomness of it, basically making the game endless.  Let's hope the game sells well, so they can expand the team and keep adding content.  I don't think they are making enough at the moment.  We could also help by recommending the game in more places...so many people haven't heard of it.

[PinkRose]

Just as an alternative view, I have played Quest mode only up to a level 6 character. Really just to check it out.

I've played Story, over and over and over. As a Tester, I've played Brigandoom A LOT!!! Still a great game, completed multiple times. 

I am hopeful that the removal of Quest mode means they can focus on more official content and don't have to chase bugs.

Sorry you are losing Quest mode, but it is possible to enjoy the game without it.

[Hannibal_PJV]

I personally think that quest mode would work better as a separate app. It is very true that it caused a lot of problems is the story mode, so separate app with quest mode and nothing else could be solution, but even that would require more work force than They have now... so not likely to happen but I really hope that it will come back after the Rice of the Runelords have sold millions of copies that may allow the multiplayer and even some new content to Runelords.

[DrDior]

I always thought that quest mode would be an attractive match to multiplayer.  Just my opinion.  Possible to even create head to head matches.

[Ripe]

Well, for multiplayer to work they need to handle it the way Paizo handle Organized play (which IS multiplayer for physical game!)... and for that they need to introduce Class decks.

 

As for Story vs. Quest mode... I actually prefer Story because it's a lot less grinding there. Quest mode is just constant repeating of same 5-6 scenario setups untill you get to add a new tier od cards where you get to repeat another set of same 5-6 scenario setups. Difference is, in Story mode you get to add new tier much faster (5 scenarios won as opposed to 15-20). 

[cartmanbeck]

Well, for multiplayer to work they need to handle it the way Paizo handle Organized play (which IS multiplayer for physical game!)... and for that they need to introduce Class decks.

 

As for Story vs. Quest mode... I actually prefer Story because it's a lot less grinding there. Quest mode is just constant repeating of same 5-6 scenario setups untill you get to add a new tier od cards where you get to repeat another set of same 5-6 scenario setups. Difference is, in Story mode you get to add new tier much faster (5 scenarios won as opposed to 15-20). 

I don't see why you'd think this is the case... there's really no reason they'd need to introduce class decks in order for you to have characters play in an asynchronous way... they could do it with their current cards and mechanics.

[Ripe]

 

Well, for multiplayer to work they need to handle it the way Paizo handle Organized play (which IS multiplayer for physical game!)... and for that they need to introduce Class decks.

 

As for Story vs. Quest mode... I actually prefer Story because it's a lot less grinding there. Quest mode is just constant repeating of same 5-6 scenario setups untill you get to add a new tier od cards where you get to repeat another set of same 5-6 scenario setups. Difference is, in Story mode you get to add new tier much faster (5 scenarios won as opposed to 15-20). 

I don't see why you'd think this is the case... there's really no reason they'd need to introduce class decks in order for you to have characters play in an asynchronous way... they could do it with their current cards and mechanics.

 

Because timing of WHEN someone play something is only one of the problems with Pathfinder multiplayer... and it's not even the biggest one.

 

Card pool available for deck construction AND play is the main issue, same as with Organized play. Paizo handled that issue with Class decks and I can't see a way Obsidian can do it without them.

[Yewstance]

 

Because timing of WHEN someone play something is only one of the problems with Pathfinder multiplayer... and it's not even the biggest one.

 

Card pool available for deck construction AND play is the main issue, same as with Organized play. Paizo handled that issue with Class decks and I can't see a way Obsidian can do it without them.

 

 

That seems a very narrow view. There are a great deal of ways to work around it.

 

For example, look at the (soon-to-be defunct) Quest Mode. It gave you a 'level' based on your number of feats/rewards, and sorted a party into a "Tier"/Adventure Deck based on the highest level/tier amongst the group.

 

Even without Quest Mode, you can still categorize progression by the count of how many feats they have (thankfully, we don't have to worry about the "gaining extra feats mid-scenario" as some other sets outside of RotR do), and/or limit deckbuilding to a specific adventure deck. Oh you are playing scenario 4-X multiplayer? Then you must put your adventure deck 5 and 6 cards in the stash and replace them with basics, and you can't do it with a character that has X feats.

 

Of course...

 

More realistically, they don't need a limitation on 'when' anyway. In the current setup you can use a finished character with loot and adventure deck 6 cards and all of the feats possible and use them to play alongside a brand new character on any scenario you wish. Multiplayer would likely maintain that - just don't restrict who you can/can't play with. If you want a challenge, then perhaps set your own custom limits (Feat count, adventure deck # of cards, even modifiers like wildcards), or just play with a friend who pre-agreed.

 

I don't really think that multiplayer is going to be seen in the foreseeable future. Honestly, I don't think I'd use it if it existed, either. But suggesting that Class Decks (and, by extension, organized play character sheets/tracking) are mandatory to have people play with each other for fun is nonsense.

 

As for card pool available for play - that's generated in the app AFTER the group have adjusted their decks anyway. And the idea of 'losing' cards from the card pool by players acquiring it isn't a concern at all in a digital version (though they may need to consider how they'll limit treasure cards when one or more players lack having unlocked them).

Edited June 13, 2017 by Yewstance

[Ripe]

It may be a "very narrow view" but you're the one missing the whole picture...

 

The problem is not how to add Multiplayer to the game, it's how to add it without causing issues with "main game" (which, like it or not is Story Mode). Quest Mode introduced a lot of ways it could be done, but Quest Mode also introduced so many issues and bugs (not just for itself but also for Story Mode) that Obsidian decided to scrap it completely and remove it before a Steam release.

 

Organized play (and Class Decks) are not mandatory to introduce Multiplayer but they are simplest and easiest solution, one that have least chance of introducing bugs that could make Story Mode unstable. Could it be done without it? Sure, but that also bring the risk of creating "another Quest Mode" with all it's problems and issues.

[Ethics Gradient]

Organized play (and Class Decks) are not mandatory to introduce Multiplayer but they are simplest and easiest solution, one that have least chance of introducing bugs that could make Story Mode unstable. Could it be done without it? Sure, but that also bring the risk of creating "another Quest Mode" with all it's problems and issues.

 

I'm not against the introduction of class decks to add more content to the game, but I'm not sure what problems they would solve regarding a multiplayer mode.  As the poster above noted, the way that decks are built from the vault there are a "nearly limitless" quantity of campaign cards, and a "technically unlimited" quantity of Blessings of the Gods. Class decks tried to help support organized play and pick-up games by segregating cards you own from the hosting base set.  There is no analogous concern in the digital app, the vault simply rebuilds itself before the next game.

 

Treasure cards are a concern, but they could either be turned off in multiplayer, or a system could be created to allow you to "keep" treasure cards you don't own.  The latter option seems like it could be abused, but looking forward with the PC version of the app, it honestly seems that the devs are less concerned about Treasure Chests being core to the revenue stream.

 

What is problematic for async multiplayer (synchronous too), is that there are still a few communication and gameplay issues to smooth over.  Multiplayer might be simpler if each player just did their thing independently of the other, but Pathfinder doesn't fit the "Words With Friends" gameplay model.  Figuring out how Player A can beat a check requesting a blessing assist from Player B and maybe having Player C volunteer to play a spell they were holding onto for emergencies it going to be rough.  Having a turn stalled-out because the person controlling Player B is in the shower (and you really need that blessing) won't be a lot of fun either.  If I recall correctly, the recent Pathfinder dev stream briefly glossed over that issue, stating that should multiplayer be implemented someday, maybe some rules would need to be modified or simplified to fit an async model.

 

The Quest Mode/Story Mode crossover bugs weren't all that terrible in reality.  However, they were catastrophic in that users couldn't do anything to resolve them and helpful cloud syncing only made things worse.

 

As one of the devs mentioned over here, when their small team had to chose between troubleshooting/developing quest mode or ensuring the core experience (story mode) was as seamless as possible, they chose to cut quest loose.