Planescape Torment random thread.

[kensu]

Creating a dumping ground for anyone who wants to talk about P:T, since I imagine a lot of people are replaying it now with the EE out.

 

Some things I noticed while playing through the original....

- It would certainly be interesting if a pack of Displacer Beasts attacked the Warrens of Thought. (Since Blink Dogs are the natural enemy of Displacer Beasts, I would assume Cranium or Moon Rats would be the natural enemy of Displacer Beasts)

- I remember reading that Curst was developed by a different team that hadn't seen any of the other area in the games. Look at the bartender, he's got the inn menu (including the four types of rooms), which I've seen nowhere else in the game! It's obvious the developers thought they were just making a Baldur's Gate level.

- Speaking about Moon Rats, why don't they show up in a video game? They could enslave Wererats too, they would take care of the rats during the time the moon is waning.

- I understand the thinking behind why TNO can't become a priest (it's possible that he became a god at one point, in any case he's lived long enough to piss off every god there is, so none will have him. I think this was mentioned in a Chris Avellone interview). But couldn't he have been a Druid? Mourns For Trees could have taught him.

- The way the Nameless One's class works is weird. It's like Dual-Classing, except you don't keep any of the abilities you gained when you're another class, and you can switch back and forth at will. That's like a Chuck Norris fact; The Nameless One can dual class back!

[kensu]

Has anyone else run into a problem where after combat ends you'll have one or more character start attacking other party members? I assumed this was them being Confused, but I was able to click on the character and take control of them, and that stopped it immediately, whereas in Baldur's Gate et al you can't take control of them.

For that matter, have you noticed there's no way of indicating status conditions in the game? I had assumed maybe there weren't any, until one of my characters inexplicably managed to put an enemy to sleep, and I saw the floating z's appear above their head. (I think Modron used some of his stun bolts). Your characters can also become fatigued, but the only way to know that is they begin bitching to you.

I suppose that's more realistic, but it's also kind of annoying.

[Messier-31]

Anyone? No? Fine.

 

I suggest sticking to one of these:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/92224-planescape-torment-ee/page-1

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83499-planescape-torment-is-pc-gamers-bestest-rpg-of-all-time/?hl=planescape

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/92596-planescape-torment-special-abilities-and-spells/ (edit: this one is also yours, mate)

 

Peace out.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Messier-31

[kensu]

Wow, I didn't even know they had sleeping portraits.

[Bartimaeus]

I didn't know that, either. Huh.

[Tigranes]

That's new to me too. 

 

It's a great experience to find new things in this game, like the first time you talk to the former companion now dead in one of the earlier areas (I think this is one most people know about now, but nevertheless). Or the whole cube business as you carry it half of the game. 

[Bartimaeus]

When I last played BG2 about a year ago (or something like that), I discovered that a random Shadow Thief in Trademeet held the Gloves of Missile Snaring. I knew that they existed from mucking around in the files, but figured (without checking) that weren't actually present anywhere in the game. It's an odd location for a unique magical item, too, because the character is only there for one encounter under very specific (and limited/fleeting) circumstances and immediately disappears after the first time you talk to them (and they automatically talk to you the moment they see you), you can't pickpocket them for it, you can't obtain them from them via dialogue/quest, and there's no reason to fight or kill them. So...a pair of unique and useful gloves that the vast majority of players probably didn't even know ever existed and had no realistic possibility of obtaining without already knowing they were there. Strange.

[algroth]

So here's a question I have about the way fiends are portrayed in the game, or in Planescape/D&D in general... I recall the game mentioning that fiends are born from the souls of supplicants who make their way to those planes once they die, based on the kind of sin/evil they committed and so on. So, for example, a promiscuous woman who tempted another into an evil deed would usually provide the base for a succubus. Is this right? If so, it's curious to think of who Grace may have been as a mortal and what she did to end up the way she has...

[kensu]

It's been a while since I've read the campaign setting, but the reborn souls you're talking about are petitioners. In general the heavies of the Outer Planes (devas, angels, demons, devils or whatever they were called in 2nd Edition) are natives who were born there, and not reborn souls. Petitioners are born as human or some human analog characters who are level 0 or 1 and can never advance beyond then. (Remember those disgusting Lemures? Those are petitioners).

Now that being said, P:T does have the strange case of Morte who is a petitioner, but who is able to gain experience and levels like a non-petitoner; but that may be due to the fact that petitioners aren't supposed to the leave the Outer Plane they were born on. (also the fact that a skull, while still on the pillar, has the knowledge of the entire pillar, so it's possible the experience is still filling in the vast reservoirs of potential left empty when TNO pulled him off the pillar)

[Bartimaeus]

From what I'm reading online, what you said is not quite correct, kensu. Lemures (and other fiends) are actually ex-petitioners who have sold their souls to become fiends themselves, perhaps (but not necessarily) to avoid a worse judgement (such as being determined to be False or Faithless). So, lemures are generally just the lowest/weakest manifestation of these petitioners-turned-demons, although those selling their souls do not necessarily always become lemures, and may become something stronger if they were once powerful. However, I am reading from third party sources here, which may not be correct...but it seems as though from everywhere I'm reading, lemures are definitely a specific type of fiend, and not some other spiritual manifestation.

 

So to get back to algroth's original question...uh, I'm not sure what the answer would be. I'm not sure if there's an "original" "subset" of fiends, so to speak, that were the first fiends, or if they were ALL originally mortals and the most powerful of them have just been slowly growing stronger over time, or what.

 

(e): I'm also a little confused on the matter of other immortals, then. Can other immortal races, like celestials, convert petitioners to become members of their own race? If not, how in the world do the celestials over hold back the forces of Hell and the Abyss after the Blood War ends, as their forces grow ever-stronger? Perhaps petitioners can become these immortal races depending on their alignment - chaotic evil petitioners to the Abyss, lawful evil to Hell, lawful good to celestials (or something), etc.? Or do these other types of immortal races just reproduce in a more normal fashion instead? I'm not really sure...

Edited June 8, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[algroth]

It's been a while since I've read the campaign setting, but the reborn souls you're talking about are petitioners. In general the heavies of the Outer Planes (devas, angels, demons, devils or whatever they were called in 2nd Edition) are natives who were born there, and not reborn souls. Petitioners are born as human or some human analog characters who are level 0 or 1 and can never advance beyond then. (Remember those disgusting Lemures? Those are petitioners).

Now that being said, P:T does have the strange case of Morte who is a petitioner, but who is able to gain experience and levels like a non-petitoner; but that may be due to the fact that petitioners aren't supposed to the leave the Outer Plane they were born on. (also the fact that a skull, while still on the pillar, has the knowledge of the entire pillar, so it's possible the experience is still filling in the vast reservoirs of potential left empty when TNO pulled him off the pillar)

 

Petitioner! That's the word, not supplicant. All the same I do recall reading the succubus example I mentioned above, though it well could be that the heavies were born there or have remained a constant since the existence of those planes. All the same, it's a curious thought for Grace if the case is thus.

[algroth]

I'm also a little confused on the matter of other immortals, then. Can other immortal races, like celestials, convert petitioners to become members of their own race? If not, how in the world do the celestials over hold back the forces of Hell and the Abyss after the Blood War ends, as their forces grow ever-stronger? Perhaps petitioners can become these immortal races depending on their alignment - chaotic evil petitioners to the Abyss, lawful evil to Hell, lawful good to celestials (or something), etc.? Or do these other types of immortal races just reproduce in a more normal fashion instead? I'm not really sure...

 

I reckon that the Blood War is something that has no end to it so long as either end of the allignment (LE/CE) exists. Again it might not be entirely accurate to the lore, but I've always assumed the Outer Planes as a manifestation of abstract objects and the likes, essentially a whole realm of ideas, ideology, morality and discourse given physical form, so in a sense, so long as there is belief of it or adherence to it in the multiverse, it exists or is manifested in some form or other in the Outer Planes as well.

Edited June 9, 2017 by algroth

[Bartimaeus]

It actually does end, when the Abyss was sent hurtling to the bottom of the planes in...4th or 5th edition*, I think. That's right about the time I stopped giving a crap about D&D.

 

*Yep, I looked it up just now: it's 4th edition, and I got it a little wrong: it's sent into the middle of the planes (the Inner Planes, specifically), underneath the elemental planes among a couple of other things like Limbo, where apparently the tanar'ri are more or less trapped. Kind of lame, if you ask me. The Blood War was such a big, and, in my opinion, rather interesting feature of planar warfare...gave the overall D&D setting a bit of an interesting twist compared to the typical "forces of good vs. forces of evil" shtick that everything else does.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[algroth]

It actually does end, when the Abyss was sent hurtling to the bottom of the planes in...4th or 5th edition*, I think. That's right about the time I stopped giving a crap about D&D.

 

*Yep, I looked it up just now: it's 4th edition, and I got it a little wrong: it's sent into the middle of the planes (the Inner Planes, specifically), underneath the elemental planes among a couple of other things like Limbo, where apparently the tanar'ri are more or less trapped. Kind of lame, if you ask me. The Blood War was such a big, and, in my opinion, rather interesting feature of planar warfare...gave the overall D&D setting a bit of an interesting twist compared to the typical "forces of good vs. forces of evil" shtick that everything else does.

I agree, that sounds like a terrible move. Though personally I like considering Torment and the rest of the games their own little individual takes on it, you get what you play right there. Also because I feel like the game at the very least uses the lore in a way that makes a lot of sense for its themes and so on, and which isn't just lore for lore's sake. I'm happy with still thinking of the Blood War as a neverending war.

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, that's my head canon, too.

[kensu]

Something fun to do for those fooling around with Infinity Engine editors. Change "Bless" so that it poisons everyone in the party, and turn the speakers up loud. It sounds like TNO and Fall From Grace are having sex.

[Bartimaeus]

Um...that's a...novel idea, but I think I'll have to pass, based on the description.

[SonicMage117]

I keep meaning to give the original a try BUT other games are coming and unfortunately they're not stopping. I will pick it up when it goes on a 75% sale though (probably soon) and post what I think. My wallet be hurtin yo.

[kensu]

I just noticed that when you talk to a Dabus, rebuses do really appear above their heads. This is true in both the EE and with the most common fix mods on the original version.

Did this happen in the unpatched game? Because I don't remember seeing this before...

I know in the unpatched versions that a large percentage of NPC barks were broken, so that might have taken this down too.

[Bartimaeus]

I...honestly can't recall that. Now I want to see...

[algroth]

I just noticed that when you talk to a Dabus, rebuses do really appear above their heads. This is true in both the EE and with the most common fix mods on the original version.

Did this happen in the unpatched game? Because I don't remember seeing this before...

I know in the unpatched versions that a large percentage of NPC barks were broken, so that might have taken this down too.

 

I had noticed that but it's been a while since I played the game unpatched. So I'm not sure.

Edited July 13, 2017 by algroth