About the Barbarian...

[Crille]

Ladies ladies Ranged Barbarian is where it's at! just think about it for a moment.

[Boeroer]

I did. And although this might be a troll's question, I'll answer still:

 

It's uneffective. Although Frenzy, Bloodlust and Blood Thirst also work with ranged weapons, it's still not good enough to make up for the loss of carnage. And you won't have dmg bonuses that you can use with ranged weapons (except Dangerous Implement and maybe Blooded when you're at 50% endurance and One Stands Alone once you get surrounded - not really convincing). You can achieve impressive rate of fire though.

 

Completed Raedric with the ultimate barb. Had to sneak around a bit.  Lvl 5 now. Going to Maerwald...

[Boeroer]

quick update: ulti-barb killed Maerwald at lvl 5 with the unexpected help of some beetles and is off to Defiance Bay...

Edited April 20, 2017 by Boeroer

[firkraag888]

+33% damage for the rogue? That's about the difference between an exceptional sabre (+50%) with 15 MIG (+15%) with Sneak Attack (+50 = +115% base) compared to One Stands Alone (= +85% base) with carnage (= +55% base only) I would guess.

 

Sabre's average base damage is 16. So the rogue hits a single target with 34.4 average and the barb hits the initial target for 29.6 avarage and the carnage targets for 24.8 average only.

 

Total damage to 5 enemies after 5 hits (without DR):

- rogue: 172

- barb: 768

 

The higher the DR the better for the rogue.

 

Fine sabre would be:

- rogue: 29.6

- barb: 24.8 initial / 20 carnage

 

Seem to be pretty near correct, those numbersLivegood188 used as mere examples. Actually they were slightly off in favor of the rogue. At least in a somewhat realistic scenario with auto-attacks.

What formula are you using for carnage damage ?

 

Carnage is done at negative 34%

Edited April 21, 2017 by firkraag888

[rheingold]

Barbarians are great, and so many ways to build them. They are quite gear dependent though, but fortunately there are some awesome weapons early on for them. They are actually a pretty solid choice even at low levels. A barbarian with Hours of St Rumbaldt or Tall grass is great. And both are available very early in the game. And at high level with Hof and dual wielding axes or sabres they are insane.

Also much of the difficulty in Pillars is related to the amount of mobs in the game. Having a barbarian in the game makes it much easier.

Having a barbarian and chanter is even better, they make a great combination. As does a cipher. Really turns the game into easy mode.

[Livegood118]

 

+33% damage for the rogue? That's about the difference between an exceptional sabre (+50%) with 15 MIG (+15%) with Sneak Attack (+50 = +115% base) compared to One Stands Alone (= +85% base) with carnage (= +55% base only) I would guess.

 

Sabre's average base damage is 16. So the rogue hits a single target with 34.4 average and the barb hits the initial target for 29.6 avarage and the carnage targets for 24.8 average only.

 

Total damage to 5 enemies after 5 hits (without DR):

- rogue: 172

- barb: 768

 

The higher the DR the better for the rogue.

 

Fine sabre would be:

- rogue: 29.6

- barb: 24.8 initial / 20 carnage

 

Seem to be pretty near correct, those numbersLivegood188 used as mere examples. Actually they were slightly off in favor of the rogue. At least in a somewhat realistic scenario with auto-attacks.

What formula are you using for carnage damage ?

 

Carnage is done at negative 34%

 

 

 

Carnage hits get a -34% damage malus, meaning -34% base damage.

 

In the case of a two handed weapon that has 14 – 20 base damage, this means your carnage hits will do between 4.76 – 6.8 (avg 5.78) less damage depending on your roll. An average non-carnage hit vs 0 DR without any damage modifiers and 10 might would be 17.

 

Now let's do an example where the Barb has a few levels on them and is specced for offence with Tidefall which is enchanted with a Lash:

 

Damage Modifier: +48% (26 Might) + 45% (Superb Weapon) + 20% (Savage Attack) +15% (Apprentice Sneak) + 20% (One Stands Alone) +15% (Two Handed Style) = 163% 

14 – 20 * 2.63 = 36.8 – 52.6 = 45 Average Modified Damage

Carnage hit = 14 – 20 * (2.63 -.34%) = 32 – 45.8 = 39 Average Modified Damage

 

Ordinary hit with lashes = 45 + (45*0.25) + (45*0.25*1.48) = 73 average damage vs 0 DR 

Carnage hit with lashes = 39 + (39*0.25) + (39*0.25*1.48) = 63 average damage vs 0 DR

 

If you want to factor in enemies' damage reduction subtract 1.25 DR from the final figures (e.g. Carnage hit vs 15 DR = 63 - 15*1.25 = 63 - 18.75 = 44.25)

 

As you can see in the end carnage hits don't do that much less damage than ordinary hits. Given they have +11 accuracy vs ordinary hits at level 16 with accurate carnage, you're going to be critting a lot with them too, which'll add an extra 11.2 – 16  physical damage on a Durganised Tidefall which will also lead to even more damage from your lashes!

Edited April 21, 2017 by Livegood118

[Boeroer]

 

What formula are you using for carnage damage ?

 

Carnage is done at negative 34%

 

I used -30% because I remembered wrongly. I don't think the numbers change significantly when using -34% instead:

 

Sabre's average base damage is 16.

So the rogue hits a single target with 34.4 average and the barb hits the initial target for 29.6 avarage and the carnage targets for 24.8 24.2 average only. 

 

Total damage to 5 enemies after 5 hits (without DR):

- rogue: 172

- barb: 768  753

 

Sorry for the wrong number - but it doesn't make much of a difference as you can see.

 

You have to keep in mind that the -34% is only -34% of weapon base damage, not overall damage. Thus, the malus doesn't hurt a lot after you get some other damage mods like exceptional, MIG, One Stands Alone, Blooded, Heart of Fury and crits.

[Boeroer]

Update: The ultimate barb is lvl 8 and just killed the Forgotten. Now I have two Frenzy uses per encounter. Off to Cail the Silent!

[Livegood118]

Update: The ultimate barb is lvl 8 and just killed the Forgotten. Now I have two Frenzy uses per encounter. Off to Cail the Silent!

 

What's going to be your strategy for Cail? Hours of St. Rumbalt Prones and Pray? Scrolls? Summons? All of the above?

[Boeroer]

Currently I'm using dual war hammers (Shatterstar + Haba's Hammer) I'm combination with Combusting Wounds and Firebrand. Since Firebrand and also Comb. Woumds don't work well against Cail I might enchant a single war hammer to beast slaying + best lash (I guess freeze). Of course I will also use +10 ACC from survival (only need 4 points for that). I did this with several enemies - like the spirits in the light house for example and the Adra Animat when collecting the pieces of the Engwythan Scepter. I could use Jarpie's War hammer for this (bought it in advance). Or maybe I should do the bounty with Drake's Bell first.

 

I have Blood Thirst. It's quite nice for massive scroll use once you brought the xaurips down in endurance. If one dies from a scroll you can cast the next with no recovery. I didn't use this yet but maybe I have to when meeting Cail.

 

I will try first with a parallel PotD savegame what approach works best. Maybe it's still too risky to fight and I have to sneak to Tidefall with Boots of Stealth and run away with Wild Sprint. The Forgotten where a bit too dangerous already for my taste. Only had 10 health left when the guy with the Sanguine Plate finally died. Those frickin wizards with their Fetid Caress + Necrotic Lance stuff I swear.

 

So far no split & pull. But smart positioning and using a pike when somebody weak stays in front of you while the tough guys can't reach you is very helpful. This made the phantoms in the Throne Room easy. I ignored the two shadows that blocked the doorway for me and used my pike + Combusting Wounds on the phantoms.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Eh... just 5 minutes ago I found out that Barbaric Blow works with ranged weapons. 

[Livegood118]

You need to get a better laptop so you can start making videos, at least in time for PoE 2 

[Boeroer]

I will!

 

In fact I'm buying one of these custom linux computers by the end of June. With an i7-7700K and a Nvidia GeForece GTX 1080. I guess it will cost me about 1,700 €, but at least that should do for the next years...

 

I tried to record something with Kazam while playing PoE a few days ago - but even at lowest settings (which I run anyways) and in light encounters with not much vfx it's a chore. I could lower the resolution though. Maybe I will do that for the later bounty/dragon fights, just to show how the barb holds up. But playing with lower resolution can be tricky, too (blurry, smaller fov and so on).

[Natures Bounty]

Update: The ultimate barb is lvl 8 and just killed the Forgotten. Now I have two Frenzy uses per encounter. Off to Cail the Silent!

 

Can you get the Forgotten Quest without picking up Pallegina? Is it sufficient to talk to her after the At all costs quest without picking her up?

[Boeroer]

Yes, that's sufficient. You can tell her "Not right now" or something like that and then go to the Vailian Embassy. I killed all official companions so far - I didn't know if killing Pallegina before going to Vincent Agosti would screw up the Forgotten - so I spared her. Until now...

 

I decided to do Heritage Hill before going to Cail. Should give me one more level - to be on the safe side. Heritage Hill is pretty easy at lvl 8. Only encounter that was tough (nearly went toes up) is the Banshee in the crypt (quest "Missing Setries"). And that's because of the constant terrifying so I can't hit sh!t without enough prayers against fear. Even with single exceptional/spirit  hammer. She also has a mean jab and kills summons very quickly...

 

If you ask yourself: "Why does he kill all companions?", well - he's a really mean barb, this one:

 

 

Booh!

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by Boeroer

[MortyTheGobbo]

I've had two barbarians in all my time playing Pillars. The first was an adventurer I tried to make into a tank, so I wouldn't have to take Eder everywhere. He didn't do too well. Mostly he couldn't withstand enemy fire very well, and dealt little damage. He did frighten and sicken enemies, but that just wasn't enough.

 

Then I got White March and recruited Maneha. She was a decent enough damage dealer. Heart of Fury does chew through mooks like popcorn. I kept her as a dual-wielder, since I hadn't used that style much before. It's a shame her 1st level pick is Frightening Yell... I feel like it loses value eventually.

[Boeroer]

Steamrolling the Dyrford area atm at lvl 9. Still no Cail... I'm a chicken. I don't really need Tidefall, maybe that's why I don't feel a deep desire to go there. The other thing that repells me is the fps breakdown in that cave.

 

I can confirm that Belt of the Berserker works with Sanguine Plate's Frenzy (Greater Frenzy does not). So all in all I could have three Frenzy uses per encounter for 18.3 each (= nearly a minute of Frenzy). Sadly, the two uses of the Sanguine Plate will overlap all the time because the first one will reduce deflection even further which will lead to another crit pretty soon. Still figuring out how to prevent the second one from triggering. Maybe switching to hammer + shield and drinking a potion of Mirrored Image after the first one triggers?

 

One approach that works amazingly well is to use two hammers in order to reduce enemies to a state where the next hit will most likely kill a foe in carnage range, then switch to Rumbalt or Tall Grass (have boh with dfferent lashes, preferably Rumbalt) or Firebrand. This will result in a lot of 0-recovery attacks with the heavier weapons because every hit usually means a kill (Blood Thirst + Bloodlust). This speeds up fights a lot while some foes already start to fall onto their bottoms because carnage is now nearly even with  auto attack accuracy (without Accurate Carnage). Death Godlike would be a good addition to this, but Battle Forged saved my a$$ so many times by now I don't regret picking it. At lvl 9 it already does 18 burn damage on normal hit (base). With Frenzy and stuff (no Scion of Flame yet) it does 25. A crit will do additional 14 damage, resulting in 25/39 burn damage on hit/crit. 

 

Maybe I will get a third weapon slot for Sura's Supper Plate and switch to it when I get disabled. Or I will completely switch to that setup. Two retaliations + Flame Shield + Battle Forged + Barbaric Retaliation in the late game should do good damage even when I'm sitting or snoring around. Retaliation also triggers Blood Thirst.

 

My tactics will be the follwing one I get Godansthunyr:

Cast Combusting Wounds on the enemies, jump into the fray with Dragon Leap, Frenzy will get triggered because I will receive a crit at once. Then I will trigger Heart of Fury with Godansthunyr in the offhand and Shatterstar in the right. This will most likely stun most enemies in HoF range (with 5 enemies I will have 5 chances on each foe to stun), then with the second strike I will cause crits with Shatterstar (annihilating + Doemenel), doing great damage. After this I will most likely have killed at least two foes. I will switch to Rumbalt and have Frenzy + Bloodlust (speeding my swings up) and most likely every swing will kill the last remaining foes, reducing recovery to zero. Even if not Frenzy + Bloodlust will help with hitting fast. If frenzy wears off before the encounter is done I will switch back to dual hammers. I think I will retrain and remove Two Weapon Style soon...

Edited April 23, 2017 by Boeroer

[Natures Bounty]

Steamrolling the Dyrford area atm at lvl 9. Still no Cail... I'm a chicken. I don't really need Tidefall, maybe that's why I don't feel a deep desire to go there. The other thing that repells me is the fps breakdown in that cave.

 

I can confirm that Belt of the Berserker works with Sanguine Plate's Frenzy (Greater Frenzy does not). So all in all I could have three Frenzy uses per encounter for 18.3 each (= nearly a minute of Frenzy). Sadly, the two uses of the Sanguine Plate will overlap all the time because the first one will reduce deflection even further which will lead to another crit pretty soon. Still figuring out how to prevent the second one from triggering. Maybe switching to hammer + shield and drinking a potion of Mirrored Image after the first one triggers?

 

One approach that works amazingly well is to use two hammers in order to reduce enemies to a state where the next hit will most likely kill a foe in carnage range, then switch to Rumbalt or Tall Grass (have boh with dfferent lashes, preferably Rumbalt) or Firebrand. This will result in a lot of 0-recovery attacks with the heavier weapons because every hit usually means a kill (Blood Thirst + Bloodlust). This speeds up fights a lot while some foes already start to fall onto their bottoms because carnage is now nearly even with  auto attack accuracy (without Accurate Carnage). Death Godlike would be a good addition to this, but Battle Forged saved my a$$ so many times by now I don't regret picking it. At lvl 9 it already does 18 burn damage on normal hit (base). With Frenzy and stuff (no Scion of Flame yet) it does 25. A crit will do additional 14 damage, resulting in 25/39 burn damage on hit/crit. 

 

Maybe I will get a third weapon slot for Sura's Supper Plate and switch to it when I get disabled. Or I will completely switch to that setup. Two retaliations + Flame Shield + Battle Forged + Barbaric Retaliation in the late game should do good damage even when I'm sitting or snoring around. Retaliation also triggers Blood Thirst.

 

My tactics will be the follwing one I get Godansthunyr:

Cast Combusting Wounds on the enemies, jump into the fray with Dragon Leap, Frenzy will get triggered because I will receive a crit at once. Then I will trigger Heart of Fury with Godansthunyr in the offhand and Shatterstar in the right. This will most likely stun most enemies in HoF range (with 5 enemies I will have 5 chances on each foe to stun), then with the second strike I will cause crits with Shatterstar (annihilating + Doemenel), doing great damage. After this I will most likely have killed at least two foes. I will switch to Rumbalt and have Frenzy + Bloodlust (speeding my swings up) and most likely every swing will kill the last remaining foes, reducing recovery to zero. Even if not Frenzy + Bloodlust will help with hitting fast. If frenzy wears off before the encounter is done I will switch back to dual hammers. I think I will retrain and remove Two Weapon Style soon...

 

And battle-forged used to work within the carnage AoE (geht hit by one foe, burn everyone around you). Does it still? 

If yes, I have not doubt that it is the optimal race for a solo barbarian, even with ToI on.

 

Do you plan to wear an item with second chance and take vengeful defeat? I thought it might synergize quite well with Battle-Forged because you wouldn't have to worry too much to stay below 50% endurance for longer periods. Because if you go down, you would again hurt everebody around you, plus revive with low endurance, so battle-forged would be on again.

It's a very risky strategy for an ultimate run, but possibly very powerful if you don't mind resting a bit more.

[Boeroer]

No, Battle Forged does no longer work with carnage. Retaliation items also worked like that back then. All sorts of retaliation got nerfed so it doesn't work with carnage and also doesn't generate focus.

 

Don't know if it's optimal, Moon Godlike would also be nice, even Pale Elf could be very nice (against Alpine Dragon for example). But all in all it's decent for a barb. Even more so for a monk.

 

Second Chance + Vengeful Defeat is a nice combo, but it only works once per rest (Second Chance got nerfed at some point from 1/encounter to 1/rest) and you have Knockout Injuries at ToI that you can't turn off. This annoys me the most. Of course second chance + Vengeful Defeat can be a life saver. Before you get up again you will deliver some nice blows that will raise the chances of your survival after you get back up. But so far, I didn't want to use this. I would rather put my points into Threatening Presence + Bloodlust and Blood Thirst which really make a strong combo with Rumbalt.

 

Later on I will use my dual hammers only for HoF (will remove Two Weapon Style and pick Vulnerable Attack) and then switch to Rumbalt I guess. At the moment it's: the more foes the better. He goes totally berserk at some point when enemies start dropping and slows down once the last two or three tough ones still stand.

 

Other alternative would be to stick to hammers and take Interrupting Blows + Mourning Gloves. Godansthunyr has 0.75 sec interrupts, Shatterstar has 1 sec. Maybe I don't need Rumbalt at all then. If I don't stun I will most likely interrupt for a good amount of time with each swing (and I will have 0 recovery). 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Boeroer

[firkraag888]

What are your battle tactics for boss fights? Eg dragons, bounties, ect

[Boeroer]

Scroll of Paralysis -> Potion of Flame Shield -> Combusting Wounds -> Dragon Leap -> Heart of Fury with Godanythunyr/Shatterstar -> Barbaric Blow -> switch to Rumbalt -> auto-attacks

 

Bounties with Vessels will obvioulsy be done with the Redeemer. Paralysis and Combusting Wounds don't work against certain bosses, so I will have to come up with something else. Tidefall with Beast Slayer enchantmetn could work well. Maybe I will retrain to Beast Slayer talent too once only the dragons are left (in the game). I will not try them before lvl 16.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Boeroer

[Munky_]

An obvious advantage would be having 10 free badass points from the get go.

[Kaylon]

You can replace paralysis scrolls with Abydon's Hammer once you get it, but of course it takes a weapon slot.

[Boeroer]

Yes, I forgot about that. Good point. "Losing" a weapon slot is ok. The Hammer is also an acceptable weapon for Blood Thirst + stuff right after HoF... I guess. I'm still not sure if I should get Arms Bearer. It can be very benefical to carry different weapons (with slayer enchantments) around for special encounters when there's more than one enemy "species". Atm I have a dual hammer set for every monster group. FOr example it was very benefical to enchant Haba's Hammer with freeze and Jarpie's Warhammer with shock and put primordial-slaying on them. The Dweller went really smooth after that. Before, when I tested it with the normal PoTD game, ist was a real chore at lvl 10 and way too risky. Funny how little changes (+5 ACC, + 25% damage and the right lashes) can have such a big impact.

[Kaylon]

Yes, a little bit here and there will end by making a big difference - when you solo optimization matters a lot and helps you push your character to the limit.